That is a consideration, but there are very good reasons that hydraulic winches are pretty much the standard in any commercial application. Honestly, anything would be better than the Horrible Fright synthetic rope winch he has on there now. At least a worm drive electric if one had to go electric. But Hydraulic or mechanical PTO would be best for a long pull.
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Matt's Off Road Recovery.
- Thread starter billdacat
- Start date
aczlan
Good Morning!
Using biodegradable hydraulic fluid and using standard/end length hoses would help with the risk/expense of cleanup after a blown line.
I guess the question would be how much time they spend on long pulls. If they spend little to no time doing long pulls, it makes no sense to use hydraulic winches.
Aaron Z
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
Trying to drag a Unimog troop carrier up a sandhill using two Warn 8500 HS winches blew up the alternator in my buddies TJ, and just about killed the battery in my Toyota PU when my little 60a alternator couldn't keep up. It didn't die, but it wasn't happy.
I don’t see much for long pulling in the future of this. I thought he said it was for getting to the stuff in the bigger trails in Sand Hollow. So built Jeeps on 40s and buggies fully stranded/dead in the cracks and slots. Between other rigs in the group or bringing the Morvair and/or Banana to assist with pulling. Getting it within range of the wrecker to hook up and the. drag back to the trailer. Being around here, it also helps to know that once you get out of trails, it’s mostly downhill back to pavement.
bigun
Red Skull Member
Don't worry he has an Chevy engine all is good!
Wizzle
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2020
- Member Number
- 2793
- Messages
- 225
Hey what do I know only did recoveries for 10 years and have wreckmaster and other certifications. I guess I should be mindful I’m not on a recovery site and on irate.WTF DUDE, you do understand this is only to get the vehicle out to the road then they can put it on a trailer if need be. For work like you are talking about he has a rollback truck.
I would really like to see any of your builds. Instead of Wizzle I think your name should be Whiney
For a site that spends an awful lot of time critiquing builds it sure is odd you guys are defending Holmes 440/660 style booms and electric winches. They’ve been retired from the industry for decades now. Even the military has moved away from that and they wrote the book on techniques and set standard.
you don’t need a build for this shit. Any 4x4 f550/550 or 4800 or even a singled deuce will do the job. Super singles help massively. BSF, hill top and all the guys on beaches use it there’s nothing special or considered a build.
Someone above mentioned he’s partnered with heavy D so that makes sense with the click bait.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not?
im not sure if you’re joking either…
Biodegradable fluid has been around for what 10 years?
This thread has been nothing but hate of Matt but I guess now I’ll take it? Odd how this group can change so many times. Kind of feel like you guys are arguing just to argue.
are you new here?
Wheelerfreak
Stunningly Average
If you watch the trail mater videos by Rory he answers the questions of why he has his wrecker set up the way he does. In the videos anyway, he only does recoveries off-road on the trails around Moab. His rig seems to do damn well hauling broken rigs out of trails like Pritchett Canyon etc.
Matt is copying his wrecker in a lot of ways because of how well TM does in those situations.
Matt is copying his wrecker in a lot of ways because of how well TM does in those situations.
94toytruck
Eastcoast crawler
aczlan
Good Morning!
Well, MY guesses as to why he "needs" this would include:
1. Advertising - A bright yellow "different" truck will make it stick out and it's his "trademark" (see the banana, morvair, etc)
2. Power and capability vs weight - This (from what I see) will let him get into a lot of places that a duece, F450/F550, etc wouldn't think of going without as least as much work as he is putting into this and if he is building the drive line to match the axles, it should hold up to stuff that a F450/F550 would break doing.
3. Because he wants to - His channel is apparently doing well enough to pay for building this.
4. Views for the build - How many views has he gotten on his videos building this and resultant "additional views" from those people continuing on to watch his other videos who wouldn't have otherwise seen his channel (or the "affiliated" channels for the others mentioned in the videos).
5. Uniqueness and interest due to that (ties into 4) - I guarantee that he would have had a LOT less views if he was building a "boring" F450/F550 to similar capabilities.
6. Simplicity/reliability - He should have a LOT less that could break and leave him stuck on the side of the trail (when he is supposed to be helping someone else) with this vs most anything else.
Comparing this to beach recoveries for some of what he does is valid, but the trail recoveries in many cases would need something a lot more capable.
Aaron Z
bigun
Red Skull Member
He is not partnered with Heavy Dumbass they live in the same state and Matt called him on a recovery he knew was out of his wheel house.
Several times he has pointed out that beach sand is totally different than what they deal with, their is more like dust, which is why folks are always getting stuck, break though the crust and down you go
That shit is in Stevenson Ca, and is bottomless.
bigun
Red Skull Member
White sands is gypsum dust,
4x4mechanic
Web Wheeler...
Nope, no inserts >YET<. He replied in the comments, I think this was just a mock-up assembly and not the final...
blakes
Red Skull Member
is the general consensus that he is a 'quack' or what? the vids I've seen seem all about show and NOT AT ALL about real world recovery. maybe I haven't seen the right vids...
6gun
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2020
- Member Number
- 1975
- Messages
- 64
Post up your YouTube channel and we'll see how many views you have for your "Exciting rescues" using box stock run of the mill wreckers. That ain't what his stuff is about! He's doing great for himself doing it his way and I'm sure he's gonna be crushed when he hears you don't approve! I know I am!
Provience
Kill!
Yup, run of the mill would be much more boring.
But hydraulic power is still mich better than electric and wouldn't cost him any cool points
Captain Call
No
And now my kids need a forklift.
I laughed at that shit. Knowing Sparks, it was probably staged/made up, but the little forklift was cool.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Hydraulic power costs weight and money though.
Figure a 17gpm system, you would need at least a 10-12 gallon hydraulic tank ($300ish), hydraulic lines (minimum 0.75" pressure and 1.5" suction lines, figure $500-1000 to start with), 2+ solenoid valves ($1000ish?), a hydraulic cooler somewhere with a fan on it ($300ish), a pump on the engine in the serpentine belt path ($750ish), cylinder(s) ($100-300 each), at least one hydraulic winch ($2800), etc AND space to mount it and make it look like a "clean" install.
By the time you put all that together they would probably be pushing $6-8k (I got $6k with 1 winch and 1 cylinder on solenoid valves), not counting their time to set it up and make sure it worked properly and they didn't have undersized lines, too many elbows or other restrictions in the flow path (and most of that time would be "boring" and not interesting enough to put on their channel).
If they don't currently need hydraulic winches to do recoveries the way that they do, why would they change things for this one truck versus having everything work pretty much the same on all of their vehicles?
Running a couple heavy cables for power and heavy alternator (or two) is a lot easier and cheaper.
Aaron Z
Provience
Kill!
Price is a non starter. Talking a couple grand for a rock solid kickass system, not tens of thousands.
Leave out the cylinders, just use chains, but for the inch, absolutely it would be far superior. 17 gpm is pretty excessive as well. If this is the rig for the heavier amd more awkward things, a system which just won't die and has longevity would be worth it
Leave out the cylinders, just use chains, but for the inch, absolutely it would be far superior. 17 gpm is pretty excessive as well. If this is the rig for the heavier amd more awkward things, a system which just won't die and has longevity would be worth it
Last edited:
aczlan
Good Morning!
Make/model of the awesome winch for this system?
17GPM was what I found as "normal" for a rollback with a 10,000# deck capacity and that was the smallest assembled clutch belt driven pump I found on Surplus Center.
Winches in that class all want up to 15GPM
For a winch I used a Ramsey HDG-350: HDG-350 - but a Warn Series G2 12 is similar ($500 cheaper): Series G2 12 Hydraulic Winch - 4.0ci motor - CW - Manual Clutch - 105445 as is their 9 series: Series 9 Industrial Hydraulic Winch - 7,500 lb - 30279
All recommend 10-15GPM.
Aaron Z
Have done 30Klb hydraulic winch setups.
$10K minimum especially at todays prices and inflation $15K.
$10K minimum especially at todays prices and inflation $15K.
Provience
Kill!
Gpm depends on how fast ya spin it, but yes I was thinking of a warn or Ramsey and in my head about 12 gpm, with is, what like 75% of 17gpm? So yeah, excessive
Either way, easy peasy. And far superior for long use and questionable heavy use versus electric. Too much? Just won't lift. Won't burn up anything or stress any parts
I was thinking more along the lines of a Braden AMSU10 30k. They can be had used for under $5k. But yeah, way more than a couple grand. If you could get by with a small Ramsey, they are much more reasonable and pretty common on rollbacks and the like. I just keep thinking about big drag winches for recovery with a "big truck". That and I just love worm drive winches.
Provience
Kill!
Not sure their chopped up truck has enough ass to justify a 30k winch. I dunno. I'd take a 10 or 20k winch Hydraulic over an electric for random picking up of cars from holesI was thinking more along the lines of a Braden AMSU10 30k. They can be had used for under $5k. But yeah, way more than a couple grand. If you could get by with a small Ramsey, they are much more reasonable and pretty common on rollbacks and the like. I just keep thinking about big drag winches for recovery with a "big truck". That and I just love worm drive winches.
Agreed, but they would be unlikely to break a 30k winch and the cost difference isn't that much more over something in the 20k range in an industrial winch. But it would add a ton of weight and complexity to the truck. Still, a 30k on the back and a nice 10k-20k on the front would be awesome.