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Anyone help me not waste money?

My daughter is joining the school team and it is being described as cross country mountain biking. The practices would be more rugged terrain, the races are almost groomed trails, lots of kids (fastest kids) on hard tails.

The only thing I know about bikes is they fall over if you stop peddling them.

We just went to Giant and Trek. Trek had her on a small men's frame, with 29" tires said it fit perfect. Giant said she needs a woman's bike and her on a a small ladies with 27.5's and then a men's small with 29" tires.

My daughter is 5'1, I doubt she be more than 5'6.

Are 29" tires too big? Why did my daughter like the feel of the men's frame over the "Liv" branded ladies?

very few companies offer women's specific models these days, so don't get to caught up on that Liv has women's frames and touch points, Juliana is just Santa Cruz with different colors, and I think other companies just have different touch points on their women's models.

Trek's bikes are unisex, no men's or women's. Just the bikes.

29's will be universally faster than a 27.5

what did they have her on, and what is your budget?
 
His kids interested in biking, presumably sometimes with him. Let him spend some cash on a bike and two sets of wheels. Don't shit in his cheerios this early. :flipoff2:

if shes going to be competitive then she needs a hardtail. if shes testing the water for a new activity, a short travel fs will be a better experience or he spends all his money for a fancy fs xc machine.
 
if shes going to be competitive then she needs a hardtail. if shes testing the water for a new activity, a short travel fs will be a better experience or he spends all his money for a fancy fs xc machine.

why a hardtail?
 
RANT stupid ebikes. local spot is setup so you can lap some downhill sections. good fun, the trail back up is a grind and has a ton of switchbacks. dumb ebikes are cutting 4-5 switchbacks just straight up the hill. taking the lazy to the next level.

E-bikers in my area seem to think that the rules don't apply to them. I let every e-biker know that they are not allowed in my local trails, and that if they want access, they should group together and petition the BLM manager. They get all butthurt, and if they were as good at biking as throwing temper tantrums, they might not need the electric motor...
Unfortunately, there seems to be more and more of them breaking the rules every day.
 
I'll be honest I hate the attitude of some of them. I could actually benefit from a E-bike but I don't want to get grouped in with that crap. I've only run into a few out riding that weren't dicks. I guess it's kinda like not wanting a Jeep cause of the grumper/rubber ducky crowd but whatever.
 
if shes going to be competitive then she needs a hardtail. if shes testing the water for a new activity, a short travel fs will be a better experience or he spends all his money for a fancy fs xc machine.
Second this- if she's just testing the waters, maybe even try using the word "downcountry" at the bike shop. It's sort of a more forgiving version of an XC bike with more suspension travel and relaxed geometry, but doesn't pedal as hard.

If she's serious about wanting to go out there and try to win races, XC hardtail will all the light stuff on it, and learn to smash rough stuff with it.
why a hardtail?
Lighter and more efficient and putting the power down(there's no suspension back there to absorb any of your energy when pedaling, and they'll probably lock out the front fork on sprints).

Not my cup of tea, but it's probably because I'm old and my body hates absorbing most of the bumps on a 40 mile ride. Teenagers can bust that out no problem.
 
Second this- if she's just testing the waters, maybe even try using the word "downcountry" at the bike shop. It's sort of a more forgiving version of an XC bike with more suspension travel and relaxed geometry, but doesn't pedal as hard.

If she's serious about wanting to go out there and try to win races, XC hardtail will all the light stuff on it, and learn to smash rough stuff with it.

Lighter and more efficient and putting the power down(there's no suspension back there to absorb any of your energy when pedaling, and they'll probably lock out the front fork on sprints).

Not my cup of tea, but it's probably because I'm old and my body hates absorbing most of the bumps on a 40 mile ride. Teenagers can bust that out no problem.
hardtails aren't necessarily more efficient. the rear suspension often keeps your rear wheel on the ground giving you better traction and less bouncing.

Kind of like reducing tire pressure on road bikes is usually more efficient versus 110-120 psi.
 
E-bikers in my area seem to think that the rules don't apply to them. I let every e-biker know that they are not allowed in my local trails, and that if they want access, they should group together and petition the BLM manager. They get all butthurt, and if they were as good at biking as throwing temper tantrums, they might not need the electric motor...
Unfortunately, there seems to be more and more of them breaking the rules every day.
Found the Fed. :flipoff2:
 
Anyone help me not waste money?

My daughter is joining the school team and it is being described as cross country mountain biking. The practices would be more rugged terrain, the races are almost groomed trails, lots of kids (fastest kids) on hard tails.

The only thing I know about bikes is they fall over if you stop peddling them.

We just went to Giant and Trek. Trek had her on a small men's frame, with 29" tires said it fit perfect. Giant said she needs a woman's bike and her on a a small ladies with 27.5's and then a men's small with 29" tires.

My daughter is 5'1, I doubt she be more than 5'6.

Are 29" tires too big? Why did my daugter like the feel of the men's frame over the "Liv" branded ladies?
The bike that she is most comfortable on is the right bike. Also make sure you are shopping at a shop that will give you a discount for her being on the team. The team might be sponsored by a specific shop but others around will probably give a discount as well. Our local shop had a good discount on Giant and a real good discount on Cannondale.
If she is new to riding I might look at more of a all mountain trail bike than a hardcore XC bike or at least look for a slacker headtube of the choices. She can't be fast if she is scared. 29" wheels generally role faster and get up and over stuff easier. A few brands don't even use small to XL anymore but 1 - 5 sizing and the chart states where you fit in the range. You can get a LIV in a XS and it has a 1/2" shorter reach than the same bike S in the men's under Giant.
 
E-bikers in my area seem to think that the rules don't apply to them. I let every e-biker know that they are not allowed in my local trails, and that if they want access, they should group together and petition the BLM manager. They get all butthurt, and if they were as good at biking as throwing temper tantrums, they might not need the electric motor...
Unfortunately, there seems to be more and more of them breaking the rules every day.
Those sound like the kind of ebikers that didn't do regular bikes before they bought something with a motor.

Our local ebikers are the ones who built the good trails that people have been riding since '95 and have taken it upon themselves to continue to do that with ebikes. Of course nobody talks about access here because then no one would have trails:
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Also no one cares if someone pedaled to the top with a motor or not, unless they're all on a ride together. Then the ebikes are not allowed to lead out, or they can bust a bonus loop and meet us at the top for the main descent.
 
I like Sandy's suggestions of a down country bike with lockouts. Also you're probably going to want to have the suspension resolved for her weight. At ~100# she's definitely outside of the normal range of 170# +/- 10# suspension is set up for.
 
hardtails aren't necessarily more efficient. the rear suspension often keeps your rear wheel on the ground giving you better traction and less bouncing.

Kind of like reducing tire pressure on road bikes is usually more efficient versus 110-120 psi.
Horses for courses. He says they'll be racing on smooth trails. Hardtails are more efficient on smooth trails.
 
Horses for courses. He says they'll be racing on smooth trails. Hardtails are more efficient on smooth trails.

Compared to the earth, our most popular trails are as smooth as it gets and the fastest xc riders are almost all on Epics or supercalibers. Including the older and faster NICA kids

Not that it matters for an entry level 14 year old. I’d find a good used bike to test the waters and upgrade when she grows a bit. Probably 27.5, a 29” wheel will be massive for her
 
The most asshole things my E-bike friends do on mixed rides is put it in boost and wheelie past the Amish on climbs while saying how much they love their motor. :flipoff2: But we also are called gay 20 times a day on social media so I think it is justified.
 
The most asshole things my E-bike friends do on mixed rides is put it in boost and wheelie past the Amish on climbs while saying how much they love their motor. :flipoff2: But we also are called gay 20 times a day on social media so I think it is justified.
CFF23A6E-B73E-42C8-8490-53D3A17D65A9.gif
 
Similar to 29ers being faster across the board, full suspension will be faster every time off road.

Is she joining a team because she thinks riding bikes is fun and wants to go fast with her friends?

Or is she joining because she has a competitive drive and wants to win?

What's the bike budget?

Is her school team part of NICA? Some brands have a NICA discount.
 
Compared to the earth, our most popular trails are as smooth as it gets and the fastest xc riders are almost all on Epics or supercalibers. Including the older and faster NICA kids

Not that it matters for an entry level 14 year old. I’d find a good used bike to test the waters and upgrade when she grows a bit. Probably 27.5, a 29” wheel will be massive for her
Our local highschool A group XC Team is a pack of savages. I'm pretty sure they've put down a faster time to the top of our local hill than me on a casual ebike ride, and they come ripping down at mach chicken on full blown xc hardtails high posting all the way because dropper posts add weight.

For a several years this dude was the local team's head coach and I think a bit of the competitiveness rubbed off on them:
Doug Chandler - Wikipedia
 
Our local highschool A group XC Team is a pack of savages. I'm pretty sure they've put down a faster time to the top of our local hill than me on a casual ebike ride, and they come ripping down at mach chicken on full blown xc hardtails high posting all the way because dropper posts add weight.

For a several years this dude was the local team's head coach and I think a bit of the competitiveness rubbed off on them:
Doug Chandler - Wikipedia
You need to take it on yourself to tell them they're going to damn fast and having fun! No fun allowed! :laughing:
 
Similar to 29ers being faster across the board, full suspension will be faster every time off road.
Disagree. On smooth trails you'll always get more efficient climbing out of a hardtail. You can make up most of your time on climbs when racing XC, which is probably why most of the fast kids he's talking about are racing hardtails.
 
You need to take it on yourself to tell them they're going to damn fast and having fun! No fun allowed! :laughing:
Ha! My wife help coach the women's side for a few years. There are all sorts of crazy league rules they have to follow, like no drifting or wheelies I think. She may have looked the other way on a few of those during group rides.
 
Disagree. On smooth trails you'll always get more efficient climbing out of a hardtail. You can make up most of your time on climbs when racing XC, which is probably why most of the fast kids he's talking about are racing hardtails.
Maybe on lap 1.

Suspension will lead to less fatigue, which will end up being faster overall.

Put them maniac kids on some suspension and I guarantee they will be faster overall.


Also. I am NOT saying don't buy a hardtail. Full suspension is heavier, more expensive, and more to maintain. If a full suspension bike isn't in the cards then don't hesitate with the hardtail. I'm just arguing the old adages of "learn on a hardtail first" or the myth that the hardtail is better for XC.
 
I coach Nica in Arkansas. There is a huge difference between riding, and trying to be competitive. Others have mentioned a downcountry bike. I would agree with this. My son rides a trek top fuel, I ride a spot ryve, these are our versions of xc bikes. I also have a hard tail and a bigger bike. Although I ride the down country bike the most.

If you are in Nica, use the Nica discounts. If not, see if the team you are joining has an agreement with a local bike shop. If you can, attend a 'bike fest", there is one here in NW Arkansas this month I believe. Many bike shops and venders show up and let people demo bikes. To let her ride a few different types is a great idea.
 
If she wants to be competitive she will be, the little gal is a fucking monster.

Coach said the same thing, hardtail is faster. Kids winning are on carbon hardtails wearing data monitors counting their strokes.

Trek will give 25% off due to the team, Giant is 30% off on regular sale. She was most comfortable on mens small frames, with 29" tires. They had those auto seats which helped her adjust.

Trek guy said weight is not too much of an issue. He stressed the races would be groomed trails, her practices would be rougher. He also mentioned a Top Fuel has less suspension travel than a Fuel and would be better for cross country. Like Giant, the Trance vs Stance. Trek had a carbon hardtail with a joint in the frame where it flexes, I liked that bike.

Both places said I would be amazed how fast she goes through hardware on the bike, I don't know enough to know where the break over point is on going from a Trek Fuel 5-6-7-8 for better hardware etc. I need to read more, she is in a hurry. :laughing:
 
If she wants to be competitive she will be, the little gal is a fucking monster.

Coach said the same thing, hardtail is faster. Kids winning are on carbon hardtails wearing data monitors counting their strokes.

Trek will give 25% off due to the team, Giant is 30% off on regular sale. She was most comfortable on mens small frames, with 29" tires. They had those auto seats which helped her adjust.

Trek guy said weight is not too much of an issue. He stressed the races would be groomed trails, her practices would be rougher. He also mentioned a Top Fuel has less suspension travel than a Fuel and would be better for cross country. Like Giant, the Trance vs Stance. Trek had a carbon hardtail with a joint in the frame where it flexes, I liked that bike.

Both places said I would be amazed how fast she goes through hardware on the bike, I don't know enough to know where the break over point is on going from a Trek Fuel 5-6-7-8 for better hardware etc. I need to read more, she is in a hurry. :laughing:
Very few of the top racers locally ride hard tails, the few that do are extremely good riders though. I understand about components. I started my son off on a low level bike, then purchased a Marin Rift zone 3, then graduated to a top fuel 8. I hated spending that kind of money on a kids bike, however... I have rebuilt the parts on it instead of having to buy and upgrade parts on it later, that has saved a ton of money. I have several kids on YT's, few on polygon's and many on giants and trek's. No matter the brand of bike, the bike with better components always has a longer interval between service. I would look at pro's closet, pink bike, and face book marketplace. Below is an example of a good deal on a great bike, not high spec, but decent build.

 
She was most comfortable on mens small frames, with 29" tires. They had those auto seats which helped her adjust.
Don't buy into the hype of the whole "women's frame" things. Those that actually change the geometry for women didn't' fair well, and most of the others just rebranded their normal bikes with different colors and MAYBE put thinner grips on the bike.

Source: mountain biker wife and other female friends who ride.
 
NICA, that is the team she is signed up for

Top Fuel 8 (this is the bike we spent the most time with): Trek Top Fuel 8

I did notice the top fuel in carbon was lighter, but not light like the hard tail in carbon.

We are not hung up on trek or giant.

Does giant make trek and specialized? Claimed they did at the store.
 
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