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Talk me into/out of building a Ford 9" steering axle

chaplinfj60 said:
so interesting thought. yes weight is an issue but common parts of 99-04 SD axle is there. and they are cheap on the FB, found two today for 250 each. lots of parts stores will have what you need.
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posford said:
I thought 99-04 was undesirable? I have a pair in a parts truck that I was uncertain whether I should pull them or not.
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I’ve been working 12-16 hr days lately so I’ve been doing nothing but weigh options and dream… :laughing:

The appeal of 9” (deep) gear selection is what prompted this post. I run lightweight but underpowered stuff and want crawl ratio without doubling or regearing t-cases. Deep gear selection seems cheaper and more robust long-term than any doubler. Around these parts it’s easy to find 5.89-7.00 gears cuz dirt track. The appeal of the 9” is:
Light
Ease of fabrication to axle (links, spring pads , whatever)
Wide and cheap gear selection
Ground clearance

I’m a cheap bastard (and have to be because of how I set up my life:homer:) but have the skills and tools to fabricate a hybrid axle good enough for a dedicated off-road vehicle and would be worth it to build once if ease of service and ease ofacquiring “consumable “ parts while away from home.
SD axles are an option and 100% what I’d run if building a V8 or full-size rig. 99-04 would likely be what I’d run as well, see my point about being cheap :laughing:
The strength of the newer SD axles is nice but would be wasted on anything I’m looking to build at the moment
 
IowaOffRoad said:
I’ve been working 12-16 hr days lately so I’ve been doing nothing but weigh options and dream… :laughing:

The appeal of 9” (deep) gear selection is what prompted this post. I run lightweight but underpowered stuff and want crawl ratio without doubling or regearing t-cases. Deep gear selection seems cheaper and more robust long-term than any doubler. Around these parts it’s easy to find 5.89-7.00 gears cuz dirt track. The appeal of the 9” is:
Light
Ease of fabrication to axle (links, spring pads , whatever)
Wide and cheap gear selection
Ground clearance

I’m a cheap bastard (and have to be because of how I set up my life:homer:) but have the skills and tools to fabricate a hybrid axle good enough for a dedicated off-road vehicle and would be worth it to build once if ease of service and ease ofacquiring “consumable “ parts while away from home.
SD axles are an option and 100% what I’d run if building a V8 or full-size rig. 99-04 would likely be what I’d run as well, see my point about being cheap :laughing:
The strength of the newer SD axles is nice but would be wasted on anything I’m looking to build at the moment
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Just do a trail gear housing with 99-04 cheap outers. Exactly what you want.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
i just read that the spline angle on ford is 45 and dana is 30 if i recall so there is that to worry about and i typed this then read the rest of the thread and bammmm someone beat me to it... hahah
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To clarify it a bit, see below.

IowaOffRoad said:
I think the problem with this is compatibility between the 9" 35sp and the Dana 44/35sp. I've never tried it, but somewhere on the interwebs I saw a breakdown of the differences between the type of splines (how they are formed) and why they aren't compatible even if they may fit together. Perhaps you know better than I regarding Ford/Dana spline compatibility?
IIRC the comparison was full float D60 rear vs full float 9" 35sp?
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Dana uses 30° press. angle
Ford (& some GM) OE axles use 45° press. angle
Most aftermarket larger spline Ford diffs will be 30° press. angle so they will be compatible with OE Dana shafts and most aftermarket shafts.

Just as an FYI, GM used 37.5° on the 14 bolt, so don't try to stuff a 14 bolt shaft in either a 30° or 45° diff.

AgitatedPancake said:
Mark Williams has done some stuff with 45* pressure angle so his 9” parts are specialty, but regular 35 spline 9” lockers work with dana style 35 spline shafts.
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Yep, AP is spot-on, if you see 45° press angle, it is most likely Mark Williams and it is fairly rare to see it in the off-road circles, the exception being was the Early Bronco crowd. Before aftermarket big bearing (3.25") 3rds became readily available, many EB peeps would use MWs 33 spline shafts and spool so they could go 33 spline in a small bearing (3.062") 9" 3rd. I was on the MW page and it doesn't look like they do the 33 spline stuff anymore.
 
Tech Tim said:
To clarify it a bit, see below.



Dana uses 30° press. angle
Ford (& some GM) OE axles use 45° press. angle
Most aftermarket larger spline Ford diffs will be 30° press. angle so they will be compatible with OE Dana shafts and most aftermarket shafts.

Just as an FYI, GM used 37.5° on the 14 bolt, so don't try to stuff a 14 bolt shaft in either a 30° or 45° diff.



Yep, AP is spot-on, if you see 45° press angle, it is most likely Mark Williams and it is fairly rare to see it in the off-road circles, the exception being was the Early Bronco crowd. Before aftermarket big bearing (3.25") 3rds became readily available, many EB peeps would use MWs 33 spline shafts and spool so they could go 33 spline in a small bearing (3.062") 9" 3rd. I was on the MW page and it doesn't look like they do the 33 spline stuff anymore.
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Now go post that shit in the axle spline tech thread. :flipoff2:
 
posford said:
I thought 99-04 was undesirable? I have a pair in a parts truck that I was uncertain whether I should pull them or not.
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The only reasons to run a 99-04 axle.
1. To run yukon lockouts (someone pointed out chromoly gears for 05+ lockouts Rcv makes but I have yet to hear about real world feedback)
2. To go to 5 or 6 lug outers can’t do that with 05+ stuff
3. You got it cheap and you can machine unit bearings yourself. Buy the time you buy unit bearings to run 35 spline shafts it’s more than an 05+ axle.

I’m running one because of reason 1,3
 
Rangerrod said:
The only reasons to run a 99-04 axle.
1. To run yukon lockouts (someone pointed out chromoly gears for 05+ lockouts Rcv makes but I have yet to hear about real world feedback)
2. To go to 5 or 6 lug outers can’t do that with 05+ stuff
3. You got it cheap and you can machine unit bearings yourself. Buy the time you buy unit bearings to run 35 spline shafts it’s more than an 05+ axle.

I’m running one because of reason 1,3
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Reason 4. You had it when it was the hot shit because the 05+ hot shit wasn’t the hot shit yet.

I’m not giving away what was $15K in race axles to upgrade to stock SD stuff. I have $6,300 bucks in “ultimate” unit bearings alone.
 
Rangerrod said:
The only reasons to run a 99-04 axle.
1. To run yukon lockouts (someone pointed out chromoly gears for 05+ lockouts Rcv makes but I have yet to hear about real world feedback)
2. To go to 5 or 6 lug outers can’t do that with 05+ stuff
3. You got it cheap and you can machine unit bearings yourself. Buy the time you buy unit bearings to run 35 spline shafts it’s more than an 05+ axle.

I’m running one because of reason 1,3
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I did a really brief search for manual hubs on the '05+ SD 60..... I got a bunch of hits back. Are they all shit (Warn apparently makes a set) or is Google giving me 99-04 results?

www.warn.com

Super Duty Locking Hub for Ford Super Duty - 35 Spline - 95060

This Warn Industries Locking Hub has 35 splines and is sold in pairs. Fits Ford - 2005-2024 - Super Duty (F-250/350/450/550).
www.warn.com

Nevermind....Warn does make 'em (as one example). For what I'm contemplating....I don't need Yukons...just something to disco the front end for better mileage.
 
Sean said:
I did a really brief search for manual hubs on the '05+ SD 60..... I got a bunch of hits back. Are they all shit (Warn apparently makes a set) or is Google giving me 99-04 results?

www.warn.com

Super Duty Locking Hub for Ford Super Duty - 35 Spline - 95060

This Warn Industries Locking Hub has 35 splines and is sold in pairs. Fits Ford - 2005-2024 - Super Duty (F-250/350/450/550).
www.warn.com

Nevermind....Warn does make 'em (as one example). For what I'm contemplating....I don't need Yukons...just something to disco the front end for better mileage.
Click to expand...
I have them on my work truck. I broke the factory hubs. Replaced them with the Warns. Haven’t broken one yet.
 
JR4X said:
I have them on my work truck. I broke the factory hubs. Replaced them with the Warns. Haven’t broken one yet.
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Yeah, this would just be going under the tow rig....not sure it'd be worth the outlay frankly.
 
fl0w3n said:
Curious why TG vs Ruff Stuff?
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I looked at RS....and the tech team told me the clearance was lower than what the TG team said. I went with TG and the quality and price were really good. Diamond would be my choice if ground clearance were the sole goal....I think it was another 1/4" better than the TG.
 
Didn’t realize you can get different tube diameter with the TG housing, that seems helpful if you wanted to use factory SD Cs
 
fl0w3n said:
Didn’t realize you can get different tube diameter with the TG housing, that seems helpful if you wanted to use factory SD Cs
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BKOR also sells factory Cs bored to 3.5" for fabbed housings.....$400 IIRC.

bustedknuckleoffroad.com

BKOR Cut Off 05+ Super Duty Inner C's Pair

These Inner Cs are perfect for building custom steering axles. They are bored to 3.5" so they easily accept tubing from most fabricated housings. These are used, and accept 2005+ super duty knuckles. Sold in pairs. Features BKOR Inner C's 3.5" ID Ball joint style Allows 1480 /1550 series...
bustedknuckleoffroad.com bustedknuckleoffroad.com
 
Sean said:
BKOR also sells factory Cs bored to 3.5" for fabbed housings.....$400 IIRC.

bustedknuckleoffroad.com

BKOR Cut Off 05+ Super Duty Inner C's Pair

These Inner Cs are perfect for building custom steering axles. They are bored to 3.5" so they easily accept tubing from most fabricated housings. These are used, and accept 2005+ super duty knuckles. Sold in pairs. Features BKOR Inner C's 3.5" ID Ball joint style Allows 1480 /1550 series...
bustedknuckleoffroad.com bustedknuckleoffroad.com
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Good to know
 
Bling.

I’m not in the market to build one, but if I was i would probably be doing it budget like everything else so I’d try chasing down the 2wd tube to cut Cs from.

I think I’d rather spend money on Reid knuckles to feel safer running down the highway. Do people actually break or bend factory Cs on 05+?
 
fl0w3n said:
Bling.

I’m not in the market to build one, but if I was i would probably be doing it budget like everything else so I’d try chasing down the 2wd tube to cut Cs from.

I think I’d rather spend money on Reid knuckles to feel safer running down the highway. Do people actually break or bend factory Cs on 05+?
Click to expand...

From what I've gathered, even bouncers rarely hurt the C's and knuckles on 05+ stuff. upper balljoints get bent/sheared occasionally but the rest seem pretty solid.

As far as the housing discussion, I haven't built any others so I can't talk to their quality, but i've enjoyed building ruffstuff 9"s. The pumpkin area is definitely larger than most. A negative in ground clearance and packaging in tight chassis, but I have confidence in their strength. I believe I've seen one person that sheared one of the 3.5" .375" axle tube, but that's all I've seen.

Also, for those not looking to bore the knuckles/tubes out, an alternate option - On one build I turned an ID sleeve out of kingpin D60 tube material (3.125" .500 wall) to interface between the tube in the 05+ knuckle, and the tube in the Ruffstuff housings with decent success. This one was narrowed about 4" on the long side to use a chevy 60 inner shaft at around 67" wms

IMG_1411.JPG


IMG_1413.JPG


IMG_1422.JPG
 
chaplinfj60 said:
jesus

it would be hard to buy a 1999-04 super duty right now when 06 is this cheap.
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Or king pin 60’s. I lol for real when people post a KP 60 for sale for a thousand bucks. Or twelve hundred bucks. Talk about about being out of touch with reality.

I got two pairs of 11+ SD axles with the rears with E lockers for $800 a pair.
 
My neck of the woods....$800 is the typical price for an 05+ SD60. Damn it!
 
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