Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[JR4X]

Why do you say that?

If you are referring to the LS part, Kinda what Mobil1syn said. But not the only reason. If you’re referring to the mid engine part. Packaging, weight balance.

because hes a ford guy

I’ll give a long winded dissertation if you’d like. In short, They are a giant hunk of shit built underneath great flowing heads.

 

[Arickvan]

I've been waiting to hear about some lightweight cars

smaller honda or chevy motors with 300hp, ifs/irs or even ifs/solid or solid/solid

some mix of U4/moonbuggy/sxs

hell strip a new bronco down to and youre close, turbo 4cly, portals, solid rear, just get rid of all the "heavy"

 

[bdkw1]

I'm 31" waist and 6'3. So you're saying the Alphas would be better for me ? I currently have +2" height, normal width PRPs


That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

If your going hardshell, get one with custom pour foam insert. Otherwise they will never fit right.

I've riden in sparco's, corbas. Neither one fit me. I won't get in one without a custom insert anymore. For personal stuff, I will stick with Mastercraft 3g's. I've had thousands of race miles in them with several high speed crashes, never an issue.

 

[Winchested]

On the 6+ speed trans. I think I heard only 1 car in the whole 2 days mentioned having a 6l80/90e.

Unfortunately due to them being a 100% computer controlled shift you can't Manual valve body them all you can do is the paddle shifters or select shift up and down I believe. Can't hit reverse quick on that setup.

On the horsepower issue, look at what Amber managed on a 450-500 hp car that the Slawsons pushed to a win the day before. She still managed a top 25 finish. Had she had the experience to drive fast she could have been a top 15 finish. And that was on a car with no bypasses...

Something about simplicity still rings true.

 

[bdkw1]

Mopar® Unleashes the New 807-horsepower Hellcrate Redeye Supercharged HEMI® Crate Engine

Mopar® is unleashing the most powerful production muscle-car engine ever available to builders and enthusiasts with the launch of its newest crate ...

www.dodgegarage.com

Mopar Performance Crate Hellcrate Engine Controller Kit - KarlKustoms.com

Buy Mopar Performance Crate Hellcrate Engine Controller Kit From Karl Kustoms, One Of The Largest Online Retailers Of Chevy Performance Parts In The USA. Call (855) 806-1147 or Order Online!

www.karlkustoms.com

Dodge Hemi Hellcat to Chevy Transmission, Adapter Kit

Dodge Hemi Transmission Adapter, Hellcat 6.2L and 6.4L to Chevy 4L80E Transmission. Uses the original factory starter in the stock location. Number DO103.

transmissioncenter.net

I think they can figure it out... Lots of other options for harnesses and stuff to.

That engine lives a quarter mile at a time. Beating on it for an hour straight will kill it. That's if you can keep it cool for an hour. By the time you stack up the intercooler radiator and radiator, that's a lot of heat to get rid of.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

That engine lives a quarter mile at a time. Beating on it for an hour straight will kill it. That's if you can keep it cool for an hour. By the time you stack up the intercooler radiator and radiator, that's a lot of heat to get rid of.

Methanol

 

[Tech Tim]

Cutting edge for a future Mega Truck class…

Mega truck class would be cool, just to see all the carnage!

I’m still thinking a little mini UFO built for 37’s could be the move, bridge the gap between the spindly little SXS and the brute simplicity of the U4 car. Some hotrod turbo 4 cyl, auto trans, SCS t-case, no more than 80 inches wide to the outside of the tires. Hit the 3000 pound min limit and real 37’s.

Definitely!

We were talking with Scherer years ago about building a small lightweight rig, save every ounce type rig. The idea was like an F1 car; IF you ran clean, it would hold together, if you hit something wrong, it would come apart, probably spectacularly.
J was talking with Wiseman for custom gearboxs etc. This was a year, if not two years before Healy was working with Wiseman.

Cade Rodds winch line being fucked like 2ft out was total amature hour shit. Part of race prep should be unspooling the line and respooling it loosely so it's not pinched and won't come out. And the freespool not working is unacceptable....

Yeah, the winching skill level and prep was atrocious.

I think the days of solid axle cars running up front in 4400 are numbered if not already over.

There will always be Miller and Slawson to last minute snipe out a win if all the hot IFS cars break/crash/rollover.

I do wonder how much long solid rear will reign king.

I will say Live Axle rear will be competitive for years to come.

Slawson and Miller aren't switching, they are up front on any given day.

Yep. BUT I sure would love to see both of them give a good performing IFS a try, it would completely change their outcomes.

Jim always has a heart attack when watching U4 racers attempt to winch. It’s comical for me at his comments.

Anyone who does much proper winching was cringing.

I also forgot to mention, I am surprised teams haven't done much R&D with modern 8, 9, and 10 speed transmissions.

THIS! A few years ago I was chatting with Jason and he was looking at the 850RE (JL/JT), iirc it was finding a decent stand alone controller for the trans that was the problem.

 

[crazybluerider]

Methanol

3/8 of a mile per gallon.

 

[Snowy]

If you are referring to the LS part, Kinda what Mobil1syn said. But not the only reason. If you’re referring to the mid engine part. Packaging, weight balance.



I’ll give a long winded dissertation if you’d like. In short, They are a giant hunk of shit built underneath great flowing heads.

I do enjoy a good dissertation.

I struggle to oil my Toyota powered truggy and the LS oiling is a big reason I’m nervous to make the jump but I’m genuinely curious to hear your race application thoughts on the platform.

 

[Zg86]

Methanol not an option unless you can package a 300 gallon cell.

 

[LScout800]

That engine lives a quarter mile at a time. Beating on it for an hour straight will kill it. That's if you can keep it cool for an hour. By the time you stack up the intercooler radiator and radiator, that's a lot of heat to get rid of.

Figured there was more technical reasons to not run supercharged hellcat engines that people actually racing had figured out. Not that they were third graders that could not figure out a wiring schematic or anything new.

 

[Tech Tim]

Scherer lost KOH last year with a hurt motor, the Campbells are fighting engine issues the past couple years. We have heard of reliability issues with these high hp motors. I believe Dodge has thousands and thousands of hours testing a 700+ hp and they can take advantage of that.

Fouling plugs is what hurt Scherer last year. The motor was still fine.

because hes a ford guy

Well don't tell him that the LS is a Ford design....

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Any rule against in race refueling? A helicopter and some Redhead valves and fuel mileage isn't a concern anymore.

 

[Tech Tim]

VW VR6 is a small, but powerful engine.



Can take 600 hp on the stock bottom end.

edit - The VR6 looks to be 400lbs or so, heavy, so that's not the solution.

The Ford ecoboost V6s put out decent numbers, but they are 400lbs too.

 

[mobil1syn]

youre money is better spent on dropping unsprung weight than dealing with the headache of a 'unique' motor.

JR4X how is the drivability of the ecoboost with slow technical stuff?

 

[mobil1syn]

On the horsepower issue, look at what Amber managed on a 450-500 hp car that the Slawsons pushed to a win the day before. She still managed a top 25 finish. Had she had the experience to drive fast she could have been a top 15 finish. And that was on a car with no bypasses...

she is 2.5hrs off the pace, that car does not have what it takes to be a contender in 4400.

2nd place was 30mins behind the winner.

 

[bdkw1]

If we're talking light high output motors......

Specs | Monobloc Hayabusa V8 - JFC Racing

www.jfcracing.com

That would go nicely in a super golf cart

 

[arse_sidewards]

You have no idea what you're talking about.
The Fun Havers cars have 50+k$ in custom wiring / controls.

You were exactly who I was thinking of when I made that statement. You have a bouncer that needs fucktons of hp 1/4mi at a time, not long enough to heat up. 700hp on the factory tune should be of interest to you but you don't think of anything outside your LS fanboy bubble.

Mopar® Unleashes the New 807-horsepower Hellcrate Redeye Supercharged HEMI® Crate Engine

Mopar® is unleashing the most powerful production muscle-car engine ever available to builders and enthusiasts with the launch of its newest crate ...

www.dodgegarage.com

Mopar Performance Crate Hellcrate Engine Controller Kit - KarlKustoms.com

Buy Mopar Performance Crate Hellcrate Engine Controller Kit From Karl Kustoms, One Of The Largest Online Retailers Of Chevy Performance Parts In The USA. Call (855) 806-1147 or Order Online!

www.karlkustoms.com

Dodge Hemi Hellcat to Chevy Transmission, Adapter Kit

Dodge Hemi Transmission Adapter, Hellcat 6.2L and 6.4L to Chevy 4L80E Transmission. Uses the original factory starter in the stock location. Number DO103.

transmissioncenter.net

I think they can figure it out... Lots of other options for harnesses and stuff to.

Yeah I knew they existed. They gave them to Roadkill to much fanfare the better part of a decade ago.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

If we're talking light high output motors......

Specs | Monobloc Hayabusa V8 - JFC Racing

www.jfcracing.com

That would go nicely in a super golf cart

It makes no torque and sounds like it's high strung as an N/A engine but very impressive torque numbers for the twin turbo version.

What's one of those cost?

 

[JR4X]

youre money is better spent on dropping unsprung weight than dealing with the headache of a 'unique' motor.

JR4X how is the drivability of the ecoboost with slow technical stuff?

Probably better with an auto than a manual. The 10 speed guys can do stuff staying in high range while I have to drop to low to keep the RPM up where there’s enough torque to do what I need to do. But it’s extremely rapid response to say the least. Turbo lag is not an issue. I went to a 3.8:1 low range this year paired with the manual and love it. It gives me the right gear spread everywhere I need it. A torque converter would compliment it nicely though

 

[arse_sidewards]

LS engines are cheap to build but not great. They are widely used because of the cheap part.

Just like the SBC before them.

 

[bdkw1]

It makes no torque and sounds like it's high strung as an N/A engine but very impressive torque numbers for the twin turbo version.

What's one of those cost?

2-1 gear reduction before the trans to make the auto live. Now you have 560ftlb's into the trans. Still not enough?

 

[mobil1syn]

Probably better with an auto than a manual. The 10 speed guys can do stuff staying in high range while I have to drop to low to keep the RPM up where there’s enough torque to do what I need to do. But it’s extremely rapid response to say the least. Turbo lag is not an issue. I went to a 3.8:1 low range this year paired with the manual and love it. It gives me the right gear spread everywhere I need it. A torque converter would compliment it nicely though

how big is the 10sp, can you make it fully manual?

 

[benw]

On the 6+ speed trans. I think I heard only 1 car in the whole 2 days mentioned having a 6l80/90e.

Unfortunately due to them being a 100% computer controlled shift you can't Manual valve body them all you can do is the paddle shifters or select shift up and down I believe. Can't hit reverse quick on that setup.

On the horsepower issue, look at what Amber managed on a 450-500 hp car that the Slawsons pushed to a win the day before. She still managed a top 25 finish. Had she had the experience to drive fast she could have been a top 15 finish. And that was on a car with no bypasses...

Something about simplicity still rings true.

you get reverse by moving the shifter from D/M to R. Has nothing to do with paddles or tap up tap down buttons. Its just as quick to hit reverse with a 6l80 as it is in an old fashioned transmission.

 

[JR4X]

Well don't tell him that the LS is a Ford design....

he knows. He might try a LS headed Windsor one day.

 

[Penetrode Offroad]

LS engines are cheap to build but not great. They are widely used because of the cheap part.

Thanks!

because hes a ford guy

Thats what I figured.

If you want to go really fast and money is no object you build a blown Hemi.

If you want to go pretty fast but money is slightly tight you build a Ford

If you want a cheap motor to go fast temporarily you build an LS

Gotcha

If you are referring to the LS part

This

 

[JR4X]

how big is the 10sp,

They don’t seem that big but I think they’re heavy like an Allison

can you make it fully manual?

Not yet. I ASSume that it’ll be like the 6L80/90E and have to be electronically controlled. There is no stand-alone way to run the 10 speed currently. A couple people claim to be working on it but not available yet.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Anyone have real numbers on what a small boosted engine wieghs vs an n/a aluminum LS?

I have thought about using a turbo K24 in my rig to "save wieght" but given the same drivetrain otherwise. I feel like a turbo, piping and I/C eat up those wieght davings really quickly.

The 300hp NA honda V6 may be the only way to realistically save wieght over an aluminum block LS.

You could maybe drop to a smaller trans to save, what? 25 lbs? But is it worth it?

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Dorito power

 

[Provience]

youre money is better spent on dropping unsprung weight than dealing with the headache of a 'unique' motor.

JR4X how is the drivability of the ecoboost with slow technical stuff?

Check out the laser nut ifs/irs buggy for enduring "everything is perfect but too unique" issues