Vulcan 8 x 8

[CarterKraft]

I'm thinking the cheapest shit I can get cause a lot of it's gonna end up on the ground I bet

 

[aczlan]

I'd probably use AW32 or AW46 from TSC or O'Reilly for initial testing. I don't think "tractor fluid" would be right for his application.

I was thinking of making it compatible with whatever is in his tractor.
If you can find a brand/model on the pumps, here is a chart with what they generally take: Hydraulic Fluid Chart Hydraulic Oil Table and Cross Reference

Aaron Z

 

[KrustyTJ]

I was going to suggest getting the tools for building new jic hoses but that tool maybe a bit much for your budget my friend made some for my plow/dump truck last year I guess he’s not as cheap as I thought he was lol.

I’d replace those hoses once it’s up and running a airline I use to work for bought a de-icer from tuson Arizona it had under 10 hrs on it and was probably 20 yrs old and the hoses where smoked that cheap de-icer wasn’t so cheap after all plus trucking it back to Michigan.

You have a interesting project for sure I’ll be following good luck getting her up and going again

 

[aczlan]

The tool won't lose value, so if you could find a used one you could probably resell it for about what you buy it for when you are done...

Aaron Z

 

[WaterH]

So I towed the Vulcan up to my shop. I might actually work on it.

Got some quick disconnects for my tractor. I should have some test hoses and adapters figured out soon.

 

[Gots_a_sol]

I'm not sure how big I was expecting that thing to be, but seeing it next to that Bronco really put it in perspective. Definitely thought it was bigger than that (that's what she said)

 

[Clemson13]

I'm not sure how big I was expecting that thing to be, but seeing it next to that Bronco really put it in perspective. Definitely thought it was bigger than that (that's what she said)

The low slung vibe is what's so cool. It's like a low rider of his other truck

 

[WaterH]

I'm not sure how big I was expecting that thing to be, but seeing it next to that Bronco really put it in perspective. Definitely thought it was bigger than that (that's what she said)

It is wider that both of those trucks. I just measured it at the outside of the fenders. 104” The HEMTT is 96”. Not sure what the Bronco is to the outside of the tires, but less than 96”

The low slung vibe is what's so cool. It's like a low rider of his other truck

It is sitting on the bumps, so it will be taller for driving. The tires are 37”, so only an inch shorter than the Bronco. Would look cool with my Bronco tires on it. (Don’t want to think about buying 8 tires)

 

[WaterH]

So after a bunch of work I have this.

Would you believe this dash mount is 4” by 3/8” tube? It weighes about 50 lbs.

I got out my pressure washer and found it was broke. This hose is split. Not sure how to fix it. Hate to scrap it over this.

Without the pressure washer, I had to go to a wire brush. An hour later I had this.

The grime is just caked on so thick, I had to use a chisel on some stuff. Anyways, at least I got a name/logo.

Can anyone confirm that this is a 6.2 L?

It would also be nice if anyone knows what the allowable amount of dirt-dobbers in the intake manifold is.

 

[CarterKraft]

https://smile.amazon.com/Tool-Daily-Pressure-Connector-Washing/dp/B092CVS4PF/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3V9O3DXFGDC1D&keywords=pressure%2Bwasher%2Bhose%2Bm22%2Bfemale&qid=1672875472&sprefix=pressure%2Bwasher%2Bhose%2Bm22%2Bfemale%2Caps%2C298&sr=8-3&th=1

 

[CarterKraft]

This deal between the parking brake and the motor had me confused AF but I think you found your neutral/tow mode.
Pull pin and move that sliding dog to engage/disengage tow mode. Need to examine if the brake is before or after that gear box.

Your hoses suck, that might be more problematic than first glance. The pictures are good though...

 

[CarterKraft]

I think the brake is next to the motor and the other deal is a inline reducer possibly or service brake, no idea at this point.

 

[WaterH]

My pressure washer hose is only about a foot long and I don’t think the one end is the same.

This deal between the parking brake and the motor had me confused AF but I think you found your neutral/tow mode.
Pull pin and move that sliding dog to engage/disengage tow mode. Need to examine if the brake is before or after that gear box.

Your hoses suck, that might be more problematic than first glance. The pictures are good though...

Yea, your a little late. Found that several posts ago.

The hose you see looped around is just connected so I don’t get water in the gear box. I believe those to nipples switch the gearbox between high and low range. The pump on the other end is more complicated. I will clean it better before asking questions.

 

[CarterKraft]

My pressure washer hose is only about a foot long and I don’t think the one end is the same.




Yea, your a little late. Found that several posts ago.

The hose you see looped around is just connected so I don’t get water in the gear box. I believe those to nipples switch the gearbox between high and low range. The pump on the other end is more complicated. I will clean it better before asking questions.

Give me some more info on the pressure washer, any breadcrumbs help.

Good deal, that makes sense then, the looped hose was confusing the shit out of me.
If you make one set of hoses you should be able to test each motor but like I said earlier I can't imagine the motors aren't still good.
Who knows though. Not sure how to help you decide what to do with it at the moment.

 

[WaterH]

So the pressure washer hose is fixed. I took it to a hydraulic place and they cut the hose right where it split and crimped a fitting on each end.

I put it back together and tested it. Tomorrow I may get to cleaning again.

I had another victory. I linked all the “up side” suspension cylinders together and hooked it to my tractor. After fixing another flat tire and one cylinder hooked up backwards, I was able to jack up one side of the Vulcan.

I didn’t have the “down side” lines hooked up. So I just put them in a bucket. Oil squirted out as I raised the side. It didn’t look too bad.

After I got it up I noticed the bump stops. Kind of strange, They only have them on the corner wheels. This one is a little wrecked. The others look good.

 

[CarterKraft]

Progress!
That should help to work on it up in the air instead of dragging the ground.

The bump stop is probably a off the shelf deal. McMaster style.

 

[WaterH]

So I did little more work on this. Removed a bunch more wire. It’s unbelievable how much wiring it has. Everything is electric over hydraulic. My Plan is to make it all manual valves.

Heres the wires I’ve removed so far.

The box probably weighs over a hundred lbs.

Engine compartment with most of the wires gone.

It still looks a mess with all the hydro hoses running down the left side, but you should have seen it with a foot wide by 3” of wires running with the hoses.

I crawled underneath to scope it out and found the the front floor was not the only damage from someone hotdogging in this thing. There was a hydro hose smashed into a exhaust pipe. Burnt the hose and collapsed the pipe. Also the oil pan got dented. It was amazing the the fuel tank was untouched. (That’s the top of it in the above pic)

I opened the electrical boxes on the back fender. They were a bitch to get open Because the screws were rusted to shit. Inside the one it looks like a 1970 mainframe computer. Lol.

 

[aczlan]

So I did little more work on this. Removed a bunch more wire. It’s unbelievable how much wiring it has. Everything is electric over hydraulic. My Plan is to make it all manual valves.

Should be interesting, are you planning on keeping it electric over hydraulic, but with switches to run the valves, or are you planning on adding twice the volume of the wires that you are pulling worth of hoses?

I opened the electrical boxes on the back fender. They were a bitch to get open Because the screws were rusted to shit. Inside the one it looks like a 1970 mainframe computer. Lol.

I like the stack of bills on top of the PLC, is that the budget to finish it?

Aaron Z

 

[CarterKraft]

You think they dropped it and crushed the belly?

 

[aczlan]

You think they dropped it and crushed the belly?

Sounds almost like they found an immovable object with the front while moving quickly and came to a sudden stop.

Aaron Z

 

[WaterH]

Sounds almost like they found an immovable object with the front while moving quickly and came to a sudden stop.

Aaron Z

Yea, I think it must have rode on a rock till it got to the oil pan. The fuel tank is right behind the oil pan and is untouched. So they must have pulled it back off backwards.

As far as the hydro hoses, there appears to be far more than necessary to run this thing. Some of them are because they controlled each wheel independently, but some must be for turret and guns.

 

[aczlan]

Yea, I think it must have rode on a rock till it got to the oil pan. The fuel tank is right behind the oil pan and is untouched. So they must have pulled it back off backwards.

As far as the hydro hoses, there appears to be far more than necessary to run this thing. Some of them are because they controlled each wheel independently, but some must be for turret and guns.

Probably easier to run them all at the start rather than fishing them in afterwards.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Ran across a thread that has some interesting info as well as a member who claims to have worked at Standard Manufacturing Co. when they were building this machine: Standard Manufacturing Co. Excalibur

Talking about the diagram Alanmorton says:

Yes, the colored diagram is a first gen rendition of the drive system using skid steer process. The next gen used a transmission with a sun gear to transfer power to either side thus keeping all power to the wheels. I worked at Standard during these Developments.

Also found a PDF talking about it with some specs: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA170798.pdf

This one was especially useful, it has operating pressures for the drive, suspension and braking systems:

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

One more PDF, a brochure for it:


Aaron Z

 

[WaterH]

Ran across a thread that has some interesting info as well as a member who claims to have worked at Standard Manufacturing Co. when they were building this machine: Standard Manufacturing Co. Excalibur
Aaron Z

Very interesting. They make it sound like you can’t rotate on a spot without lifting the F/R tires. If that’s true, I may have to rethink my simplified plumbing.

One thing I was wondering is how big of a tire could it run? I need it drawn up in cad to see when one tire hits the other while articulating.

 

[WaterH]

Today, I finally did some pressure washing on the wheel motors. Amazing how dirt and grime can stand up to direct pressure washer spray. My pressure washer is not that great, but stil.

Anyways, here’s the front motor and gear box.

Im hoping someone understands this. I would love to have Hydrodynamic to lurk in this thread. (Actually, I’d like him to comment) I’m guessing a couple things.Anyone feel free to correct me.

Starting from the top, the hose you see looped around a sensor and back to the gearbox. That originally had two hoses that went into the mess. I assume that pressure on one of those gives you high range and pressure on the other, low range. I know this had high and low range because it was marked on the dash. Of course, it was an electrical switch, but I assume I can just put a manual valve to direct pressure there.

The other possibility is that is a feed and return oil line to some sort of cooler. Anybody?

Next, in the center there’s a hose right next to an electrical sensor. This doesn’t make much sense to me as there is usually a return line from anything hydro. I guess the next hose down could be the return, but it is a larger size. (Seems kind of strange. Guesses?

Finnely, the two large hoses are probably to feed the motor. (And return)

Please note the two hard lines at the lower left that go to an electrical device. I’m guessing these are a control circuit. Either they control forward/reverse or maybe they control the verible volume motor. (Seems like I read that they had that) That could be the high and low range if the top hoses are cooling oil for the gearboxes.

Here’s another view.

Note in this view you can see another small hydro hose going to the electrical device.

Also, the brake pedal is interesting. I assume it is a hydro boost of sorts. Anybody seen something like it?

 

[aczlan]

Very interesting. They make it sound like you can’t rotate on a spot without lifting the F/R tires. If that’s true, I may have to rethink my simplified plumbing.

As I read the article, it takes 60% less power to rotate if you lift the leading and trailing wheels.

Worth noting that the oil is listed as being 10W SAE oil, your tractor probably runs NH 134 which is a multi-weight 10W30 per RickB on TBN (now retired, used to run a NH service department at a big NH dealer iso of case Hy tran ultra ).
Wouldn't be the end of the world if it mixed with the oil in your tractor (as long as its clean enough), I would probably flush it and fill with the same hydraulic oil as you use for your tractor if you plan to do much where you will share fluids.

One thing I was wondering is how big of a tire could it run? I need it drawn up in cad to see when one tire hits the other while articulating.

Good question, if you havent, I would contact the guy on the other forum and see if he has any interest in answering questions like that and perhaps some of your deeper controls questions.

Today, I finally did some pressure washing on the wheel motors. Amazing how dirt and grime can stand up to direct pressure washer spray. My pressure washer is not that great, but stil.
[snip]
Im hoping someone understands this. I would love to have Hydrodynamic to lurk in this thread. (Actually, I’d like him to comment)

Tagging HYDRODYNAMIC

I’m guessing a couple things.Anyone feel free to correct me.

You asked for it :D
Added some numbers to help keep my thoughts straight:

My guesses:

1. High pressure inlet - up to 6000PSI
2. Low pressure return to the tank or pump (possibly through a cooler) - #3 isn't big enough
3. Case drain - Usually found on big motors like this, relatively low pressure/flow, if so, it should be teed to the other one and go back to the tank
4. Control pressure for the forward/reverse valve (that appears to be a variable displacement bent axis piston hydraulic motor)
   • Here is their present day version: CMV - Linde Hydraulics
   • 
5. Displacement control hardlines from the solenoid block from #4
6. See #5
7. Wires for the Fwd/Rev/Displacement control valve from #4
8. Probably parking brake release hose, that section looks too short to be a 2 speed gearbox, but about right to be a brake
9. Possibly a pressure sensor?
10. I would guess a pressure sensor (parking brake off?), but possibly a temp sensor?
11. Speed sensor?
12. High or low range hydraulic actuator? (although, you were able to roll it once you looped those hoses, right? perhaps a 2nd brake like CarterKraft was guessing?)
13. See 12
14. What was connected here?

If you can find part numbers on any of these (looks like you were cleaning off the part number on the block that feeds 5/6, but preferably on the motor and "sections" heading toward the wheel as well, might be on the bottom), that would make it easier to be certain what does what.
You might be able to reach out to Linde with the model/serial numbers and get info from them.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

My thoughts overall on the project (assuming you still want to keep it "EMP Proof" and have no electronics in the hydraulic system):

1. High/Low, possibly tied to the pumps on the motor? (limit displacement/flow in low range, are the pump outputs tied together anywhere between the pumps and the motors?)
2. Fwd/Reverse on the motors: Possibly could be switched to use pilot hydraulics, but would probbaly be a LOT simpler to do with electronics.
3. Hydraulic controls in general might be easier to run electrically, even if its just switches or dials tied into the solenoids/actuators, but you would need to get documentation on the valves installed on the motors and other places to see what they are expecting for control inputs.
4. Resources I would use (in no particular order after the first one):
   • The guy on the other forum who said he worked at Standard when they built this machine, if he doesn't know about the hydraulics or machine characteristics, he might be able to connect you to a former co-worker who does
   • Documentation from Linde or other manufacturers on their products (will need model/serial numbers for the pumps, motors, valves, etc for them to help, but I have had great luck calling various companies tech lines to find out about a valve I am working with)
   • Resources on here, I am happy to poke at it where I can and dig up information if I can find it, CarterKraft, HYDRODYNAMIC and ThePanzerFuhrer (among others who I cant name off hand) have probably each forgotten several times what I know about hydraulics, I like to play with hydraulics, but they have a much deeper level of practical knowledge on the subject, most of mine is theoretical or on "small" sub 100HP farm equipment and forklifts.

Aaron Z

 

[CarterKraft]

the only thing confusing is the brakes or mechanical disconnect.
Brakes are usually spring applied (one hose)
There are double sided brakes that use spring applied parking and pressure applied braking, if the brake is at the outer end top right then one will be park and one service. The inner hose might be the tow actuator (foreign to me but it would be very desirable on the battlefield).

 

[CarterKraft]

A standard pilot joystick with counter steer resolver block would get you "skid steer" steering from hydraulics if desired.
Item #3 218-6119 can use many different joysticks. One joystck allows you to drink beer and drive one handed...