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Junkyard 609 axles
- Thread starter Dan
- Start date
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
i understand that weakness part.
JDNobodi
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I think he bought the smaller spool.
Disclaimer......I'm still planning and haven't proven this out yet!! So take this "TECH" as a theory to be proven in the coming months.
I'm building at set of steering axles (both passenger drop F&R steer) following what Dan did. Stock Ford 3.25" big web centers and Dana 50 tubes and outers. I plan to try and use both tubes by removing them from the Dana 50 center. Long I feel like will work....the short may be too short for what I have planned.
The difference is that I'm building mine to use Stock of the shelf Chevy Length (17.67" short & 35.07" long) axle shafts. I ran a Chevy 60 for years and have 3 brand new sets of inner axles (two 4340 sets of inners and one CTM 300M Set of inners all machined already for 50*) so I'm going to use them.
Using off the shelf shafts all with raised seal area's and splines set up for a dana 60 creates an issue since the 9" has splines inside that differ that aren't centered left to right. For me that means that one side will have the raised seal area on the shaft inside the 3rd member.
So I started hunting for 35 spline spools that are splined all the way through. For my build I wanted a number of things. 1)Cheap. doesn't get cheaper than a off the shelf spool. 2) light. doesn't get lighter than a spool. 3) K.I.S.S. I want a simple easy to drive and maintain buggy. Again Spool is as simple and as strong as it gets.
What I found so far is this from Quick Performance. Part number F9DR35X
Per the web site this spool moved the splines to the ends of the spool which for me allows me to place the seals in the ends of the tubes in the housing. My plan is to just have tubes extend into the housing so that I can put a standard Dana 60 seal in the end of the tube and have it fall on the raised seal area that my shafts all have. I work at a machine shop so machining the seal area's into the tubes isn't an issue for me. By Allowing the tubes to stick into the factory center farther than factory I'm hoping to put a brace on the end of the tube like a lot of the aftermarket housings do.
Based on the length of the seal area on my shafts I'm going to try and put two stock Dana 60 seals in the end of each tube because why not.
As of now what I think I know is that this spool would require a "conversion bearing" IF used in a 3.25" case (nodular case). I emailed Quick Performance a couple of times asking if they had a spool with the splines at the ends for 3.25" cases but got no response. I haven't decided yet what 3rd member I'm going to run. I have plenty of 3.06" cases that I can use. I'd prefer Nodular for Strength or Aluminum for weight but Budget may mean that I use what I have which works perfectly with this Spool.
Building this way does mean I don't control the WMS of my axle. Since the spool length, the inner axles shafts length and the outers are all set the WMS is going to be what its going to be. I'm ok with that!! I haven't done exact math but the 9" spool, I THINK is going to be narrower than a Dana 60 center. Then there may be a difference between the king pin outers and the 99-04. Stock Chevy front was 67" so I think I'll be between 63"-69" WMS front and rear which is fine with me. I'd even be ok if by some miracle it ends up at 72". WMS is not really a concern for me at this point. I will build around it.
Building around this spool also means that if I EVER want to switch to a locker of any kind I'll need new inner axle shafts. This is a concern as I've wheeled with ARB's for a long time. So spools will take some getting used to. I'm hoping Rear Steer and taking advantage of FWD or RWD options will help with that.
I'm still a couple of weeks away from ordering parts and starting on the housings to prove this theory out. I'm building these for my current build but i'm not in ANY rush! I'm building them for fun because I LOVED the Housing that Dan built! So while it's budget thats not my goal. I just wanted a cool project to work on.
If anyone knows for SURE of another 9" spool that moves the splines to the ends instead of the factory placement Please let me know! I may also look at using inner seals like Landy_Andy posted for a couple of reasons i'll explain later IF i do that.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Yeah that’s what they’re talking about there, the actual OD of the stock carriers at the carrier bearing press surface is pretty small when you’re looking at stuffing a 35 spline shaft through the middle, which is what led to the aftermarket bumping up to larger bearings. Interesting note on the spline lengths being different for those small bearing 35 spline spools, probably in a hunt to gain more strength out there at the bearing surface. But also means if you go that route, you’re stuck with it because the shafts you get wouldn’t fit any future upgraded 3rd.
I have a friend that blew apart a handful of stock 3rd members on 31 spline shafts back in the day, so IMO the only time to go 35 spline is with an aftermarket 3rd
I have a friend that blew apart a handful of stock 3rd members on 31 spline shafts back in the day, so IMO the only time to go 35 spline is with an aftermarket 3rd
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
and you get on quick s site and a complete 3rd 35 spline is $1k with a spool. so there is that
i am starting to understand the lure to these axles for sure.
i am starting to understand the lure to these axles for sure.
94toytruck
Eastcoast crawler
Big pinion spline or stock? A stock 9 has a tiny pinion.
Sean
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Yeah...make sure you're getting the 35 spline pinion, not the 28. Quick Performance usually has these farther down in the drop down menu for the gears, but they are named "Pro"...prefixed before the ratio and you may need to call to make sure don't end up with a 35 spline pinion 'drag race' R&P that is softer for shockloading by accident. The 35 spline stuff also costs anywhere from $150-500 more and has more limited gear ratio options.
What went wrong? Ordered 28 spline?
Is the 35 spline pinion a $300 dollar upgrade? Asking because I’ve never seen that site before. Where I get gears from there are no “options” 35 spline is the only option.
I do not. But I’m curious if anyone figures it out.
Sean
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Guessing some are the 'softer' gears not designed for street use....not sure which are which though. Don't know what the LW or AX prefixes on QP's site mean either....price increase is like $40 to $150 for those.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
So I'd like to chime in just to play devils advocate for a second. I'm all for the buy once cry once mentality, but if you happen to be pinching pennies while trying to get the most bang for your buck, I don't think you absolutely need all the upgrades like 35 spline pinion, 9310 alloy, and load bolt 3rds. Depending on the scale of the build of course, like a crazy build with high HP or big stickies probably isn't pinching pennies as hard.
Back when I put my stuff together I grabbed the cheapest Strange N2206 non load bolt cases and 28 spline pinion gears. It's treated me pretty well over the years. I broke 1310, 1330, and 1350 ujoints with mostly no issues from the gears. I did take two ring gear teeth off the rear axle and broke the axle side ujoint once by pogoing off the rear axle with a manual transmission and not catching the clutch in time. In that one I think it was actually the (lack of) rigidity from the detroit that allowed the locker to deflect so a load bolt definitely would have helped, but the pinion was undamaged.
All that to say top tier is definitely best, but budget bling is alright too
Back when I put my stuff together I grabbed the cheapest Strange N2206 non load bolt cases and 28 spline pinion gears. It's treated me pretty well over the years. I broke 1310, 1330, and 1350 ujoints with mostly no issues from the gears. I did take two ring gear teeth off the rear axle and broke the axle side ujoint once by pogoing off the rear axle with a manual transmission and not catching the clutch in time. In that one I think it was actually the (lack of) rigidity from the detroit that allowed the locker to deflect so a load bolt definitely would have helped, but the pinion was undamaged.
All that to say top tier is definitely best, but budget bling is alright too
Sean
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That's the thing though....these prebuilt thirds from ECGS and QP are definitely budget bling. They have some nice parts to start with (Nodular 3rds from name brands like Strange, Moser and Yukon) with the ability to upgrade within a budget....like the 35 spline pinions for a few hundred upcharge. I paid $1345 for 4.56s,Yukon Nodular 3.25 and 35 spline spool with Toyota flanges (they also added the outermost pinion oil slinger most 9" builders leave off since they were going to be flipped and going in portal housings). I'd have gladly spent another couple hundred for 35 spline pinions (and had Jesse at High Angle make up some Toyota pattern 35 spline driveline flanges and just sent 'em to ECGS to build with). That's pretty darn cheap....and talking to ECGS via the phone....they can get and build you 3rds from Gear Works if you want the load bolt option (although...IIRC, they were only like $350-450 direct from GW...if you want to build it yourself).
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Small Pinion
Big Pinion
Sean
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Ahhh!!! Thanks!
Shit, not many options in the BP ratios though....4.86 was the lowest I recall seeing.
Do you happen to know what LW and AX mean?
LW is Yukon lightweight gears
AX is Motive lightweight gears
Sean
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And I'm assuming those are both 28 spline pinions....
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
And I honestly don't disagree that they have value. But 9"s are one of those axles where you can always spend "a couple hundred more" to make them even mo' betta'.
Chaplin was looking at a $350 assembled 3rd he could add a $150 spool to, so all I was saying he could get from there to an IMO sufficient build without tripling or quadrupling the expected expense. He could probably build a small pinion 35 spline spool 3rd for like $700-800 with cheap parts, and still be satisfied with the outcome
I think it was discussed awhile back in the 9” ratios school thread but it seems like no one is making big pinion 9” pro gears any lower than 4.86 currently. Yukon discontinued theirs. If you need big pinion and lower ratio then you have to step up to 10” gears.Ahhh!!! Thanks!
Shit, not many options in the BP ratios though....4.86 was the lowest I recall seeing.
Do you happen to know what LW and AX mean?
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Sean
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I clearly wasn't keeping up with what he was wanting to spend. Apologies for speaking out of turn.
Yes
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Like any thread they wander
. Today's discussion started with:some silly questions. lets say i found a carrier can i just change it to a 35 spline spool and reuse the gears.
Which is probably a bad idea due to the weak stock cases, but all I was saying is he probably doesn't have to get wild with the budget to get one built with stronger parts.
Now all that said, the next 3rds I build for myself will probably be load bolt and/or 35 spline pinion, but I've been completely satisfied with my mid level 3rd builds
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chaplinfj60
Well-known member
i missed whats this for
665.0coupe
Red Skull Member
I'm pretty sure they thread on the spindle threads and the alignment bar slides inside to align the spindles with each other and the carrier bearings.
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
i was thinking that but did not see where he talked about them but i feel like he did. ahhahah
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
so back to the rear axle. just to help me under stand the alignment process of spindles and center section. so them Aluminum alignment thread on pucks hold the center of the spindle at each side, now do you put carrier caps on each side of the center section and make a bushing that is dead center there and have 4 spots that your alignment bars lands on to get the axles centered on the carrier and spindles.
thanks
and do i have to use a 35 spine center section or will any work because they all have the same center line if thats the correct term.
thanks
and do i have to use a 35 spine center section or will any work because they all have the same center line if thats the correct term.
665.0coupe
Red Skull Member
The alignment pucks go where the bearings go, so you don't use any carrier, 35 spline or otherwise. If you get a case that has 3.25" carrier bearings, then your alignment pucks will have a 3.25" OD.
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
so what keeps the alignment bar centered here. because i could see it being high on one side and low on the other but still in the alignment puck.
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
your pic just came in coop. so that is what i was talking about to pucks there and one on each end of the axle? am i understanding it correct?