Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[YotaAtieToo]

If I had to pick a say a 2000 4runner(or probably any other similar vehicle that era or newer) or an x3 to roll in at 70 mph, I'd take the 4runner all day.

Usually the vehicles a pillars will crush a bit, but the B pillars are in tact. The sxs's just seem to fold up all around.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

So the $33,000+ SxS has shit for roll over protection?!!

Like a typical truck cab; can a SxS tub be fitted to use roll cage floor plates?

This was a brand new Honda SxS with 60mi on it that I wanted to turn into a race car. I cut the cage and alot of the top half of the chassis off and rebuilt it with much stronger tubing and lots more of it so I could race it without dying. The stock cages are death traps and the rest of the chassis is 70's metal swing set material that's as thin as paper.

 

[Treefrog]

Have you ever seen a F1 or LMP car hit an immovable object at 180 mph? The tubs are never damaged. You don't even see control arms ripped off with chunks of the tub connected to them. The control arms break.

CF with a sandwiched core would be fine. Any impact from the outside puts the inside layers in tension, which is where CF is the strongest. You'd want some form of protection (skid) on the sides to protect from gouging (UHMW?), just like the bottom. You could even have a couple layers of Kevlar on the outside of the layup.

It's not the big crash that's the issue. Its the 1000 small ones and sharp edges running rock trails that are the issues. I would be hesitant even with a core, since composites do not like point impacts.

Using composites for stuff like shock tower braces, radiator mounts, fuel tank/battery tie downs, ect. is much less of a risk.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Totally agree!😂😀😎


Now for a counter point;
Calling arse_sidewards

I was actually thinking "yeah it wasn't that bad the few times I did it but that was on the street with 31" tires"

 

[arse_sidewards]

If I had to pick a say a 2000 4runner(or probably any other similar vehicle that era or newer) or an x3 to roll in at 70 mph, I'd take the 4runner all day.

Usually the vehicles a pillars will crush a bit, but the B pillars are in tact. The sxs's just seem to fold up all around.

Dumbass fanboy says what?

If you're gonna barrel roll an early 2000s car you want a Volvo sedan or a Subaru sedan in that order. End of story.

 

[vetteboy79]

It had an ARB up front. Tried it both ways and I think it was better locked

My TTB buggy seems to behave just fine in front only, open or locked. I'm honestly surprised how much I don't notice any weird TTB stuff, it just works. I did put a shitload of time into the beams, geometry, and steering though. Roughly 17" of what I'd consider 'clean' travel with negligible change in toe.

I think the bigger drawback to a TTB rear would be the radius arms and the anti-squat (or lack of) from that. I looked real hard at doing a multi-link instead of radius arms on the front of mine and the packaging just wasn't gonna work...and I never really came to a conclusion if it would work that much better anyway.

 

[Bebop]

Idk who talked about Subaru engines.
Don’t ask me why I have this giant and expensive pile of Outfront Motorsport shit, but it is:

31” wide
23" tall from exhaust to intake
17" from the bellhousing mount area to the front of the crank pulley
Add 10" to the length if you put the turbo in front, like it was in the car.

I think it’s definitely not a good idea to put the engine under the driver. Way too tall.

 

[mobil1syn]

It's not TTB though, the diff is just mounted to what would be a radius rod as I understand it?

its the inbred child of a lonely boones farm camp fire night in the woods of ifs and ttb.

 

[bdkw1]

Wasn't somebody saying there weren't billet blocks for inline motors?

Duratec looking better and better.

 

[Bebop]

Billet Honda

Billet Honda K24-Series Engine Block – DRAG CARTEL IND.

Billet Honda K24-Series Engine Block by Bullet Race Engineering, 4 bolt mains, HP rating: 1700, Ductile Iron performance sleeves fitted, and 6061-T6 aluminum.

dragcartel.com

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Dry or wet blocks?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Old retardo is quick with the Toyota bat signal



Point was modern ish vehicles are much safer than sxs's. I'm not sure how they get away with those cheesy cages.

 

[elbekko]

Idk who talked about Subaru engines.
Don’t ask me why I have this giant and expensive pile of Outfront Motorsport shit, but it is:

31” wide
23" tall from exhaust to intake
17" from the bellhousing mount area to the front of the crank pulley
Add 10" to the length if you put the turbo in front, like it was in the car.

I think it’s definitely not a good idea to put the engine under the driver. Way too tall.

That was me. It was just a thought I threw out, no experience with them.

I also wonder what the actual weight and complexity penalty would be for a series hybrid like the Audi Dakar (shortly touched on a few pages back, but fairly instantly dismissed).

Cons:

• Unknown technology in the off-road world
• Added complexity (? maybe, maybe not)

Pros:

• Can run a tiny engine at top efficiency
• No need for a gearbox/transfer case/driveshafts
• Could get inventive with motor placement: -- ZF eBeam or similar (would probably need portals to offset the gigantic center)

-- For IFS/IRS either
--- Hub motors (heavy, but might offset the lack of need for portals)
--- A single diff-sized motor with regular axle shafts
--- Or (something I've had in mind for a while) a smaller motor for each wheel, mounted wide and pointed at each other, axle shafts crossing each other. Would allow for much better CV angles.

I think it could definitely provide some interesting new concepts.

 

[elbekko]

Ugh, nested lists on mobile are hopeless apparently. Whatever, I'm sure you can figure it out, or disregard my foreign ramblings

 

[Sean]

Old retardo is quick with the Toyota bat signal



Point was modern ish vehicles are much safer than sxs's. I'm not sure how they get away with those cheesy cages.

What's even scarier to me is how many are given plates to drive on public roadways here in AZ knowing first hand how poorly designed the cages/chassis are. I love our lax MVD rules and dont' want more government, but IMO, running a factory caged 4 seater with your kids in it around our congested roads is really dangerous. I'd wager those owners without any mechanical engineering background or just plain common sense (that's all too uncommon today) probably have no idea how weak those things are. Again though....not calling for government intrusion, but instead personal responsibility on the part of the owners when they make foolish decisions.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

What's even scarier to me is how many are given plates to drive on public roadways here in AZ knowing first hand how poorly designed the cages/chassis are. I love our lax MVD rules and dont' want more government, but IMO, running a factory caged 4 seater with your kids in it around our congested roads is really dangerous. I'd wager those owners without any mechanical engineering background or just plain common sense (that's all too uncommon today) probably have no idea how weak those things are. Again though....not calling for government intrusion, but instead personal responsibility on the part of the owners when they make foolish decisions.

Motorcycles.....

 

[Sean]

Motorcycles.....

Fair point. And it's the reason I dont' own a crotch rocket here. Simply too dangerous. Again though...personal choice. Everything has risk....just gotta determine what's acceptable to you and for your family.

 

[Treefrog]

Motorcycles.....

Motorcycles don't pretend to be safe

 

[bdkw1]

Motorcycles don't pretend to be safe

Lane splitting with a vengeance, 1 thing Komifornia got right.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Lane splitting with a vengeance, 1 thing Komifornia got right.

Until a Komifornian decides to box you in just before you can pass:

 

[bdkw1]

Until a Komifornian decides to box you in just before you can pass:

That's when you take off a mirror or leave them a size 12 boot imprint in the door.

Had a guy in a prius do that to me, I knocked off his mirror so hard it flew forward, bounced off the box truck in front of him. He then ran his own mirror over. It was quite funny.

 

[arse_sidewards]

That's when you take off a mirror or leave them a size 12 boot imprint in the door.

Had a guy in a prius do that to me, I knocked off his mirror so hard it flew forward, bounced off the box truck in front of him. He then ran his own mirror over. It was quite funny.

That only works when you're dealing with an idiot who doesn't realize the fundamental inequality between two wheels and four. Great way to get crippled or dead otherwise.

 

[redneckK20s]

Motorcycles.....

Motorcycles don't give the illusion of safety to idiots. A roll cage on a SxS does.

 

[bdkw1]

That only works when you're dealing with an idiot who doesn't realize the fundamental inequality between two wheels and four. Great way to get crippled or dead otherwise.

If you can't get away from a car in traffic on a bike, you shouldn't be riding a bike.

 

[Will Scarlet]

If you can't get away from a car in traffic on a bike, you shouldn't be riding a bike.

You can't always get away from a car when you're lane splitting in between them.

 

[arse_sidewards]

If you can't get away from a car in traffic on a bike, you shouldn't be riding a bike.

That doesn't mean much if you're trying to get close enough to fuck with someone. All they gotta do it turn their wheel toward the mirror or door you're fucking with. Sure maybe if you get the jump on them you might get away but if you already have beef with someone you’re not getting the jump on them.

 

[posford]

Bitch, i am!

I have driven plenty of TTB's. They are the pinicle of simple robust 4X suspension. Without swingset steering, your not going to have a good time.

I had a 6" Skywanker lift in my 94 Ranger, those coils were soft as fuck, settle to ~4" of lift. With a drop pitman and Y link the steering was ridiculous with travel. I learned how to adapt to it and could wail the shit out of it on some old washboard abandoned dirt roads, but the entire time you're sawing back and forth on the steering wheel like a pirate lost at sea Could have definitely benefitted from swing set steering

 

[arse_sidewards]

I had a 6" Skywanker lift in my 94 Ranger, those coils were soft as fuck, settle to ~4" of lift. With a drop pitman and Y link the steering was ridiculous with travel. I learned how to adapt to it and could wail the shit out of it on some old washboard abandoned dirt roads, but the entire time you're sawing back and forth on the steering wheel like a pirate lost at sea Could have definitely benefitted from swing set steering

You still got those coils around?

 

[posford]

You still got those coils around?

No they're still in the truck, somewhere in Maine according to FBMP

 

[Sean]

The problem I have with lane splitting is that when I've witnessed it, the vast majority of the time it's being done in violation of at least a couple of these guidelines:

For example, the CHP guidelines regarding lane splitting recommends the following best practices for motorcyclists:

• Take into consideration the total environment before lane splitting;
• Avoid lane splitting between trucks, buses, motor homes, etc.;
• Riding on the shoulder is against the law and will not be considered lane splitting;
• Do not travel more than ten mph faster than the surrounding traffic when passing between vehicles;
• Do not engage in lane splitting when the traffic is moving faster than 30mph;
• When at all possible, split between the two leftmost lanes rather than other lanes; and
• Always assume that other motor vehicles cannot see you, and give them as much room as possible.
Then there's this as well:

However, there are instances where liability for a lane splitting accident is clear-cut, including under the following circumstances:

• When a driver hits a motorcyclist who was splitting lanes safely. In this case, the driver is clearly liable; and
• When a motorcyclist is speeding, recklessly weaving in and out of traffic, or otherwise splitting lanes unsafely. In this case, the motorcyclist is clearly liable.

Which, IMO is fair. But I see far more of the 2nd example than I ever have the first.