Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[2big bronco]

I completely agree on solid axles, noticed that way back in the day with Sami axles. Which, not a great comparison when you're diffs are tiny

I thought we were talking a full independent set up though?

It seeme like if your mounting diffs on the A arm you can get higher clearance under the belly/ bulkhead or drop your mid shaft significantly to help with cv angles.

You could also get away with way longer A arms

 

[tsomctl]

They wind up a little tall for that with manifolds. A flat engine does substantially reduce length though. And they tend to need less cooling for a given power level.

Have low profile intake manifolds, and two throttle bodies and two air filters, one on each side.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

They are, but we’re way off in the weeds of fantasy land.

Well yes, I thought that was obvious

With an SCS you can have double offset diffs easy so it makes sense to explore potential theories. bdkw1 has double offset diffs on TTB f/r in a samurai. I’m looking forward to seeing how well that works out.

Yes, but my point was offset drivetrain and offset diffs seems difficult. If you're offsetting the drivetrain, why not go center diffs?

It seeme like if your mounting diffs on the A arm you can get higher clearance under the belly/ bulkhead or drop your mid shaft significantly to help with cv angles.

You could also get away with way longer A arms

Thats a good point, although you obviously loose clearance on the arm with the diff there. Basically center mounted a arms would be an advantage for sure

 

[Tech Tim]

What's the advantage of offset diffs?

A disadvantage is having to scale the axle shafts so they can equally handle the torque output OR maybe better put is An advantage of a centered diff (or somewhat centered) is equal twist of the axle shafts.

I thought we were talking a full independent set up though?

IFS front live axle rear.

bdkw1 has double offset diffs on TTB f/r in a samurai. I’m looking forward to seeing how well that works out.

bdkw1 is there a build thread on this?

 

[bdkw1]

A disadvantage is having to scale the axle shafts so they can equally handle the torque output OR maybe better put is An advantage of a centered diff (or somewhat centered) is equal twist of the axle shafts.




IFS front live axle rear.



bdkw1 is there a build thread on this?

Independent both ends.

Don't get your hopes up, I've got project ADD.

Samurai!

Ok, since the website I was doing a build thread on is down and doesn't look like it's coming back this time I will continue the build here. As I sits today. Specs 1.9 ALH TDI AX15 LT230 8.8 TTB's both ends. King bypass airshocks KM3 35X10.5x15 UTV tires on lightened Alcoa rims. I may...

irate4x4.com

 

[Isdtbower]

Since this thread is searching again. Here is an old option. Don't throw away all the Camber curve progress with a TTB. Know that Jeep and Ford had their solutions to where this thinking is going. Best UFO IRS is with the dog bone shaft in the center of the rear. NOT TTB. Torque steer is mainly from unequal length half shafts. Several were sitting out there with the Ford systems to put in 4400 rigs...until the tires got too big.

Portals have kicked this tech out the door as also giving more ground clearance. UFO's have drivers that can take the beating.

Shock technology is AGAIN overtaking drivetrain tech. Currently IFS/SA and IFS/IRS. ALL straight axle guys MIGHT be going that way but have not seen it yet. Big $ almost as much as portals. Which first?

The VEMCO V-Drive System - Blue Oval Trucks

(Ford Econoline with VEMCO V-Drive) Developed by Dana in the 1970’s, the V-Drive system was originally designed to add 4-wheel drive to Chevy vans, Blazers, and station wagons and to keep the drive height low. The idea didn’t catch on … Continued

www.blueovaltrucks.com

 

[CDA 455 II]

nOOB question:
Do the current golf carts have reliable/for-real roll cages?

Example: Can Am Maverick X3 X RC TURBO RR 72

Are does one have to invest in an aftermarket cage?

 

[wvracer821]

Theres a reason a stock cage wont pass tech

 

[JR4X]

nOOB question:
Do the current golf carts have reliable/for-real roll cages?

Example: Can Am Maverick X3 X RC TURBO RR 72

Are does one have to invest in an aftermarket cage?

Don’t trust those cages. They’re almost worse than nothing, especially on a Canam

 

[Bebop]

Are does one have to invest in an aftermarket cage?

All of them, yeah

 

[CDA 455 II]

Theres a reason a stock cage wont pass tech

Ah; I've heard that!

Don’t trust those cages. They’re almost worse than nothing, especially on a Canam

Good to know.

All of them, yeah

I think I saw one company making an aftermarket cage; is that correct, companies are making aftermarket cages?

 

[bdkw1]

Ah; I've heard that!

Good to know.


I think I saw one company making an aftermarket cage; is that correct, companies are making aftermarket cages?

There are several options for aftermarket cages. Downside is, most of them use stock mounting points. The lower cage structure is pretty lacking also.

 

[gt1guy]

Want to save weight?

Carbon fiber tub and driver compartment. F&R suspensions attach to the tub as units. Roll over protection (cage) attaches to the top of the tub.

A full tube chassis run what ? 600-800Lbs? You could probably half that with a CF tub.

 

[Treefrog]

Torque steer should be counter able with adjusting the axle shaft spring rates.

 

[Treefrog]

Want to save weight?

Carbon fiber tub and driver compartment. F&R suspensions attach to the tub as units. Roll over protection (cage) attaches to the top of the tub.

A full tube chassis run what ? 600-800Lbs? You could probably half that with a CF tub.

It may be a better compromise to use carbon fiber or structural fiberglass for the internal braces and mount. Less worry about damage from impacts.

 

[mjlogan88]

Are you guys serious about TTB rear?

Go drive a TTB truck in front wheel drive and tell me you want that going on in the rear

 

[gt1guy]

It may be a better compromise to use carbon fiber or structural fiberglass for the internal braces and mount. Less worry about damage from impacts.

Have you ever seen a F1 or LMP car hit an immovable object at 180 mph? The tubs are never damaged. You don't even see control arms ripped off with chunks of the tub connected to them. The control arms break.

CF with a sandwiched core would be fine. Any impact from the outside puts the inside layers in tension, which is where CF is the strongest. You'd want some form of protection (skid) on the sides to protect from gouging (UHMW?), just like the bottom. You could even have a couple layers of Kevlar on the outside of the layup.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Are you guys serious about TTB rear?

Go drive a TTB truck in front wheel drive and tell me you want that going on in the rear

Have you driven a TTB with proper geometry or just with Ford's craptastic Y-link setup?

 

[Isdtbower]

Have you driven a TTB with proper geometry or just with Ford's craptastic Y-link setup?

There is always a Beetle or a Mutt with 20" travel to try at speed...

 

['84 Bronco II]

There is always a Beetle or a Mutt with 20" travel to try at speed...

Just need longer beams and the balls to stay in the throttle around corners

 

[CDA 455 II]

Are you guys serious about TTB rear?

Go drive a TTB truck in front wheel drive and tell me you want that going on in the rear

Totally agree!😂😀😎


Now for a counter point;
Calling arse_sidewards

 

[CDA 455 II]

There are several options for aftermarket cages. Downside is, most of them use stock mounting points. The lower cage structure is pretty lacking also.

So the $33,000+ SxS has shit for roll over protection?!!

Like a typical truck cab; can a SxS tub be fitted to use roll cage floor plates?

 

[bdkw1]

So the $33,000+ SxS has shit for roll over protection?!!

Like a typical truck cab; can a SxS tub be fitted to use roll cage floor plates?

Floor plates no. Canned hams greatly benefit from a double A pillar due to the angle of the stock A pillar.

 

[bdkw1]

Are you guys serious about TTB rear?

Go drive a TTB truck in front wheel drive and tell me you want that going on in the rear

Bitch, i am!

I have driven plenty of TTB's. They are the pinicle of simple robust 4X suspension. Without swingset steering, your not going to have a good time.

 

[bdkw1]

Want to save weight?

Carbon fiber tub and driver compartment. F&R suspensions attach to the tub as units. Roll over protection (cage) attaches to the top of the tub.

A full tube chassis run what ? 600-800Lbs? You could probably half that with a CF tub.

CF tub would not pass any current safety specs in off road. The rules have not caught up with technology. Even Dakar cars aren't full carbon tubs. They all still use tubular cages. Now, using epoxy to glue carbon panels to the cage to up stiffness would be great.

 

[mjlogan88]

Bitch, i am!

I have driven plenty of TTB's. They are the pinicle of simple robust 4X suspension. Without swingset steering, your not going to have a good time.

I’ve got 1000s of miles in the desert behind the wheel of a TTB truck with stock steering and it was a great time

I just remember driving it once without the rear driveshaft and it was hilarious

 

[bdkw1]

I just remember driving it once without the rear driveshaft and it was hilarious

Spool, open or locker? I found a tru-trac to be best up front.

 

[mjlogan88]

Spool, open or locker? I found a tru-trac to be best up front.

It had an ARB up front. Tried it both ways and I think it was better locked

 

[JR4X]

So the $33,000+ SxS has shit for roll over protection?!!

Like a typical truck cab; can a SxS tub be fitted to use roll cage floor plates?

Plastic dune buggy. They are a surprisingly poorly built pile of shit for that amount of money. I have a Polaris rzr. I have friends and family with canam’s. The chassis is not great on any of them. The cages are straight up unacceptable

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

CF tub would not pass any current safety specs in off road. The rules have not caught up with technology. Even Dakar cars aren't full carbon tubs. They all still use tubular cages. Now, using epoxy to glue carbon panels to the cage to up stiffness would be great.