Best stock class 4600/4500 Base

['84 Bronco II]

I have seen pictures of it, but never in person. It is a sexy looking rig, especially with the Bronco skins I knew you are running a Ford engine, but I didn't know the details.

 

[JohnnyJ]

What we haven't seen is someone enter a fullsize vehicle expressly planning to tear the body off. Once you've committed to actively shedding the body there's a hell of a lot of tricks you could pull to prevent the body from hindering you as you leave it on the trail.
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Do you mean like Miller/Gordon in the Gladiator a few years back? They finished <cough> <cough> with a time extension <cough>. You could argue it's not truly fullsized, but the wheelbase is loooooooong.

 

[mobil1syn]

My plan was to take an FSB and take it down to a bare frame and cab. I mean remove absolutely every part piece and screw to where there is only two parts. A frame and a cab. Then, only put back the minimum to pass tech. Between my brothers and I we’ve got everything we need to put D50 TTB in one, a 427 Windsor, a C6 an atlas a 9”. I’d do Giant 64” rear leaves. Cut n turn beams, RCV shafts. It wouldn’t be Toyota weight but I think I could get it under 5,000 pounds.

if you wanted to give a fullsize a shot, a blazer or fsb would give you the best shot.

if you gutted it i bet you could get it light enogh, id skip the giants since you cant cut into the body so the spring under would hurt more than the travel is worth. im in the 16" range with a 12" shock mounted under the cab, shock angle sucks and is giving me fits trying to tune it, if i commit i can smash some hoops for sure. not being able to have a bypass with create some serious issues for the tuning. fuel cell touching the tail gate and id probably mount the spare outside the tailgate to get some weight father back giving up some departure angle.

i still think a 2.9 ranger would be the ticket. i have some ideas that would get panties in a bunch, which would be 90% of reason i would ever race a limited class like that.

if i was a rec wheeler looking to occasionally participate sometimes (which for 90% of the field is the reason they are there), 4800 is still the way to go.

 

[JohnnyJ]

What ultra4 needs is a 4650 modified stock class aka Trail King. Rules could be 4600 except Engine & Transmission could be "must match OEM". Ford in a Ford, Chevy in a Chevy, Peugeot in a Jeep.

 

[JohnnyJ]

if you wanted to give a fullsize a shot, a blazer or fsb would give you the best shot.

No love for the Grand Wagoneer?

 

[JR4X]

if you wanted to give a fullsize a shot, a blazer or fsb would give you the best shot.

if you gutted it i bet you could get it light enogh, id skip the giants since you cant cut into the body so the spring under would hurt more than the travel is worth. im in the 16" range with a 12" shock mounted under the cab, shock angle sucks and is giving me fits trying to tune it, if i commit i can smash some hoops for sure. not being able to have a bypass with create some serious issues for the tuning. fuel cell touching the tail gate and id probably mount the spare outside the tailgate to get some weight father back giving up some departure angle.

I don’t even want to race with Ultra4 anymore. But if I did. What rear leaves are you running? Say I made axles wide enough I could put shocks in the fender wells instead of under the floor, could that be made to work better?

For the rear shock reason I’ve also looked at single cab short bed with a step side bed. The mid to late 80’s stepsides the inner fender is the bed side and it’s flush with the outside of the frame rail, unlike a Bronco which is not flush with the frame. Pickups are a little longer wheel base which I don’t really want.

 

[Provience]

I don’t even want to race with Ultra4 anymore. But if I did. What rear leaves are you running? Say I made axles wide enough I could put shocks in the fender wells instead of under the floor, could that be made to work better?

For the rear shock reason I’ve also looked at single cab short bed with a step side bed. The mid to late 80’s stepsides the inner fender is the bed side and it’s flush with the outside of the frame rail, unlike a Bronco which is not flush with the frame. Pickups are a little longer wheel base which I don’t really want.

it's not about what you want, it's about what the fans want, and i'll be sad if you guys pull out of U4 altogether

interesting note on the stepsides, hadn't considered that. shocks mounted like the newer factory stuff, low and behind the axle and stuffed into the wheel, then laid back into the frame seems like the easier way?

 

[mobil1syn]

I don’t even want to race with Ultra4 anymore. But if I did. What rear leaves are you running? Say I made axles wide enough I could put shocks in the fender wells instead of under the floor, could that be made to work better?

For the rear shock reason I’ve also looked at single cab short bed with a step side bed. The mid to late 80’s stepsides the inner fender is the bed side and it’s flush with the outside of the frame rail, unlike a Bronco which is not flush with the frame. Pickups are a little longer wheel base which I don’t really want.

desolates hd race spring. key feature is the reverse eyelet giving same lift, more free arch and less inversion at bump. moving the fuel cell into the bed opens up some room behind the axle that helps get better angles. i would probably still go forward but would spending a lot of time on making the shock as short as possible to help decrease the angle at bump.

 

[JR4X]

it's not about what you want, it's about what the fans want, and i'll be sad if you guys pull out of U4 altogether

interesting note on the stepsides, hadn't considered that. shocks mounted like the newer factory stuff, low and behind the axle and stuffed into the wheel, then laid back into the frame seems like the easier way?

I’m just ready to explore other venues and organizations. U4’s been fun but they come up with “ideas” last minute that negatively affect racers after we’ve already traveled 1000 miles with a plan. Then the plan gets shot all to hell and all the hours and dollars are down the drain. After what they did to us at the Oklahoma finals I wouldn’t even be going to KOH if it wasn’t for my dad. Dads like a gambling addict though. We’ve come so close enough times the house has him. Next hand he’ll be the winner, so we keep going. When I’m the one making decisions I wanna try some other things.

 

[mobil1syn]

After what they did to us at the Oklahoma finals I wouldn’t even be going to KOH if it wasn’t for my dad.

do tell ...

 

[JR4X]

At the finals they overlapped race times, and made it so it was impossible for the leaders of the previous race to finish before the start of the next race. So I was racing UTV and still had an hour run time left on the clock when EMC class took the green flag.

I was also co-driver for 4500. So I had to make a shitty decision. DNF my own race to get in with dad in 4500 or leave dad to run by himself. Can’t leave dad to fend for himself when we had a points podium going in 4500 and not so much in UTV. So I DNF UTV and barely make it to the staging area in time to take the green flag in the 4531 car. The GPS got messed with in dads car and I couldn’t get it it to go back to heads up messing with it a checkers or wreckers pace. 10 min in we crash because I’m trying the gps to work and I didn’t call out a G-out in time.

The leaders of the EMC class also were not finished when I climbed into Bailey Campbell’s car with Ryan Miller to take the green flag for the 4400 class. So I would have had to leave Ryan on his own to finish the 4500 class if not for the snafu earlier.

 

[Provience]

At the finals they overlapped race times, and made it so it was impossible for the leaders of the previous race to finish before the start of the next race. So I was racing UTV and still had an hour run time left on the clock when EMC class took the green flag.

I was also co-driver for 4500. So I had to make a shitty decision. DNF my own race to get in with dad in 4500 or leave dad to run by himself. Can’t leave dad to fend for himself when we had a points podium going in 4500 and not so much in UTV. So I DNF UTV and barely make it to the staging area in time to take the green flag in the 4531 car. The GPS got messed with in dads car and I couldn’t get it it to go back to heads up messing with it a checkers or wreckers pace. 10 min in we crash because I’m trying the gps to work and I didn’t call out a G-out in time.

The leaders of the EMC class also were not finished when I climbed into Bailey Campbell’s car with Ryan Miller to take the green flag for the 4400 class. So I would have had to leave Ryan on his own to finish the 4500 class if not for the snafu earlier.

i'm all for multi-class racing, but that is a shit thing to find out at or near day of

 

[Provience]

also, i'd like to point out the general shift of "you can't race fullsize because of the width" to "you can race fullsize width if you give up the wheelbase" going on in this thread

superduty FTMFW, anybody that finishes is going to make the podium at some level. by rights and on paper, the currie jeep should smoke the 4600 field every single year, but doesn't

 

[mobil1syn]

At the finals they overlapped race times, and made it so it was impossible for the leaders of the previous race to finish before the start of the next race. So I was racing UTV and still had an hour run time left on the clock when EMC class took the green flag.

yea that is as the face of HK would say "fundamentally retarded"

 

[JR4X]

also, i'd like to point out the general shift of "you can't race fullsize because of the width" to "you can race fullsize width if you give up the wheelbase" going on in this thread

superduty FTMFW, anybody that finishes is going to make the podium at some level. by rights and on paper, the currie jeep should smoke the 4600 field every single year, but doesn't

I don’t disagree with you. As long as body preservation isn’t even on the mind I think it could work. Depending on purchase price the SD should be the lowest initial cost because you wouldn’t replace a single drivetrain component to run 35’s. Strip it, cage it, safety equipment shocks, springs and done. I’m not even sure I’d change axle gears.

The easy cheap competitive recipe seems to be Jeeps with superduty axles. But those guys are having to spend a lot of money to make a boat anchor into a race engine. The full-size Bronco has the same footprint as the Jeeps but I think has some obvious advantages.

 

[Toreadorranger]

I don’t disagree with you. As long as body preservation isn’t even on the mind I think it could work. Depending on purchase price the SD should be the lowest initial cost because you wouldn’t replace a single drivetrain component to run 35’s. Strip it, cage it, safety equipment shocks, springs and done. I’m not even sure I’d change axle gears.

I'm amazed more people aren't doing this even for a cheap wheeling truck.

 

[JR4X]

Fortunately my vision is going to get tested next week. Kenneth Hale’s FSB. Super duper clean Texas Eddie Bauer edition Bronco that any FSB fan is sad to see about to get smashed to pieces on Johnson Valley rock.

 

[Arickvan]

 

[Provience]

Fortunately my vision is going to get tested next week. Kenneth Hale’s FSB. Super duper clean Texas Eddie Bauer edition Bronco that any FSB fan is sad to see about to get smashed to pieces on Johnson Valley rock.

that's dope, I hope it does well!

 

[mobil1syn]

Fortunately my vision is going to get tested next week. Kenneth Hale’s FSB. Super duper clean Texas Eddie Bauer edition Bronco that any FSB fan is sad to see about to get smashed to pieces on Johnson Valley rock.

RIP that thing, wow

 

[JR4X]

RIP that thing, wow

Right! Ken says it was sitting in a field for 20 years when he picked it up. I know people who DD Broncos that would KILL to get their hands on a specimen that clean.

 

[mobil1syn]

Right! Ken says it was sitting in a field for 20 years when he picked it up. I know people who DD Broncos that would KILL to get their hands on a specimen that clean.

mines for sell if they are interested ...

 

[MoparMan]

We make 421’s and 427’s out of stock Windsor blocks. 421’s are .030 over and 427’s are .040 or .045 over. 4.1 stroke. 550 reliable horsepower on pump gas. 600+ on 110 octane. We can build two Windsor’s for the price of 1 LS in same hp range.

Wait.....what?! I was always under the impression you could buy a junkyard 6.0 LS, throw a cam in it and make 5-600 hp. Surely all these people that say that aren't dreaming right?!

 

[Bebop]

Wait.....what?! I was always under the impression you could buy a junkyard 6.0 LS, throw a cam in it and make 5-600 hp. Surely all these people that say that aren't dreaming right?!

You can buy a turnkey 525hp from blueprint for 8gs. Ready to run, standalone wiring, ECU, the whole 9.
I'm curious on a part breakdown for a 427 that would be as expensive but have more hp/tq.


(Big derail I know).

 

[Provience]

Right! Ken says it was sitting in a field for 20 years when he picked it up. I know people who DD Broncos that would KILL to get their hands on a specimen that clean.

biggest thing i'm curious about is why both retaining doors and not just run simple lightweight tube and also why make rock sliders, especially ones that stick out beyond the body.

 

[JR4X]

You can buy a turnkey 525hp from blueprint for 8gs. Ready to run, standalone wiring, ECU, the whole 9.
I'm curious on a part breakdown for a 427 that would be as expensive but have more hp/tq.


(Big derail I know).

Hard to broach this topic without stuff getting personal. Yes, I’m denegrating the LS platform, don’t take it personally. The non competitive LS people I know are running LS3’s in that HP range but those are in the 15K to 24K dollar range wether it’s from Turnkey, Mast, CBM, Tilden etc. the competitive guys I know are running LSX 440 or 454 engines in the 25K to 30k range from all those same companies.

Our stock blocked stroker Windsor’s have close to the same HP but way more torque than the LS. We could turn key one of those for about $10,000. And we could walk away from some of the 454 LSX’s with that combo, especially up hill. The car that wins 4500 class EMC every year however is running a Danzio performance 454 LSX. Looks like my cost for one of those is about $40K. No one I know can touch that thing, us included.


No one running junkyard LS’s are even finishing races let alone running in the top with them where we’re at in the game now. There’s a huge difference in what works at a drag strip and what is required to survive off road. A drag car can run all night every weekend all year and have minutes of total run time at the end of the season. Most of the Ultra4 field will have more run time at WOT this KOH than a drag car will all season.


Lastly on the subject. Brad Lovell has overalled the EMC twice now and won 4800 another time with a 347. Vaughn Gitten JR. won every race except KOH with his Windsor based car the last year in 4500. Loren Healy is running a Windsor now and flat murdered every single LS car at Crandon Wisconsin 2 days in a row this year, arguably the most horsepower critical track U4 has ever raced.

 

[Bebop]

Thanks for the explanations.

I am not brand loyal nor give a damn about MUH LS or MUH FORD. Def not taking it personally.
An engine makes a pwr/tq output and cost/perf is what I'm interested in. I'd run a Kia engine if that made financial sense.

 

[Yotota]

Right! Ken says it was sitting in a field for 20 years when he picked it up. I know people who DD Broncos that would KILL to get their hands on a specimen that clean.

I'm 50/50 on rigs like this... Yeah, it's nice, but if someone else wanted it they could have just as easily knocked on the owner's door and pulled it out of the field. I'd rather see a rig get used and abused than sit around as a cream puff.

biggest thing i'm curious about is why both retaining doors and not just run simple lightweight tube and also why make rock sliders, especially ones that stick out beyond the body.

I bet he built it as a regular old trail rig and is racing it for shits and grins. Maybe he'll smash it up, maybe he'll baby it and not finish... It'll be entertaining as hell to watch though.

 

[JR4X]

Thanks for the explanations.

I am not brand loyal nor give a damn about MUH LS or MUH FORD. Def not taking it personally.

You may not, but someone will be along shortly to pick up the torch. There’s always some LSswaptheworld fan not to far away who will take offense to my words.

 

[GGRR 4555]

NO way in hell is a super duty going to be competitive in 4600 class. 35" tires and a fat pig full size long bed truck would be a trail plug like never before.

V8 ZJ's are a home run. They are small-ish, can make lots of power, and are cheap as dirt to purchase. Pain to plate up the body but that has been figured out before.