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Talk me into/out of building a Ford 9" steering axle

YotaAtieToo said:
Trailtamer mentioned JL outters running 1410 ujoints :smokin:

I would like to find out where all the axles that failed at the CAD are going? Would be sweet to get them for scrap price.
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JL/JT outers can accept a 1410 U-joint, but they come with a 5-7166X ujoint from the factory.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Exactly, when a 40 year old oMG hIgH pInioN d44 is that much and every part is worn and or rusted out.
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Ford 9inch is going on 40 years old. Haha. Hell some dana 44s are newer.

Looks like his mind is made up, so build this shindig, curious about the ingredients honestly
 
I picked up a 9" with '70s D44 outers.

After breaking it down, realized it's gayer than aids, and sold it.

Build it 35 spline with 60 outers, everything but housing could be 'off the shelf'. or possibly the JL(?) If that's the new hotness.
 
Gravy said:
Ford 9inch is going on 40 years old. Haha. Hell some dana 44s are newer.

Looks like his mind is made up, so build this shindig, curious about the ingredients honestly
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Ya I know the 9" is an obsolete platform, and I know that custom inner axle shaft aren't quite "off the shelf"...
But, but... my area is littered with 6-7.00 gears for the 9", I'm looking at potential horsepower levels of nil to low, I want passenger drop, and I'm envious of all my Jeep friends with their unit-bearing D30s for trail servicing and ease of parts-store run fixes without having to carry a ton of parts. I'm intrigued by modding a 9" for D44 spiders as someone mentioned previously. I'm also curious if one of the companies who are making the side gears in the US would either hobb the gears for D44 30 spline or sell me blanks that I could take to a shop I know that could hobb them. Seems expensive, but if the cost was cheaper than 2 custom axle shafts I could build the rest out of discarded parts.

If going custom inner axles I'd probably use throw-away dodge CAD axles, if trying to make side gears to fit stock axles, probably junk snow plow D50 out of ford (one piece inner).

For justification of this "puny" "weak" axle by today's standards...
Not building a full-size rig (current rig weighs about 3400 without me, targeting new rig at 4000#), not wanting to run doublers/low t-case gears, not going to be handling V8 power but want to be able to run 37-38" tires. Current toy axles are getting kinda fragile with my driving style and 35s (yes I could fix one of those:homer:)
 
Gravy said:
No hate intended, and would like to see this creation.

Just giving reasons like rusty and 40 years old doesn't mean much when your building axles using rusty 40 year old parts.
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I do agree and think a stick housing is a gamble, but he mentioned new shafts either way.

If you look around and don't need spidetrax type housing, there are decent new 9" housings for very cheap.

With a 70s D44, my point was that you'll spend a lot just getting it run able that could go towards upgrades on something newer.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
What about JK/JL outers, with stock width 35 spline inners and stock (or chromo) stubs? Then you can run an off the shelf 35 spline 9" locker, and you're running off the shelf shafts made by a half dozen companies

Nitro Gear & Axle Jeep Wrangler Dana 44 Front Axle Upgrade Kit; 32/35-Spline AXN24119-35 (07-18 Jeep Wrangler JK Rubicon) - Free Shipping
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I think the problem with this is compatibility between the 9" 35sp and the Dana 44/35sp. I've never tried it, but somewhere on the interwebs I saw a breakdown of the differences between the type of splines (how they are formed) and why they aren't compatible even if they may fit together. Perhaps you know better than I regarding Ford/Dana spline compatibility?
IIRC the comparison was full float D60 rear vs full float 9" 35sp?
 
They’re compatible. Iirc most dana stuff is cut with a 30 degree pressure angle. Mark Williams has done some stuff with 45* pressure angle so his 9” parts are specialty, but regular 35 spline 9” lockers work with dana style 35 spline shafts.

My front axle on the wheeler is a kingpin 609 running 78-79 Ford 60 chromos
 
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Derail warning.
AgitatedPancake said:
They’re compatible. Iirc most dana stuff is cut with a 30 degree pressure angle. Mark Williams has done some stuff with 45* pressure angle so his 9” parts are specialty, but regular 35 spline 9” lockers work with dana style 35 spline shafts.

My front axle on the wheeler is a kingpin 609 running 78-79 Ford 60 chromos
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Mark Williams makes a 9" spool 35 spline with a 45 degree pressure angle. Sterling 10.25 / 10.5 rear axle shafts are 35 spline and 45 degree pressure angle. Compatible as well???
 
RustyC said:
Derail warning.

Mark Williams makes a 9" spool 35 spline with a 45 degree pressure angle. Sterling 10.25 / 10.5 rear axle shafts are 35 spline and 45 degree pressure angle. Compatible as well???
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I honestly don’t know on that one, but would be very interesting to know. For some reason 37.5 drgree pressure angle is coming to mind, but that may be some other random axle (toyota? Or maybe the 14b 30 spline?)
 
My thought is that if you're being truthful to yourself about your plans and want deep gears and low hp, it seems like a plan. Especially if you have all the parts already.
 
JohnnyJ said:
My thought is that if you're being truthful to yourself about your plans and want deep gears and low hp, it seems like a plan. Especially if you have all the parts already
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I have most of the parts and easy access to the rest (gears). This plan makes zero sense if I were to ever go with LS power or something like that. Depending on which project they get thrown under it's more likely that I would have them under 100-150hp 4-6cyl.
If I'm gonna put a V8 in something I'd just go stock SD axles and deal with the weight/clearance.
 
30deg pressure angle is Dana 35sp and below.
9" is 45deg except 35sp, which is 30deg, except MW, which is 45deg.
37sp Dana (80) is 45deg.
14b 30sp is 37.5deg (ish)
If Toyota axles are "fragile" I don't think you'll like the results of "stockish" d44 equivalent parts, and would go for the pre-upside-down-balljoint dodge 60 CAD evilness if you really want unit bearings and ubercheap. Gets you normal 60 joints, easy swappable inners with other stock 60 stuff, just need to deal with 35sp inners in the diff, or using Ford d50 inners to hit 30sp and figure out how to get a 30sp 9". Or custom 60 inners to get 31sp, which last I checked were not dramatically more $$ than custom 44 inners.
 
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ScottRS said:
30deg pressure angle is Dana 35sp and below.
9" is 45deg except 35sp, which is 30deg, except MW, which is 45deg.
37sp Dana (80) is 45deg.
14b 30sp is 37.5deg (ish)
If Toyota axles are "fragile" I don't think you'll like the results of "stockish" d44 equivalent parts, and would go for the pre-upside-down-balljoint dodge 60 CAD evilness if you really want unit bearings and ubercheap. Gets you normal 60 joints, easy swappable inners with other stock 60 stuff, just need to deal with 35sp inners in the diff, or using Ford d50 inners to hit 30sp and figure out how to get a 30sp 9". Or custom 60 inners to get 31sp, which last I checked were not dramatically more $$ than custom 44 inners.
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This. Anything less than 60 outers is a waste of time on a 9", and pre-JK Dana 44 outers aren't an upgrade from the Toyota stuff. I would look for a Dana 50 or Dodge 60 to steal the outers off as others already mentioned. JK and JL alxes are too expensive for what they are to make them worthwhile. I would also go 35 spline inners rather than trying to adapt 30 spline.
 
Road trip to Washington and buy my old front end 🤣 just needs a 3rd!

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ScottRS said:
…figure out how to get a 30sp 9".
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Do you know of a way to do this? I just happen to have a set of jk outers and rcvs that I’ve been wanting to use to build a 9” but I haven’t figured out the 30sp diff.
 
benw said:
Do you know of a way to do this? I just happen to have a set of jk outers and rcvs that I’ve been wanting to use to build a 9” but I haven’t figured out the 30sp diff.
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I believe you can have 28sp side gears edm'd to get there.
Alternates would depend on the diff, some lockers have parts interchangeability across models, if so, get d44 or "super 30" side gears, but I don't know what fits across models.
 
IowaOffRoad said:
I think the problem with this is compatibility between the 9" 35sp and the Dana 44/35sp. I've never tried it, but somewhere on the interwebs I saw a breakdown of the differences between the type of splines (how they are formed) and why they aren't compatible even if they may fit together. Perhaps you know better than I regarding Ford/Dana spline compatibility?
IIRC the comparison was full float D60 rear vs full float 9" 35sp?
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i just read that the spline angle on ford is 45 and dana is 30 if i recall so there is that to worry about and i typed this then read the rest of the thread and bammmm someone beat me to it... hahah


also what have you decided to do?
 
so interesting thought. yes weight is an issue but common parts of 99-04 SD axle is there. and they are cheap on the FB, found two today for 250 each. lots of parts stores will have what you need.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
so interesting thought. yes weight is an issue but common parts of 99-04 SD axle is there. and they are cheap on the FB, found two today for 250 each. lots of parts stores will have what you need.
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I thought 99-04 was undesirable? I have a pair in a parts truck that I was uncertain whether I should pull them or not.
 
posford said:
I thought 99-04 was undesirable? I have a pair in a parts truck that I was uncertain whether I should pull them or not.
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They're all but equivalent to a 86-98 balljoint D60 other than the bolt pattern. They just get overshadowed because the 05+ is such a huge upgrade over literally every D60 that came before.
 
posford said:
I thought 99-04 was undesirable? I have a pair in a parts truck that I was uncertain whether I should pull them or not.
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they are so to speak undesirable. but cheap. still 35 spline. i would rock them if and when i start another project to use my toyota stuff on for sure. i am even think 4 wheel steering with a pair of them. and it would fit right in line with the OPs intent. light 36-38 tires max. common parts source. on car parts right now i found one with 4.3 gears 200 bucks. sure the 05 and up is the desired one, but but but this is still a really good axl.
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