Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
aczlan
Good Morning!
It's the motor not a u-joint.
The round parts (#5 below) is the actual piston that the pressurized hydraulic fluid pushes on and the angled plate (#3) converts that linear motion into rotational motion.
Hydraulic Motor Types - A Detailed Guide
Aaron Z
WaterH
Well-known member
Yes, I understand. A friend of mine had a U-joint like that as a paper weight. He told me at the time (20 years ago) that it would work as a pump. I believe they even have engines like that.It's the motor not a u-joint.
The round parts (#5 below) is the actual piston that the pressurized hydraulic fluid pushes on and the angled plate (#3) converts that linear motion into rotational motion.
Hydraulic Motor Types - A Detailed Guide
Aaron Z
aczlan
Good Morning!
Confused, any idea what that type of joint is called? I looked but couldn't find anything like that.
Pumps, yes. Motors, yes. Engines, yes. Helicopters (to transfer vertical motion from the controls to the blades).
A "ujoint" type angled box to transfer rotational force from one shaft to another I couldn't find.
Aaron Z
WaterH
Well-known member
No clue. It was fun to play with as a paper weight. I don’t know what it was used on. I would assume a CV joint is more practical. On a helicopter, it’s called a swashplate, but that’s not really the same because it transmits a non rotating control to a rotating control. On this paperweight, it was just as your last sentence described.
WaterH
Well-known member
Question for you guys,
Is this a hub/disc from a Hummer? Do the brakes look like Hummer?
The wheels are Hummer, so I was thinking they used ”off the shelf” stuff. One of the wheels does not have a caliper or pads. I’m hopping I can buy stock stuff.
Nobody?
How about this. The motor is suppose to be from a Hummer. It has a 24volt alternator and starter. Alternator won’t be an issue for me to change, but it would be nice if there’s an “off the shelf” 12 volt starter. Does anybody know if they have such a thing?
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
So 6.2 V8 diesel?
If yes then I assume a 1989 3500 6.2 diesel would be a good starting place.
Any reason to NOT keep the 24v shit? It's two batteries instead of one?
JNHEscher
Red Skull Member
Which Detroit engine does it have? There are some 12 volt starter options for Detroits.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Pictures of the starter (and its tags/part numbers) and any tags on the motor?
Given the "one off" nature of this beast we can send you in 500 directions guessing, but with model and/or part numbers someone on here can probably point you in a useful direction...
Aaron Z
WaterH
Well-known member
Will do when it warms up. (It’s like 36 out there right now)
aczlan
Good Morning!
WaterH
Well-known member
So I am thinking of buying one of these for testing purposes.
I’m sure I can hook it to the wheel lifts to jack up a wheel. I’m wondering if it would be able to power one of the drive motors. I know this is a “piss ant” pump, but, I’m not talking about driving it any where, but if it could move one side of wheels 4”, I would say the wheel motor works. It could make a difference in how much I want to invest in this project.
Not worried about spending 4 or 5 grand on this if it will eventually drive around, but don’t care to spend 2 grand and give up.
VEVOR 12 Volt Hydraulic Pump for Dump Trailer - 4 Quart Poly - Double Acting | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VEVOR 12 Volt Hydraulic Pump for Dump Trailer - 4 Quart Poly - Double Acting at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
I’m sure I can hook it to the wheel lifts to jack up a wheel. I’m wondering if it would be able to power one of the drive motors. I know this is a “piss ant” pump, but, I’m not talking about driving it any where, but if it could move one side of wheels 4”, I would say the wheel motor works. It could make a difference in how much I want to invest in this project.
Not worried about spending 4 or 5 grand on this if it will eventually drive around, but don’t care to spend 2 grand and give up.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
If you just want to have a pump to do testing with that's probable fine.
Nope. There is no way in hell any kind of pump like that is going to move enough volume at a high enough pressure to move a hydraulic motor.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
Motors can be disconnected and lines looped easily though. I thought he had a control valving nightmare he needed to sort out.
WaterH
Well-known member
Please educate me here. I was thinking a motor will turn no matter how slow the fluid goes. It would require enough pressure, but that pump goes to about 3,000 psi. Again, I don’t care about moving the truck, I just want to see if the motor turns without all the seals leaking.
On that subject, is there no possibility that these pumps/motors would still be good after sitting for 30+ years. When I removed some of the hydro lines, fluid came out. So it wasn’t completely dry. I’ve seen 50 year old heavy equipment work, but I don’t know if it’s rebuilt.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Running 0.825GPM through a motor intended to see 50GPM (number pulled out of thin air) may not get you enough flow to get past normal internal leakage.
You might be better with a belt driven pump either on your project machine, or on a old riding mower and a valve after that.
Something like this: Used *Pump only BAD Clutch* 21220 Fisher Belt Drive Electric Clutch Plow Pump 21222 John S. Barnes
If you have time, I think the junkyard near me has a plow truck with a pump like that, but possibly with an electric clutch, that would run about $25 plus shipping if I can convince them that it is a power steering pump, or $70 plus shipping if they run it as a snowplow pump.
It may also have a control valve and a tank with it.
They may be good, I would bet on the lines all needing to be replaced (you may want to invest in a hydraulic hose crimper if the there is not space to adapt to a standard JIC fitting and use premade JIC hoses from someplace like Surplus Center).
Aaron Z
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
They're more likely good than not.
WaterH
Well-known member
Im a dumb shit. I just realized my tractor has quick disconnects on the loader. I should Be able to get some of those with long hoses. Than I can just park next to it and test anything I want. The pump on it is not gigantic, but way more than that eBay thing.
The lines that I have removed so far i believe are the JIC fittings all ready . (I call them AN fittings) I was surprised that after I initially moved them, they unthreaded fine with my fingers. They look rusty, but maybe they are stainless that has slight rust. I’m not sure if they make those fittings in regular steel. The hoses don’t look great, but they don’t look terrible either.
It looks like some had a fairly serious accident with this. The front is heavy duty if you hit something head on, but the underside is not well protected. There was a big up wards dent in the floor and a giant hydro hose was torn open. I believe that’s where most of the fluid leaked out. That hose must be either a feed line or a return from the main supply to the motors. (It’s like 1 1/2”)
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
Lucky you. Now you know it wasn't parked for some other harder to fix reason.
How do you know they didn't run it out of fluid and trash the pumps?
From the sounds of it this thing was used as a test vehicle and I bet it wasn't treated very nice.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Likely around 5-8 gallons per minute. Much better than .8gpm.
As long as the threads are clean enough to thread on smoothly and mating surfaces are smooth, they should be fine.
Hoses will probably be ok for testing, but if the outer covering is cracked, the steel braid underneath is probably rusted and they could spring a leak unexpectedly.
One thing I would do is to flush everything out with air or push out what's there with hydraulic fluid.
I would not under any circumstances let the fluid in that system go back into your tractor if it is a "modern compact tractor" until it has been flushed out (This goes doubly if your tractor is a hydrostatic or wet clutch shifted tractor)
You don't know what they used for fluid and it may be incompatible with what's in your tractor (say aircraft hydraulic fluid?).
Good to know that it was likely parked for a reason.
My only concern there would be if they kept running it after it ran out of fluid until something broke, because if they did there may be shrapnel from the pump throughout the system.
I would probably have anything returning to your tractor go back through a "disposable" valve and then a filter or at least a mesh screen until you have flushed out all the hydraulic systems.
I would probably vent whatever fluid is in there into a bucket, let it sit and see what settles to the bottom (and if water separates out).
I might even put a mesh strainer such as this in first:
Aaron Z
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
I don't but it's unlikely to get run with that kind of disregard in a test environment. Sure, put Ashke behind the controls and he'll make it happen but test personnel don't tend to be in the business of turning easily fixable breakages into hard to fix ones.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
If it ruptured a suction line it died fairly quickly then the puddle insued draining the tank.
Imo the hydraulics will be fine enough to evaluate going further once the prime mover is operational.
Get the leaks fixed and engine running.
You could test each component with the tractor but that's gonna be labor intensive, likely will require re-hosing the machine due to age and might burn through some cash to figure out something that might not be that useful.
Imo the hydraulics will be fine enough to evaluate going further once the prime mover is operational.
Get the leaks fixed and engine running.
You could test each component with the tractor but that's gonna be labor intensive, likely will require re-hosing the machine due to age and might burn through some cash to figure out something that might not be that useful.
WaterH
Well-known member
Obviously, this could have happened. I believe the hole is in the return line. So would I be correct in thinking if they ran it till it stopped, the wheel motors would be still good? The pumps on the engine could be hurt. How fast would a pump be hurt from lack of fluid? I’m sure it would stop almost immediately, but I would think there should be enough residue to keep it lubed long enough for some idiot to shut it down.
I noticed the odometer has only about 500 miles on it.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
It's hard to say, they are axial piston pumps and have some brass feet running on a steel swash plate with a brass port plate on the other end.
When there is no oil=load the forces are low but if ran long enough the brass can smear and rip the feet off. That is highly unlikely. The pump case is flooded in oil "case drain" and likely didn't drain at the hose failure.
At any rate it's not much of issue with so many parts in question.
Just looking at the terrible pictures you have provided 🤣 the pumps seem to be off the shelf type.
aczlan
Good Morning!
If it was a suction line, it would have stopped almost immediately. Residual lube probably would have kept it okay for a few minutes depending on how much attention the driver is paying and what gauges they had available.
Personally, I would drain out your tank, fix the broken line, fill the tank with whatever the cheapest hydraulic fluid that meets at least one of the following standards:
1. Kubota SUDT
2. Kubota SUDT2
3. Deere J20C
4. Deere J20D
(note, the Deere J20A that many tout is from the days of whale oil)
Make sure that it says it is good for wet brakes and clutches.
Then try to start the engine and cycle things from there (may have to cycle solenoids with a pair of test leads)
Plan on changing the oil as soon as it's working and make sure there is a filter on the return line.
Alternatively, physically disconnect the pumps while you get the engine running.
Aaron Z
I'd probably use AW32 or AW46 from TSC or O'Reilly for initial testing. I don't think "tractor fluid" would be right for his application.