Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[Tech Tim]

Imagine two of these end to end for an inline 6 that weighs sub-200lbs. and makes 800hp and 600 ft-lbs torque

Press Release from 2014:

Nissan Unveils Revolutionary Engine to Complement Electric ZEOD RC Powerplant

-1.5-liter three-cylinder turbo produces 400 horsepower from a 40kg engine
-More power per kilo than a Formula 1 engine
-New technical partnership with Total lubricants revealed

LONDON – Nissan will not only break new ground with the unique electric power plant aboard the Nissan ZEOD RC at Le Mans this year, but the accompanying internal combustion engine is set to revolutionize standards of performance and efficiency.

The Nissan ZEOD RC will become the first entry at Le Mans to complete a lap of the Circuit de la Sarthe under nothing but electric power in June. A single lap of each stint (a fuel "stint" lasts approximately one hour) will be electric powered. Then, the new Nissan DIG-T R 1.5-liter three-cylinder turbo engine will take over.

The incredibly small engine weighs only 40 kilograms (88 pounds) but produces an astonishing 400 horsepower. The base engine is only 500 mm tall x 400 mm long x 200 mm wide (19.68" x 15.74" x 7.78"). While the engine is technically too heavy to take as carry-on luggage on a plane, it would easily fit inside the luggage guides seen at major airports around the world.

Revving to 7,500 rpm, the Nissan DIG-T R produces 380 Nm of torque (279 ft-lbs). At a ratio of 10 horsepower per kilogram, the new engine actually has a better power-to-weight ratio than the new engines to be used in the FIA Formula 1 World Championship this year.

Blah, blah, blah....

What happened to the Nissan DIG-T R 1.5L Engine:

What happened to Nissan’s 294kW 1.5?

Astonishing 1.5-litre turbopetrol hybrid was showcased in the 2014 ZEOD RC Le Mans racer - but where is it now?

www.iol.co.za

 

[JR4X]

Run it off the balance shaft gear. Balance shaft is deleted in a lot of performance applications anyway. If you were real creative you could adapt the pump to the stock balance shaft gear and housing

That’s a 2.3 ecoboost right? Looks like mine anyway

 

[Penetrode Offroad]

Looks like mine anyway

You would know what the insides look like.... from the outside.

 

[mobil1syn]

are the TT guys dropping dry sump belts?

 

[Bebop]

are the TT guys dropping dry sump belts?

Yes, very much soi

 

[Tech Tim]

It's already like that on some engines
The 1.0 ecoboost has a wet cog belt INSIDE the pan that drives the oil pump.

I believe all the current EcoBoost V-6s all have that wet belt.

Cued to start at the wet belt:



As does the 5.0 Coyote:

 

[Tech Tim]

Run it off the balance shaft gear. Balance shaft is deleted in a lot of performance applications anyway. If you were real creative you could adapt the pump to the stock balance shaft gear and housing

 

[JR4X]

You would know what the insides look like.... from the outside.

I do.

 

[JR4X]

I believe all the current EcoBoost V-6s all have that wet belt.

Cued to start at the wet belt:

Weird. My 2.3’s oil pumps are chain driven.

 

[cdemart2]

Motec has been doing it for years
Life racing, cosworth, Magneti Marelli etc

gm 6 sp? motec is way above my pay grade so I honestly don't pay attention to them.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

That is a pretty cool rig and he beats the hell out of it in the videos I've seen.

BUT does he beat the hell out of it for 6 hours straight?

No, I'm not saying his set up is koh ready by any means. Just an example of a turbo 4cyl that does get beat.

I'd bet you could build a 300-400hp k24 to hold up to koh fairly easy, but that's just speculating.

I mean look at those can ams, 1L 3 cyl making a rumored 500hp.


Speaking of can am, It seems like if you wanted to really save wieght, sxs engine and trans is probably the way to go.

 

[gt1guy]

A droplet of water? No. A deluge of water. Yes. And yes. Especially in the rear engine cars we see a lot of serp belt issues too.

If you guys would stop driving through the pucker bushes on the sides of the course.......

Sure sounds like some belt technology needs to take place. Or maybe a sealed fully enclosed front cover for the engine. Sprockets and o-ringed chain. Who knows. It's a fixable issue for sure. Just going to take dumb ideas being fine tuned into workable solutions.

 

[Bebop]

gm 6 sp? motec is way above my pay grade so I honestly don't pay attention to them.

Motec ECUs do everything if you know how to talk to them.

 

[mobil1syn]

Weird. My 2.3’s oil pumps are chain driven.

so you convert the wet pump into a dry pump with the chain. everything protected in the pan and life is good

 

[cdemart2]

Motec ECUs do everything if you know how to talk to them.

I'm genuinely interested how to make that work with a 6L and if it's possible with other aftermarket ecu's in the hobbyist price range.

 

[Beat95yj]

This isn’t really chassis related but is. Starlink can it be useful enough and accurate enough that someone could remotely co-dawg the race? Like them watching in real time they’re in drivers ear giving directions?

I could see technology removing the co-dawg and then the push going back to lighter single seaters real quick. Only disadvantage is winching and spotter.

Possibly. Our Baja 1k team had starlink on the race car and chase vehicles. Our ability to communicate was much improved over our satellite walkie talkies and Sat phones.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Might work running the Weismann automatic, but it pretty much locks you in to a manual trans.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

I assume the OD of the clutch housing (multi plate button clutch I assume) is machines for the toothed belt.

Edit: They also make them where they bolt directly to the cam cover and run off the cam.

Yeah I've seen plenty of that.

You know way less about go fast stuff than you think you do.......

You didn't understand the question. Everyone knows what a dry sump pump looks like. I was asking about the flywheel drive system.

We can build cars from scratch but we can't make an automatic trans bell housing than can mount a dry sump pump?

I think if you did you'd run right into heat issues.

IDK how hot a TC is under racing conditions but probably a lot hotter than a clutch on average. Maybe the clutch is hotter in the rocks.

 

[ridered3]

A droplet of water? No. A deluge of water. Yes. And yes. Especially in the rear engine cars we see a lot of serp belt issues too.

Speaking of belt related issues in rear engine cars, any insight into the belt issues Levi keeps having with the LT5 and Supercharger in the new chassis?

I know they did some serious work to redo things around the belt drive system in that one, but recall hearing belt issues for them as well.

 

[arse_sidewards]

A droplet of water? No. A deluge of water. Yes. And yes. Especially in the rear engine cars we see a lot of serp belt issues too.

Throw a timing belt cover on it.

Works for the ~2.5 dunks per year my Subarus get

 

[gt1guy]

Cam driven dry sump.
Timing chain will become the weak link but... dunno 'till you try.

Still has a belt

If you had something like that, but running a gear drive for the cam, you could run everything off it. The bracket holding that drysump pump would have to also be a timing cover, but inside it on the pump side, you could have gears driving everything any direction you wanted at any speed you wanted.
Engine belts would be gone.

 

[Bebop]

Still has a belt

If you had something like that, but running a gear drive for the cam, you could run everything off it. The bracket holding that drysump pump would have to also be a timing cover, but inside it on the pump side, you could have gears driving everything any direction you wanted at any speed you wanted.
Engine belts would be gone.

You mean, like this ?

 

[arse_sidewards]

Still has a belt

If you had something like that, but running a gear drive for the cam, you could run everything off it. The bracket holding that drysump pump would have to also be a timing cover, but inside it on the pump side, you could have gears driving everything any direction you wanted at any speed you wanted.
Engine belts would be gone.

Volvo has some weird gear driven accessory drive shit for they run the alternators on some of their cars with. They use a toothed belt like a straight coupler.

 

[Provience]

if you hide it in the oil pan its not different than a wet sump

Size of the pump and lines would make that interesting to fit below the windage tray, or what would be a windage tray converted to accumulation tray for scavenge pickups.

I'm sure it's plenty doable, but for a rock rig with high chance of driveshaft or suspension failure, it'd be interesting choice. Not sure it would be worthwhile instead of mounting pumps up high or to the side.

Using a Crank mount on pump, Toyota style for example because that what I'm familiar with, you could move pickup and route hoses and such but it would be an interesting logistical solution for getting the head suction lines

 

[Chkn]

LS 4cyl? I doubt they’ll ever make the block but it could be cool. But a cast iron block makes the whole package 300 lbs.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/blueprint-engines-four-cylinder-crate-engine-ls-head/amp/

 

[mjlogan88]

That’s a 2.3 ecoboost right? Looks like mine anyway

No clue, random google image search

Looks like it though, that’s what the bottom end of my duratec looked like which is essentially an econonboost

 

[gt1guy]

You mean, like this ?

Yes.

Now imagine another set of idler gears at 3 & 9 o'clock that branch out to run your accessories.

Could be built into the motor plate. Just need to pick up off the gear drive.

 

[Tech Tim]

LS 4cyl? I doubt they’ll ever make the block but it could be cool. But a cast iron block makes the whole package 300 lbs.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/blueprint-engines-four-cylinder-crate-engine-ls-head/amp/

 

[Bebop]

Yes.

Now imagine another set of idler gears at 3 & 9 o'clock that branch out to run your accessories.

Could be built into the motor plate. Just need to pick up off the gear drive.

But why though... This gear drive already exists for Chevy engines and the cam driven oil pump also exists. Use that.

 

[Isdtbower]

We have electrically boosted brakes, water pumps, and steering. Why not an oil pump too?
Damn near in the EV class already.

Dual Stage - EMP

The OP3530 pump is a 2-stage positive displacement gear pump featuring a brushless DC motor and integrated motor drive controller.

www.emp-corp.com

 

[Bebop]

Imagine if you loose your alternator belt, you loose the engine too