Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[mobil1syn]

That's annoying l. Hell even F1 talks about failures and there is shitload more money at stake with one of the back marker teams than in the entire 4400 class.

it also depends on their role in product development, the part that fails make look and be branded like the regular one so they cant be spilling the beans about thigns.

 

[posford]

I’m not saying it’s right. Just telling you why. With my loose lips and big mouth, I have cost my team opportunities because I’m a liability. Some people are smarter than that and have the opportunities to show for it.

Meanwhile at Ford "We better get this guy a motor so he doesn't bitch"

 

[Jeffh555]

In the case of Scherer's motor last year, they talked about the failure on the Wheeling Wine and Whiskey pocast this month. I don't think that was a case of hiding it, just of not spending the time/effort to come on here and talk about it. It could all be BS, I don't know.

I find some of the best info is on podcasts, which make sense. It's a massive time suck to create videos or forum posts to talk about technical details, and then answer all the BS follow up questions. If you're a guest on someone else's podcast, you can just show up/call in, babble for 1-3 hours, then go on with your day. The podcast host has to deal with the post production, feedback,etc.

The Talent Tank was good while it lasted, very U4 focused with lots of access to the big names

Wheeling Wine and Whiskey is pretty good, not U4 focused, but increasing U4 access. The hosts are rec wheelers.

Cade Rodd started a podcast, The Slightly Heated Podcast. As far as I can tell it's on YouTube only. I haven't listened to it yet, but I feel like there's some potential. I at least am excited to hear him talk about this year's KOH and scissoring with Schererer.

 

[Bebop]

Cade Rodd started a podcast, The Slightly Heated Podcast. As far as I can tell it's on YouTube only. I haven't listened to it yet, but I feel like there's some potential. I at least am excited to hear him talk about this year's KOH and scissoring with Schererer.

Thanks for sharing that, I had no idea.
Going to listen tonight.

 

[Tech Tim]

Both of them are good for a lot more, especially if you change the tuning.
Tons, I mean tons of aftermarket support for the 8hp95 with Trackhawk guys running 1000+hp and launching them at the strip.
Again, different than a 6h straight beating but worth checking out.

Thanks.

You can't say that Erik Miller isn't serious about KOH.
Does John Webb run a dry sump ?

He is definitely serious about KOH, but not enough to take every precaution?

Also what SLOWPOKE693 says below.....

If he were serious he would have showed up with an IFS car this year...... Or a SxS.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I'd love to see Miller and Slawson try a well designed IFS. They both are great drivers, it'd be interesting to see what they could do with a floppy front end.

Fully aware. They call those dry sump systems

How many vette engines blew up because GM figured out how to make the car pull more Gs than the oiling system could control? And that was with their "innovative" wet/dry sump bullshit.

The GM "damp sump" crap is what cost Scherer a motor or two when he started running the LS7s and what ultimately got him into dry sump systems.

This is why a post KOH live would be so cool. On the live feed last year we were told the motor was hurt. Not to anyone’s fault, at the time, they may have thought that, but then they find out what actually happened wasn’t what they thought.

3-4 weeks after KOH they can get a post KOH live with more detail. I do understand people don’t always tear down their car within 3-4 weeks

LIVE feed announcers can only guess whats going on from what they see on screen, just like the rest of us. I called it out to the wife when Scherer hit the lake bed that there was something wrong, that he should've been going a lot faster. I was guessing engine or driveshaft, because the car looked like it was handling good.

Maybe someday the announcers will have live connections with the racers and the racers will be giving them play-by-play in car action, until then, it's all conjecture.

That’s a good point, I wonder where Tech Tim got the info on his motor, I vividly remember the live feed saying the motor was hurt.

I heard that from J himself a week or two after the race. He said the engine was fouling plugs at lower RPMs and once fouled, they weren't clearing out. iirc they replaced a couple plugs at one of the remote pits.

As far as the live feed saying his motor was hurt, see the statement a couple lines up.

Tech Tim and Scherer are tight.

I've been lucky enough to be in some really cool positions and made a few friends in this industry over the years.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I’m not saying it’s right. Just telling you why. With my loose lips and big mouth, I have cost my team opportunities because I’m a liability. Some people are smarter than that and have the opportunities to show for it.

Content is money.

Look at YouTube. Very mediocre performance getting plenty of sponsorship thrown at it because they're fastidious about making everything they do a public spectacle.

Of course all this shit is a gray area and there's no one right answer.

Anyway, you'd think that "guys, we need to show people content to promote our series" coming from the top down (i.e. the racing organization) would act as more of a counterbalance to "race team secrecy" than it does.

 

[mobil1syn]

The GM "damp sump" crap is what cost Scherer a motor or two when he started running the LS7s and what ultimately got him into dry sump systems.

lets not for JR and his stubborness

 

[Tech Tim]

lets not for JR and his stubborness

Oh yeah.... and iirc, didn't Dave Cole (& Ellinger?) end up going dry sump in his 3rz rock crawler also? Or at least there was discussion on it.

 

[mobil1syn]

Oh yeah.... and iirc, didn't Dave Cole (& Ellinger?) end up going dry sump in his 3rz rock crawler also? Or at least there was discussion on it.

never went to a dry sump. imo the custom made pickup was the problem, once they got OEM parts the oiling problem went away. we got good at swapping motors friday night on site, because you know that whole prep thing was overrated. ooh man some miserable fun times

 

[ridered3]

Biggest issue with boosted engines is they dont tolerate tuning or spark/fueling issues.
na engines just stops making power where boosted will self destruct during fueling and ingnition issues

Bebop remind me again why you want a supercharger?? Knowing the answer is to go faster and cooler engine noises

 

[Yotota]

That is a pretty cool rig and he beats the hell out of it in the videos I've seen.

BUT does he beat the hell out of it for 6 hours straight?

Exactly.

And turbo 4cyl power is super boosty and peaky at those numbers, which would suck in the rocks.

And turbo 4cyl engines making big power make tons of heat. Not good for the desert.

It's a cool rig, but it only really works for his driving style: 30 seconds of full throttle wheel spin at a time, then lower RPMs for a bit, then more full throttle wheelspin.

 

[Bebop]

Bebop remind me again why you want a supercharger?? Knowing the answer is to go faster and cooler engine noises

I want a blower because I cannot afford a 632ci big block.
If I did, I'd go N/A

 

[benw]

Who is building ECUs for the 8xxx transmissions?

Here you go TCU 2.0 TURBOLAMIK

 

[mobil1syn]

I want a blower because I cannot afford a 632ci big block.
If I did, I'd go N/A

ooh please ... you got no kids, no wife, you got money

 

[Bebop]

ooh please ... you got no kids, no wife, you got money

I'm also paying a mortgage on a house with no wife to split the bill...













Back to KOH engines :

Lightweight, efficient, powerful: the new Audi turbo engine for the DTM

The beginning of a new era in the DTM: Starting in the 2019 season, the Class 1 race cars of the popular touring car racing series will use modern and highly efficient turbo engines. The two-liter four-cylinder power-plant of the Audi RS 5 DTM delivers more than 610 horsepower. By means of the...

www.audi-mediacenter.com

187 lbs
610 hp
479 lbs/ft
Runs on pump 93.
Built for 3500+mi of punishing racetrack use.

The technology is there.

 

[ridered3]

I want a blower because I cannot afford a 632ci big block.
If I did, I'd go N/A

Haha. Nothing like a rhetorical question


There is a measly 572 BB sitting there you could borrow.

 

[RustyC]

I'm also paying a mortgage on a house with no wife to split the bill...

Man you just need one of those sweet Georgia peaches to make you Merican'
Seriously we need your vote!

 

[Bebop]

Haha. Nothing like a rhetorical question


There is a measly 572 BB sitting there you could borrow.

I know someone who wouldn't like that lol

Man you just need one of those sweet Georgia peaches to make you Merican'
Seriously we need your vote!

I like sketchy tattooed redheads that wave a giant red flag.
Finding a sweet peach and settling down sounds appealing to my logical brain but the french/italian heart wants something else.
So they compromised and got buggies. Same level of toxicity but I can lock them in my garage when they piss me off and not get sent to jail.

 

[broken4_racing]

Jumping back to the 6L80, I think its the perfect trans for Ultra4. I raced in the EMC this year with a LS3/6L80. Was I a top contender? No lol.

But anyways, with the new Holley controller being compatible with the Terminator system, Now we can get all the benefits of a Holley system, and run the 6L80. I have been racing 5 years on a stock rebuilt 6L80 with the stock "guaranteed to blow up" converter. With a 120ohm resister, I can also tune the TCM with HPtuners to adjust everything from shift pressures, tutd, etc, while still getting full communication to the Holley CANBUS for logging and digital dashes.

With the lower gearing in 1/2 we can run lower, stronger gear ratios (4.10) in the diffs, while still keeping the out of pocket acceleration. It also opens the door for more TCase or SCS ratios. Currently have a 2:1 205 and have yet to feel I need lower while racing.

I have TUTD wired to a toggle switch within reach of my fingers, where I never have to take a hand off the wheel other than to go P/R/D.

My only gripe is the length, but I think that I can shorten it up on the next car as I still have the stock 4wd adapter, along with a 2" Aluminum adapter.

 

[ridered3]

Mega truck class would be cool, just to see all the carnage!

Going to need some bigger recovery vehicles!!

People can’t be saying anything about a sponsors failed product or risk losing said sponsorship. For instance, there is a major team in the game that is sponsored by PSC steering. I know that they break steering parts, I’ve been there when they were walking because of failed steering parts. On social media they go in every post about steering and say that PSC is the best and they’ve never had a failure. Probably why I can never secure cash sponsorship, I tell the whole story always.

100% accurate. I remember a few years ago watching some YouTube stream from a Stock Class racer turning laps at a NorCal race. His wife is in the background saying these tires f'ing suck. They are terrible etc. First thing post race out of his mouth, thanks tire sponsor X. These tires were great with amazing traction etc.

I’m not saying it’s right. Just telling you why. With my loose lips and big mouth, I have cost my team opportunities because I’m a liability. Some people are smarter than that and have the opportunities to show for it.

Honesty can be a cruel mistress!

I know someone who wouldn't like that lol


I like sketchy tattooed redheads that wave a giant red flag.
Finding a sweet peach and settling down sounds appealing to my logical brain but the french/italian heart wants something else.
So they compromised and got buggies. Same level of toxicity but I can lock them in my garage when they piss me off and not get sent to jail.

LS with some giggle gas and he'd be fine for awhile

That might be the most American thing you could have typed in terms of descriptions and comparisons

 

[Bebop]

LS with some giggle gas and he'd be fine for awhile

That might be the most American thing you could have typed in terms of descriptions and comparisons

I'm also far from being a catch.
Sooooooo I just keep grinding making my stupid little twisted wires and building my american dream.
Maybe one day the perfect one will just appear out of nowhere, but for now, I got bigger fishes to fry

 

[ridered3]

I'm also far from being a catch.
Sooooooo I just keep grinding making my stupid little twisted wires and building my american dream.
Maybe one day the perfect one will just appear out of nowhere, but for now, I got bigger fishes to fry

Understandable all around! Enjoyed the description for sure.

 

[RustyC]

I am glad to hear this feedback as I am setting on a 6L80 / 205 combo now. I installed a GM32 spline input into the Ford case. I do need it clocked up a few degrees. I am considering redrilling a pattern in the 205. Not sure if there is enough meat for the threads.

Other than the logging what is the advantage of the Holley system vs an OEM E38?
I have HP tuners and have use Android devices to monitor my gen 3 stuff now.
I can change parameters and log using HP just a little more clumsy with the laptop?

I would really like a gen3 DBC / 6L80 combo but that requires OEM Gm plus ZeroGravity or Holley.
Things get costly vs just going Gen4 DBW and HP tuners.

 

[Bebop]

Other than the logging what is the advantage of the Holley system vs an OEM E38?

For your usage, zero.
I'd use the OEM ECU if I were in your shoes.

 

[RustyC]

I have an unreasonable fear of ECU failure. I could clone an E38 easily to have as a spare. If the TCM fails? Well just bring a trailer.

 

[Bebop]

I have an unreasonable fear of ECU failure. I could clone an E38 easily to have as a spare. If the TCM fails? Well just bring a trailer.

The OEM ECU is a tank. You'll be fine.

 

[broken4_racing]

Other than the logging what is the advantage of the Holley system vs an OEM E38?

No real reason other than being able to log at all times, vs just hooked up to the laptop. As well as my future plans are PDMs, CAN Keypads, etc. Just allows for way more options and compatibility for an entire electrical system. I ran the stock E38 for the last few years with zero issues

 

[JR4X]

I am glad to hear this feedback as I am setting on a 6L80 / 205 combo now. I installed a GM32 spline input into the Ford case. I do need it clocked up a few degrees. I am considering redrilling a pattern in the 205. Not sure if there is enough meat for the threads.

Other than the logging what is the advantage of the Holley system vs an OEM E38?
I have HP tuners and have use Android devices to monitor my gen 3 stuff now.
I can change parameters and log using HP just a little more clumsy with the laptop?

I would really like a gen3 DBC / 6L80 combo but that requires OEM Gm plus ZeroGravity or Holley.
Things get costly vs just going Gen4 DBW and HP tuners.

This for a crawler or are you building an U4 car?

 

[Bebop]

No real reason other than being able to log at all times, vs just hooked up to the laptop. As well as my future plans are PDMs, CAN Keypads, etc. Just allows for way more options and compatibility for an entire electrical system. I ran the stock E38 for the last few years with zero issues

Holley has 0 extra PDM / CAN compatibility compared to an OEM ECU. I don't see what you're gaining here.
As far as logging, if you use a logger dash you could achieve the same outcome.


As a disclaimer, I'm less and less a fan of the Holley stuff the more I implement CANBus solutions.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

You got an example of that?

I've seen some shit done with roller chain and a sprocket spacer but it certainly wasn't a "yeah let me take this to the desert for a few hundred miles of racing" type setup.

You know way less about go fast stuff than you think you do.......