Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[gt1guy]

You got an example of that?

I've seen some shit done with roller chain and a sprocket spacer but it certainly wasn't a "yeah let me take this to the desert for a few hundred miles of racing" type setup.

Might work running the Weismann automatic, but it pretty much locks you in to a manual trans.

Personally, I think I'd go this route to avoid all the suction hoses. Bolts directly to the pan. Picture is the LS kit. Nice flat pan with the pickups built in.

Edit: They also make them where they bolt directly to the cam cover and run off the cam.

 

[Bebop]

Might work running the Weismann automatic, but it pretty much locks you in to a manual trans.

Personally, I think I'd go this route to avoid all the suction hoses. Bolts directly to the pan. Picture is the LS kit. Nice flat pan with the pickups built in.

Problem is the belt drive and debris. Not the hoses.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Might work running the Weismann automatic, but it pretty much locks you in to a manual trans.

Personally, I think I'd go this route to avoid all the suction hoses. Bolts directly to the pan. Picture is the LS kit. Nice flat pan with the pickups built in.

That last one still has the belt problem.

We can build cars from scratch but we can't make an automatic trans bell housing than can mount a dry sump pump?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Problem is the belt drive and debris. Not the hoses.

It's way less exposed back there than it is riding down low next to the crank pulley.

 

[JR4X]

Might work running the Weismann automatic, but it pretty much locks you in to a manual trans.

Personally, I think I'd go this route to avoid all the suction hoses. Bolts directly to the pan. Picture is the LS kit. Nice flat pan with the pickups built in.

Same problem not solved. Cog belt is reliable drag car oil pump drive. It is a sketchy way to run 6000 rpm for 6 hours in a car getting dunked in water, mud and crushed granite. Even with a belt guard I’ve seen them flung off.

 

[Bebop]

Lightweight, efficient, powerful: the new Audi turbo engine for the DTM

The beginning of a new era in the DTM: Starting in the 2019 season, the Class 1 race cars of the popular touring car racing series will use modern and highly efficient turbo engines. The two-liter four-cylinder power-plant of the Audi RS 5 DTM delivers more than 610 horsepower. By means of the...

www.audi-mediacenter.com

187 lbs
610 hp
479 lbs/ft
Runs on pump 93.
Built for 3500+mi of punishing racetrack use.

The technology is there.

Just bringing this back up.

Pair it with : SCL 924 IN-LINE

And a TCase with a front sprag, and you just shaved half of the weight compared to a LS / TH400 combo

 

[mobil1syn]

i wonder if you could use a chain/belt and to run a jackshaft in the pan of the eco boost stuff for a dry stump

 

[RustyC]

This for a crawler or are you building an U4 car?

I wish. There is little racing on the east coast outside of bouncers. Make Dirt Riot great again.
Street / Trail Jeep. Just got caught up in the derail.

Now continue on with cooler U4 tech.

 

[Provience]

i wonder if you could use a chain/belt and to run a jackshaft in the pan of the eco boost stuff for a dry stump

The idea if having an external pump that low just made my skin crawl I'm sure it could be protected plenty well enough though

 

[Tech Tim]

We can build cars from scratch but we can't make an automatic trans bell housing than can mount a dry sump pump?

We can, there just hasn't been someone who has done it yet.

 

[Tech Tim]

Back to KOH engines :

Lightweight, efficient, powerful: the new Audi turbo engine for the DTM

The beginning of a new era in the DTM: Starting in the 2019 season, the Class 1 race cars of the popular touring car racing series will use modern and highly efficient turbo engines. The two-liter four-cylinder power-plant of the Audi RS 5 DTM delivers more than 610 horsepower. By means of the...

www.audi-mediacenter.com

187 lbs
610 hp
479 lbs/ft
Runs on pump 93.
Built for 3500+mi of punishing racetrack use.

The technology is there.

There is some cool stuff there.

From your link: Lightweight, efficient, powerful: the new Audi turbo engine for the DTM

Due to a so-called “push-to-pass” system, the driver can use a short-term engine power boost by pushing a button, for instance in an overtaking maneuver. Via a bypass of the fuel flow restrictor (FFR), an additional 5 kg of fuel per hour is provided, which results in a boost of about 30 horsepower.

 

[Bebop]

Cam driven dry sump.
Timing chain will become the weak link but... dunno 'till you try.

 

[gt1guy]

Same problem not solved. Cog belt is reliable drag car oil pump drive. It is a sketchy way to run 6000 rpm for 6 hours in a car getting dunked in water, mud and crushed granite. Even with a belt guard I’ve seen them flung off.

I'll give you the mud and crushed granite. Maybe an improvement in belt material could help. Water isn't an issue I don't think. Cog belts are definitely not just for drag cars. They've been working fine in cars turning 10k rpm for 24 hrs straight for years. So it's certainly not a hrs issue.

Are they also having problems with V belts and serpentine belts? Or is there something about the cog?

 

[RustyC]

We have electrically boosted brakes, water pumps, and steering. Why not an oil pump too?
Damn near in the EV class already.

 

[JR4X]

I wish. There is little racing on the east coast outside of bouncers. Make Dirt Riot great again.
Street / Trail Jeep. Just got caught up in the derail.

Now continue on with cooler U4 tech.

No worries. I was just going to differentiate. For trail rig the OE ECM is great. I wouldn’t run one in a race car, they are problematic #limpmode. Nobody doing any good in U4 is running the GM engine management.

 

[Bebop]

There is some cool stuff there.

From your link: Lightweight, efficient, powerful: the new Audi turbo engine for the DTM

Due to a so-called “push-to-pass” system, the driver can use a short-term engine power boost by pushing a button, for instance in an overtaking maneuver. Via a bypass of the fuel flow restrictor (FFR), an additional 5 kg of fuel per hour is provided, which results in a boost of about 30 horsepower.

yeah it's 30hp ON TOP of the 610.

But nobody in offroad racing can deal with such an engine.
The best example I can give you is when Audi put a TDI V12 in a TT. They needed a team of engineers to make the engine run.
As a motorsport, we are not there yet.

 

[mobil1syn]

The idea if having an external pump that low just made my skin crawl I'm sure it could be protected plenty well enough though

if you hide it in the oil pan its not different than a wet sump

 

[Bebop]

if you hide it in the oil pan its not different than a wet sump

not at all.

Pick up isn't in the pan and pump is not the same either.

 

[mobil1syn]

dumb question because i dont know the answer, do the dry sump pumps have to be within a certain elevation of the pan?

 

[Bebop]

dumb question because i dont know the answer, do the dry sump pumps have to be within a certain elevation of the pan?

No

 

[Weasel]

Few pages back but Pegasus has diy seat foam kits.

 

[JR4X]

I'll give you the mud and crushed granite. Maybe an improvement in belt material could help. Water isn't an issue I don't think. Cog belts are definitely not just for drag cars. They've been working fine in cars turning 10k rpm for 24 hrs straight for years. So it's certainly not a hrs issue.

Are they also having problems with V belts and serpentine belts? Or is there something about the cog?

A droplet of water? No. A deluge of water. Yes. And yes. Especially in the rear engine cars we see a lot of serp belt issues too.

 

[cdemart2]

No worries. I was just going to differentiate. For trail rig the OE ECM is great. I wouldn’t run one in a race car, they are problematic #limpmode. Nobody doing any good in U4 is running the GM engine management.

least favorite part of my car is the factory limp mode module and hptuners. I wish the aftermarket would catch up with supporting modern trans control. Holley did it but with the worst management platform they sell. haltech has impressed me with their rebel and promised me they're working on it but I'm not holding my breath

 

[YJ4Rox]

Same problem not solved. Cog belt is reliable drag car oil pump drive. It is a sketchy way to run 6000 rpm for 6 hours in a car getting dunked in water, mud and crushed granite. Even with a belt guard I’ve seen them flung off.

i might have missed it but this is a super common set up dirt super late models. 8500-9000k rpm is common but never hours at a time.
They do chuck belts from time to time. SImilar set up in wet sump modified but bell mounted PS/fuel pump combo.

 

[Bebop]

least favorite part of my car is the factory limp mode module and hptuners. I wish the aftermarket would catch up with supporting modern trans control. Holley did it but with the worst management platform they sell. haltech has impressed me with their rebel and promised me they're working on it but I'm not holding my breath

Motec has been doing it for years
Life racing, cosworth, Magneti Marelli etc

 

[cdemart2]

Few pages back but Pegasus has diy seat foam kits.

UPR sells memory foam inserts as well. sparco has a part number but it's not available in the US.

 

[mjlogan88]

i wonder if you could use a chain/belt and to run a jackshaft in the pan of the eco boost stuff for a dry stump

Run it off the balance shaft gear. Balance shaft is deleted in a lot of performance applications anyway. If you were real creative you could adapt the pump to the stock balance shaft gear and housing

 

[Bebop]

UPR sells memory foam inserts as well. sparco has a part number but it's not available in the US.

I have plenty of solutions for that.
Link ?

 

[Bebop]

i wonder if you could use a chain/belt and to run a jackshaft in the pan of the eco boost stuff for a dry stump

It's already like that on some engines
The 1.0 ecoboost has a wet cog belt INSIDE the pan that drives the oil pump.

 

[YJ4Rox]

Few pages back but Pegasus has diy seat foam kits.

Butler Built sells DIY seat foam as well.

Seat Insert Kits

Seat Insert Kits

www.butlerbuilt.net