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Best stock class 4600/4500 Base

JR4X said:
You may not, but someone will be along shortly to pick up the torch. There’s always some LSswaptheworld fan not to far away who will take offense to my words.
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Now that we've derailed this thing it got interesting. Is any one running coyote's? Cause what I've seen (on youtube) they can take a ton of power with out a bunch of fancy internals.

Side story, in high school we took an autoshop field trip to watch Monster Jam. The teacher was dihard ford and got kinda pissed when I pointed out the chev bellhousing pattern on the Ford sponsored truck Blue Thunder.
 
dentedsub said:
Now that we've derailed this thing it got interesting. Is any one running coyote's? Cause what I've seen (on youtube) they can take a ton of power with out a bunch of fancy internals.

Side story, in high school we took an autoshop field trip to watch Monster Jam. The teacher was dihard ford and got kinda pissed when I pointed out the chev bellhousing pattern on the Ford sponsored truck Blue Thunder.
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There’s two 4400 cars running coyotes. They make more HP per CID than an LS but you just can’t get enough HP out of a 5.2L to compete with a 7.4 or 7.8L LS. If ford would have built a 6.2 Coyote they might have more stake in the game. The Coyote is also just to large compared to an LS. They’re 36” wide at the tip the OHC valve covers. Tim Diekman of Liquid Iron Industries @Timmay from the old place runs one in his Fred 4400 car. He’s won some of the back East stuff with it. They sound awesome.

https://youtu.be/UbnZLG_TE0E

https://youtu.be/O7fbGWiSkjE
 
I am surprised there haven't been more people running gas 6.2L Fords. Word on the street is you can get pretty damn close to 400 CFM with ported stock heads. There was a guy running one NA and mildly built with close to 600HP in a Fox body mustang at the strip.
 
Bebop said:
You can buy a turnkey 525hp from blueprint for 8gs. Ready to run, standalone wiring, ECU, the whole 9.
I'm curious on a part breakdown for a 427 that would be as expensive but have more hp/tq.


(Big derail I know).
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Sorry for the derail.

But Bebop should know me well enough by now. You know I just like messing around with the LS nutswingers.
 
JR4X said:
There’s two 4400 cars running coyotes. They make more HP per CID than an LS but you just can’t get enough HP out of a 5.2L to compete with a 7.4 or 7.8L LS. If ford would have built a 6.2 Coyote they might have more stake in the game. The Coyote is also just to large compared to an LS. They’re 36” wide at the tip the OHC valve covers. Tim Diekman of Liquid Iron Industries @Timmay from the old place runs one in his Fred 4400 car. He’s won some of the back East stuff with it. They sound awesome.

https://youtu.be/UbnZLG_TE0E

https://youtu.be/O7fbGWiSkjE
Click to expand...

Whenever I would run the pits for Tim, watching the reactions of people when he pulled away was always funny. "What the hell engine is in that thing?"

The night before we left for the Blackwell TX race in 2012 we had it on the dyno for the first time after figuring out why the throttle wasn't going past 20%...first full pull scared the shit out of us. :laughing: That was the stock 400ish? crate motor they offered right when that engine first came out. 2015 before KOH we did cams and the Boss intake, with some tuning that picked up 80rwhp over the crate package and got it to 375rwhp...so maybe 500ish at the crank?

In 2016 that motor got yanked and put into the blue Commando, new one got built for Fred based off a 5.0 truck engine and a Roush blower...that one was likely 600+ at the crank, I forget exactly. Lots more power 'under the curve' at any rate.

They are wide but from what I remember, the headers come off pointed more towards the ground compared to an LS, so it's not as big a tradeoff as it looks on paper.

At KOH 2020 Ford had a pretty big presence and a really big contingency award...do you know if they're still doing that this year?

I'm obviously Ford biased as well :grinpimp:

21269588780_8b701647b5_k.jpg
 
vetteboy79 said:
Whenever I would run the pits for Tim, watching the reactions of people when he pulled away was always funny. "What the hell engine is in that thing?"

The night before we left for the Blackwell TX race in 2012 we had it on the dyno for the first time after figuring out why the throttle wasn't going past 20%...first full pull scared the shit out of us. :laughing: That was the stock 400ish? crate motor they offered right when that engine first came out. 2015 before KOH we did cams and the Boss intake, with some tuning that picked up 80rwhp over the crate package and got it to 375rwhp...so maybe 500ish at the crank?

In 2016 that motor got yanked and put into the blue Commando, new one got built for Fred based off a 5.0 truck engine and a Roush blower...that one was likely 600+ at the crank, I forget exactly. Lots more power 'under the curve' at any rate.

They are wide but from what I remember, the headers come off pointed more towards the ground compared to an LS, so it's not as big a tradeoff as it looks on paper.

At KOH 2020 Ford had a pretty big presence and a really big contingency award...do you know if they're still doing that this year?

I'm obviously Ford biased as well :grinpimp:
Click to expand...

Ford factory contingency 21 is $25,000 cash for anyone who wins any class with a ford body and ford engine. $2,500 for winning with a ford body but not ford power plant.

Yeah Fred sounds so wicked. I went to AAOP in Pennsylvania and DirtyTurtle in Kentucky 2018. I could tell where Tim was the whole race because it sounds different than every other car. Always wanted to hear your little V6 scream
 
vetteboy79 said:
Whenever I would run the pits for Tim, watching the reactions of people when he pulled away was always funny. "What the hell engine is in that thing?"

The night before we left for the Blackwell TX race in 2012 we had it on the dyno for the first time after figuring out why the throttle wasn't going past 20%...first full pull scared the shit out of us. :laughing: That was the stock 400ish? crate motor they offered right when that engine first came out. 2015 before KOH we did cams and the Boss intake, with some tuning that picked up 80rwhp over the crate package and got it to 375rwhp...so maybe 500ish at the crank?

In 2016 that motor got yanked and put into the blue Commando, new one got built for Fred based off a 5.0 truck engine and a Roush blower...that one was likely 600+ at the crank, I forget exactly. Lots more power 'under the curve' at any rate.

They are wide but from what I remember, the headers come off pointed more towards the ground compared to an LS, so it's not as big a tradeoff as it looks on paper.

At KOH 2020 Ford had a pretty big presence and a really big contingency award...do you know if they're still doing that this year?

I'm obviously Ford biased as well :grinpimp:

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Sooo what is the status of the TTB buggy?
 
pennsylvaniaboy said:
Sooo what is the status of the TTB buggy?
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I pretty much haven't changed a single thing on it in the last almost 5ish years. Works great, is a blast to drive, and crawls/rec wheels perfectly. I had it out a few times this past year, first Line Mtn race is May 1st and I'd like to get at least one more rec wheeling trip in before then.
 
random thought: would running a very stiff steering damper help on a 4600 truck? something that greatly resists motion, obviously would need a goodly sized power steering box, but might take some of the rock bouncing fatigue away
 
Provience said:
random thought: would running a very stiff steering damper help on a 4600 truck? something that greatly resists motion, obviously would need a goodly sized power steering box, but might take some of the rock bouncing fatigue away
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Probably wouldn't hurt.

Part of me says one of those GM magnetic fluid shocks would be great since you could turn it on at the flick of a switch.
 
After watching the part few years, it seems like maybe trying to get the thing that came with the biggest engine isn't really the key.

I wonder how a single cab 4cyl Tacoma would be? They make 150-160hp and ~180 tq stock and have a decent aftermarket following.

Coil over ifs front and long Deaver leaf rear.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
After watching the part few years, it seems like maybe trying to get the thing that came with the biggest engine isn't really the key.

I wonder how a single cab 4cyl Tacoma would be? They make 150-160hp and ~180 tq stock and have a decent aftermarket following.

Coil over ifs front and long Deaver leaf rear.
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yeah and then everything else shits the bed all the time :flipoff2:



at least with a fool-size super duty, you get strong everything else and heck, even running the small V8 would be enough to push it around, while being less likely to have a steering/axle/mount issue

and coil springs up front :rasta:

it be nice to see what takes out everybody. grenaded motors/transmissions. cashed out leaf spring packs, steering regularly breaks everywhere, stupid shift linkage and other nonsense. freakin' water pump pulley :confused: it's nearly 100% untangibles.
 
Provience said:
yeah and then everything else shits the bed all the time :flipoff2:



at least with a fool-size super duty, you get strong everything else and heck, even running the small V8 would be enough to push it around, while being less likely to have a steering/axle/mount issue

and coil springs up front :rasta:

it be nice to see what takes out everybody. grenaded motors/transmissions. cashed out leaf spring packs, steering regularly breaks everywhere, stupid shift linkage and other nonsense. freakin' water pump pulley :confused: it's nearly 100% untangibles.
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Your stupidooty is looking better and better but the $25k question is still how much you're gonna get hung up on those wide as fuck rocker panels.
 
Full sizes on the trail are almost always running 40+ tires. A super duty on 35s, which they fit stock, would be helpless on the rocks. Not just the width, but even a single cab has a long ass wheelbase.

You know there is no limit on axles or tcase right?

You can run spider Trax or JHF portals and an atlas or hero on anything.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Full sizes on the trail are almost always running 40+ tires. A super duty on 35s, which they fit stock, would be helpless on the rocks. Not just the width, but even a single cab has a long ass wheelbase.

You know there is no limit on axles or tcase right?

You can run spider Trax or JHF portals and an atlas or hero on anything.
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oh wow, a superduty on JHF portals to negate the clearance? that would be dope! Suck that, haters! :flipoff2: :lmao:

i mean hell, it's only money :)

bang for the buck, keep the stock stuff and it would probably be reasonably ok.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Your stupidooty is looking better and better but the $25k question is still how much you're gonna get hung up on those wide as fuck rocker panels.
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cut rockers up to door sill, use aluminum foil to cover up the holes as "rock rails", remove the doors and run tubez, let the rocks push the floor in as it sees fit.

winch early, winch often, winch fast
 
Provience said:
cut rockers up to door sill, use aluminum foil to cover up the holes as "rock rails", remove the doors and run tubez, let the rocks push the floor in as it sees fit.

winch early, winch often, winch fast
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They don't really have rockers, the bottom of the door is it.
 
How about something like a Landrover Defender 110? Sure the factory axles were shit so swap in Dana 60s, some of the later ones had supercharged 5.0 Jaguar AJ-V8s making 400hp-380ft/lbs mated to a ZF 8HP70 auto. Light weight aluminium body (singlecab pickups are available), stupidly strong LT230 T-Case, linked rear, radius arms up front, coils all round can fit 35"s without much effort.
I'm not a LR fan but that seems like a pretty solid recipe.
 
OllieNZ said:
How about something like a Landrover Defender 110? Sure the factory axles were shit so swap in Dana 60s, some of the later ones had supercharged 5.0 Jaguar AJ-V8s making 400hp-380ft/lbs mated to a ZF 8HP70 auto. Light weight aluminium body (singlecab pickups are available), stupidly strong LT230 T-Case, linked rear, radius arms up front, coils all round can fit 35"s without much effort.
I'm not a LR fan but that seems like a pretty solid recipe.
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Sounds good on paper, land rovers are pretty uncommon over here though.

What about a g-wagon? :flipoff2:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What about a g-wagon? :flipoff2:
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​​​​​​
Honest answer? They've got some pretty impressive engine options for big power/torque in both petrol and diesel not sure how good the trans and T-cases are. Another with coils all round, radius arms up front
4 link rear, factory lockers all round. If they had a true stock class and your were driving one...... It'd be your race to lose.

:flipoff2:Answer? If you cannot afford a new one, you can't afford a used one :laughing:
 
OllieNZ said:
​​​​​​
Honest answer? They've got some pretty impressive engine options for big power/torque in both petrol and diesel not sure how good the trans and T-cases are. Another with coils all round, radius arms up front
4 link rear, factory lockers all round. If they had a true stock class and your were driving one...... It'd be your race to lose.

:flipoff2:Answer? If you cannot afford a new one, you can't afford a used one :laughing:
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If they made it so axles had to remain stock, all the jeeps that weren't Rubicons would be out.

I'm sure you could build a 5.9 ZJ for 400+ HP easy, then you get 4 link f&r. They're cheap and plentiful here. I just don't think much more than 100 hp is needed, at least the last 3 years.

A 4cyl tj is looking better and better.

Edit: 03-06 had a dohc 2.4 147 hp/165 ftlbs

Can you run a 4spd atlas? Run in 2:1 all the time for more snap, still should be able to hit 65-70 easy.

Then obviously jhf cheater axles :flipoff2:
 
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YotaAtieToo said:
If they made it so axles had to remain stock, all the jeeps that weren't Rubicons would be out.

I'm sure you could build a 5.9 ZJ for 400+ HP easy, then you get 4 link f&r. They're cheap and plentiful here. I just don't think much more than 100 hp is needed, at least the last 3 years.

A 4cyl tj is looking better and better.

Edit: 03-06 had a dohc 2.4 147 hp/165 ftlbs

Can you run a 4spd atlas? Run in 2:1 all the time for more snap, still should be able to hit 65-70 easy.

Then obviously jhf cheater axles :flipoff2:
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I could be remembering wrong, but LJs weren't an official model, just a package option for tjs. So based on the rules,

3.3.1 Stock engine must be retained, but may be replaced with any available in same make/model/year.
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You should be able to swap the 4cyl into one. Better on the climbs and easier to fit the 4 speed Atlas.
 
I have been waiting for a TTB 4600 truck to podium at KOH for a long time. I had high hopes this year but no luck! In my opinion, the only Ford vehicles that could be competitive in4600 would be an EB, FSB or RBV. I am curious to know what happened to the Ranger and red FSB in the EMC this year, does anyone know?

Here is a video I filmed of the guy that ran the blue Ranger in the EMC yesterday. I filmed this last year at KOH right after he got the truck together:
 
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