Junkyard 609 axles

[Rangerrod]

Yes. I asked Adamwende a while back. With that said, I have Dodge knuckles/UB on my 99-04 60. Carry a factory UB/stub as a trail spare just in case I need to 3 wheel out.

Why run those unit bearings with that axle? Bolt pattern? Just curious.

 

[benw]

Why run those unit bearings with that axle? Bolt pattern? Just curious.

One reason is the knuckles have pretty high steering arms for an OEM knuckle.

 

[fl0w3n]

Dan did I miss info on your front shafts? Did you build around factory shaft lengths and if so, what applications?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

One reason is the knuckles have pretty high steering arms for an OEM knuckle.

Since we're in the budget thread, another advantage would be not having to redrill or buy 8x6.5 pattern, then bore for 35 spline stubs, then buy drive flanges or locking hubs.

 

[Dan]

Dan did I miss info on your front shafts? Did you build around factory shaft lengths and if so, what applications?

Both shafts are custom length, closest I could have gotten is moving the pinion center out a couple inches and using a short side shaft from a 78/79 snowfighter with a new polish for the seal. It’s already a bastard so I decided to tailor the axle to best fit the truck and deal with custom length junk. I have enough shaft left on the D50 to cut and respline for the long side, 2 random length 35 spline shafts from a rear steer axle I can have cut and splined for the short side, then I only have to buy 1 new long side shaft and I have a set of spares.

ETA: I’ll buy the shafts when I finish another axle I’m building and need shafts for that.

 

[Landy_Andy]

Dan did I miss info on your front shafts? Did you build around factory shaft lengths and if so, what applications?

I’m using these standard length shafts in my build, will have the exact WMS/WMS next week once I tack in the tubes. I just had the raised seal lands turned off & polished for the tube seals.

 

[fl0w3n]

I’m using these standard length shafts in my build, will have the exact WMS/WMS next week once I tack in the tubes. I just had the raised seal lands turned off & polished for the tube seals.

Thanks. Tell me more about why you’re getting rid of the raised seal lands?

 

[Landy_Andy]

Thanks. Tell me more about why you’re getting rid of the raised seal lands?

For the 9” centre section, you use multi lip seals that press inside the end of the axle tubes. The original seal lands don’t line up with where they are in the housing.

 

[fl0w3n]

For the 9” centre section, you use multi lip seals that press inside the end of the axle tubes. The original seal lands don’t line up with where they are in the housing.

that’s what I was thinking but did not realize those had that large of a span of what it can seal. Good to know.

Also where are you seeing that price from? I’m seeing $90 on TG site

 

[Dan]

I just had the raised seal lands turned off & polished for the tube seals.

You took standard shafts and made them into custom shafts.

For the 9” centre section, you use multi lip seals that press inside the end of the axle tubes. The original seal lands don’t line up with where they are in the housing.

Why not fabricate a permanent place for the seals to live? Then use standard Dana 60 seals for $9 each.

 

[fl0w3n]

You took standard shafts and made them into custom shafts.

 

[Landy_Andy]

Sorta... but I can buy them on Amazon cheap & any shop can skim off the seal lands, then give them a quick polish. I could do at home if I bought a lathe.

There are no shops within 1000km that can respline shafts, by the time I ship stuff out & get it back it takes 2 weeks, costs shipping both ways & if it goes south of the boarder I get screwed by the Gov't with 12% import duty...

This way there quick to get replacements & only need a bit of work to use 😉

 

[Landy_Andy]

Why not fabricate a permanent place for the seals to live? Then use standard Dana 60 seals for $9 each.

Those have triple lip seals in them & allow for quite a bit of axle deflection. I try to get my housing as straight as possible but they'll never be as good as fully jig built ones... this just provides an extra level of security against leaks.

And the price on the picture is old... don't take any notice of that...

 

[arse_sidewards]

There are no shops within 1000km that can respline shafts, by the time I ship stuff out & get it back it takes 2 weeks, costs shipping both ways & if it goes south of the boarder I get screwed by the Gov't with 12% import duty...

Buy an indexing head for your bridgeport and get on it.

 

[Blase]

Disclaimer......I'm still planning and haven't proven this out yet!! So take this "TECH" as a theory to be proven in the coming months.

I'm building at set of steering axles (both passenger drop F&R steer) following what Dan did. Stock Ford 3.25" big web centers and Dana 50 tubes and outers. I plan to try and use both tubes by removing them from the Dana 50 center. Long I feel like will work....the short may be too short for what I have planned.

The difference is that I'm building mine to use Stock of the shelf Chevy Length (17.67" short & 35.07" long) axle shafts. I ran a Chevy 60 for years and have 3 brand new sets of inner axles (two 4340 sets of inners and one CTM 300M Set of inners all machined already for 50*) so I'm going to use them.

Using off the shelf shafts all with raised seal area's and splines set up for a dana 60 creates an issue since the 9" has splines inside that differ that aren't centered left to right. For me that means that one side will have the raised seal area on the shaft inside the 3rd member.

So I started hunting for 35 spline spools that are splined all the way through. For my build I wanted a number of things. 1)Cheap. doesn't get cheaper than a off the shelf spool. 2) light. doesn't get lighter than a spool. 3) K.I.S.S. I want a simple easy to drive and maintain buggy. Again Spool is as simple and as strong as it gets.

What I found so far is this from Quick Performance. Part number F9DR35X

Per the web site this spool moved the splines to the ends of the spool which for me allows me to place the seals in the ends of the tubes in the housing. My plan is to just have tubes extend into the housing so that I can put a standard Dana 60 seal in the end of the tube and have it fall on the raised seal area that my shafts all have. I work at a machine shop so machining the seal area's into the tubes isn't an issue for me. By Allowing the tubes to stick into the factory center farther than factory I'm hoping to put a brace on the end of the tube like a lot of the aftermarket housings do.

Based on the length of the seal area on my shafts I'm going to try and put two stock Dana 60 seals in the end of each tube because why not.

As of now what I think I know is that this spool would require a "conversion bearing" IF used in a 3.25" case (nodular case). I emailed Quick Performance a couple of times asking if they had a spool with the splines at the ends for 3.25" cases but got no response. I haven't decided yet what 3rd member I'm going to run. I have plenty of 3.06" cases that I can use. I'd prefer Nodular for Strength or Aluminum for weight but Budget may mean that I use what I have which works perfectly with this Spool.

Building this way does mean I don't control the WMS of my axle. Since the spool length, the inner axles shafts length and the outers are all set the WMS is going to be what its going to be. I'm ok with that!! I haven't done exact math but the 9" spool, I THINK is going to be narrower than a Dana 60 center. Then there may be a difference between the king pin outers and the 99-04. Stock Chevy front was 67" so I think I'll be between 63"-69" WMS front and rear which is fine with me. I'd even be ok if by some miracle it ends up at 72". WMS is not really a concern for me at this point. I will build around it.

Building around this spool also means that if I EVER want to switch to a locker of any kind I'll need new inner axle shafts. This is a concern as I've wheeled with ARB's for a long time. So spools will take some getting used to. I'm hoping Rear Steer and taking advantage of FWD or RWD options will help with that.

I'm still a couple of weeks away from ordering parts and starting on the housings to prove this theory out. I'm building these for my current build but i'm not in ANY rush! I'm building them for fun because I LOVED the Housing that Dan built! So while it's budget thats not my goal. I just wanted a cool project to work on.

If anyone knows for SURE of another 9" spool that moves the splines to the ends instead of the factory placement Please let me know! I may also look at using inner seals like Landy_Andy posted for a couple of reasons i'll explain later IF i do that.

 

[fl0w3n]

I plan to try and use both tubes by removing them from the Dana 50 center. Long I feel like will work....the short may be too short for what I have planned.

I saw staring at my D50 yesterday and thinking the same thing of that short side... it looks pretty short to be reused.

I may also look at using inner seals like Landy_Andy posted for a couple of reasons i'll explain later IF i do that.

I didn't know about the side gear offset in 9" centers, but as you were describing the issue I was beginning to see the advantage of those seals. It sounds like the tolerance they have for various OD shaft you might not even need to take off the existing raised seal surface, just shove the raised seal past and have it seal to the regular part of the shaft?


Share progress as you make it, especially on the WMS front. I have a D50 and a 9" center section sitting here inspired by all this but I have way less skill than you and Dan so I need guinea pigs to figure out the hard parts for me so I can shamelessly copy

Do either of you plan to add any "armor" to the stock center section or any trussing?

 

[Blase]

I saw staring at my D50 yesterday and thinking the same thing of that short side... it looks pretty short to be reused.

It only needs to be long enough to reached the seal area on the short side Chevy shaft. AND if I use the seal like Landy_Andy posted it can be even shorter.

Do either of you plan to add any "armor" to the stock center section or any trussing?

I haven't really got that far yet. I do know the front needs something if the stock center section is exposed and anything I do will be as minimal as possible.

 

[Dan]

Do either of you plan to add any "armor" to the stock center section or any trussing?

Yeah, definitely a front (backbone) truss and top truss for me, just waiting to get these mocked up under the project before I build them.

The only armor I have planned is a strip of AR400 that connects the shave plate to the front truss, possibly laminated to the bottom of the shave plate.

Good ideas on the other stuff you mentioned too.

 

[j.mcconnell]

Why run those unit bearings with that axle? Bolt pattern? Just curious.

Late to respond....High steer, 8x6.5, no hubs/lockouts, smaller brakes, decent reputation for surviving with 32spl stubs. It made sense for my use. Timken UBs and chromo stubs were reasonably priced, cheaper if you're getting redrilled/bored Ford UBs

 

[fl0w3n]

Anybody know the tube size on cad axles?

Picked up a complete CAD axle for $200 and turns out it’s 3.25 … perfect for this application with the stock 9” center. The short side is longer than the D50 and the long side I’m thinking can get the CAD cut off and sleeve the two long side pieces to still be an acceptable length.

Problem for me is I’m out of money, so a 35sp loaded 3rd with a selectable is likely out of range for a while. And a 35sp spool with the dodge “lockout” hubs sounds difficult on a non-buggy.

 

[Dan]

Picked up a complete CAD axle for $200 and turns out it’s 3.25 … perfect for this application with the stock 9” center. The short side is longer than the D50 and the long side I’m thinking can get the CAD cut off and sleeve the two long side pieces to still be an acceptable length.

Nice! This seems like a good donor and reasonably priced. What’s the wall thickness on the cad 60 tubes?

 

[Dan]

My shafts came in a few days ago and they look good.

I got a killer deal on these 4340 shafts with non matching ears. $358 to my door for the pair.

Perfect inner shafts for this project. If I wanted to run the factory super duty outers I would have a complete set of axles F/R at this point.

 

['84 Bronco II]

My shafts came in a few days ago and they look good.

I got a killer deal on these 4340 shafts with non matching ears. $358 to my door for the pair.

Perfect inner shafts for this project. If I wanted to run the factory super duty outers I would have a complete set of axles F/R at this point.

Nice, that's even cheaper than Dutchman (although without the machined yokes). I assume you had to call and talk to them? Their website isn't nearly as user friendly for placing orders as others so I never really considered them despite generally positive reviews on the old board.

 

[Dan]

Nice, that's even cheaper than Dutchman (although without the machine yokes). I assume you had to call and talk to them? Their website isn't nearly as user friendly for placing orders as others so I never really considered them despite generally positive reviews on the old board.

I ordered on their site and they called me the next day to clarify some details and about 4 weeks later I got a shipping notification for the first set of shafts (ordered another pair for something else). I agree about their site not being as user friendly as others but their products look good and it’s hard to beat that price.

 

[fl0w3n]

Nice! This seems like a good donor and reasonably priced. What’s the wall thickness on the cad 60 tubes?

I’m only at the parts collection stage. Just ordered my 3rd the other week and now I wait 9-10 weeks

Once I start cutting up the CAD I’ll report back.

 

[Sean]

I ordered on their site and they called me the next day to clarify some details and about 4 weeks later I got a shipping notification for the first set of shafts (ordered another pair for something else). I agree about their site not being as user friendly as others but their products look good and it’s hard to beat that price.

Looked at Foote's flanged rear axle shaft section....can't even tell how to place an order. Guess I'd need to call to get pricing...but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be lazy and just go through Dutchman.

 

[chaplinfj60]

holly chit look what i found

i am trying to get a couple of these in the next week

 

[chaplinfj60]

some silly questions. lets say i found a carrier can i just change it to a 35 spline spool and reuse the gears.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

If its 31 spline it should have 3.063” carrier bearings, which IIRC there is or used to be a thin wall 35 spline spool that fits. But basically all aftermarket 35 spline lockers and most spools are set up for an aftermarket-only 3.25” carrier bearing.

Stock 3rds also have notorious weaknesses like ripping the whole pinion support chunk out or cracking carrier bearing caps, so the 35 spline is a bit moot.

 

[chaplinfj60]

thats what they are talking about here?