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"built" zuk axles?

The easy solution is a custom length small bearing Ford 9" semi float shaft.
Then a set of custom broached/EDM 28sp side gears and you're in business.

That's the easiest and strongest solution that doesn't require fabrication IMO.

Wouldn't welding the bearing cups for those axles be fabrication?

I might spend the money to edm arb side gears, definitely not stockers for a mini spool. I'd rather take some stock 9" side gears and make them fit, then weld the diff. If all works out, I would like a rear arb eventually though.
 
Well, after this weekend, I'm pretty impressed with the rcv's and stock rear axles. I was running trails that guys on 40-42 had issues. I was way out of my class at hoodoo :laughing:

Lots of dropping off ledges have to steer and reverse with all the wieght on the front. Launching up and over rocks, banging up loose Boulder fields, ect. Did I mention I filled my front tires over half full of water? :lmao:
 
1st gen tracker IIRC.
More info available on the old PBB.
 
1st gen tracker IIRC.
More info available on the old PBB.

Interesting.

I had all three cut apart a few months ago and was looking at my options. I want to say the Sami was the smallest OD. Then 1st gen tracker had the Sami ID but bigger OD. I can't remember if the 2nd gen had just a bigger ID or OD as well. Maybe I posted about it in here.

That would make it even easier.
 
99-05? Trackers and vitara.

Theyre 60" wide and as far as I have read the ring gear is even a little bigger than the 89-98 track kicks. The bearings are the same OD as the first gen, but a bigger ID. They also went away from the weird 4 bolt axle shafts. Basically all the ingredients for a pretty decent axle, but for some reason decided to stick with the little 26 spline at the diff.

OK, I was right.

So as of now, I'm thinking I need to find a 3RD 2nd gen tracker axle to cut up :laughing: if the small bearing 9" stuff works, that would make it even cheaper.

Anyone have some side gears from a 9"?:flipoff2:
 
Any of you try it yet? I don’t have any 9” stuff laying around. I also searched the old site to no avail.
 

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Since I last updated this thread I've done quite a bit of work on my rear axle.

I Was able to categorically rule out that the H and J series airlocker side gears are compatible, so the solution was to have the 26 spline side gears broached to 30 spline.

Stock gear:

IMG_3452-X2.jpg



broached:

IMG_3511-X2.jpg


The ARB centre needed a very light linish to clear the toyota splines.

IMG_3503-X2.jpg


At the wheel end, toyota 60 series rear spindles were machined to fit into the tracker bearing pockets (my axle had an additional adapter welded on to suit a Samurai front spindle, but it's irrelevant, the same solution would work without the adapter.

IMG_3538-X2.jpg



The 60 series hub was machined to fit inside a Samurai/tracker front brake rotor and redrilled to 5 on 5.5", so I retained Suzuki brakes.

IMG_3543-X2.jpg


axles are Nitro Gear cut-to-length full float LC rears. Ironically, the short side is about 1/2" longer than stock landcruiser, the long side is about 6" shorter. Axles are en route to me now.

Yes, there's custom machining in this solution, but none of the custom work is on wear items or consumables like brake rotors, axles or drive flanges. All service parts are off the shelf landcruiser or suzuki. I was very happy I could buy an off-the-shelf axle rather than having to have custom shafts made, although that's an option through the use of drive flanges and a double splined axle.

I'm aware that LC stuff is likely expensive in the US, locally a complete axle with shafts but no centre ran me $150. I think it's possible to bit LC spindles bare from US vendors to weld into your tubes, which only leaves a hub to purchase, everything is just service parts or readily available aftermarket.

Best of all, this is only adding about 20lb over my current 26 spline setup, and I have the added benefit of larger inner wheel bearings and wider bearing spacing, much better suited to a heavy wheel and tire than the suzuki spindle. I'm pretty confident I won't be able to break a 30 spline 1.31" cromo full float shaft.

You can argue this isn't a "suzuki" axle any more, but it is a suzuki housing, third, suzuki airlocker part # and runs suzuki brakes. It's also Samurai width.

Axles are a week away. I need to buy another airlocker for the front now as this locker was pirated from the front to go in the back.
 
Since I last updated this thread I've done quite a bit of work on my rear axle.

I Was able to categorically rule out that the H and J series airlocker side gears are compatible, so the solution was to have the 26 spline side gears broached to 30 spline.

Stock gear:

IMG_3452-X2.jpg



broached:

IMG_3511-X2.jpg


The ARB centre needed a very light linish to clear the toyota splines.

IMG_3503-X2.jpg


At the wheel end, toyota 60 series rear spindles were machined to fit into the tracker bearing pockets (my axle had an additional adapter welded on to suit a Samurai front spindle, but it's irrelevant, the same solution would work without the adapter.

IMG_3538-X2.jpg



The 60 series hub was machined to fit inside a Samurai/tracker front brake rotor and redrilled to 5 on 5.5", so I retained Suzuki brakes.

IMG_3543-X2.jpg


axles are Nitro Gear cut-to-length full float LC rears. Ironically, the short side is about 1/2" longer than stock landcruiser, the long side is about 6" shorter. Axles are en route to me now.

Yes, there's custom machining in this solution, but none of the custom work is on wear items or consumables like brake rotors, axles or drive flanges. All service parts are off the shelf landcruiser or suzuki. I was very happy I could buy an off-the-shelf axle rather than having to have custom shafts made, although that's an option through the use of drive flanges and a double splined axle.

I'm aware that LC stuff is likely expensive in the US, locally a complete axle with shafts but no centre ran me $150. I think it's possible to bit LC spindles bare from US vendors to weld into your tubes, which only leaves a hub to purchase, everything is just service parts or readily available aftermarket.

Best of all, this is only adding about 20lb over my current 26 spline setup, and I have the added benefit of larger inner wheel bearings and wider bearing spacing, much better suited to a heavy wheel and tire than the suzuki spindle. I'm pretty confident I won't be able to break a 30 spline 1.31" cromo full float shaft.

You can argue this isn't a "suzuki" axle any more, but it is a suzuki housing, third, suzuki airlocker part # and runs suzuki brakes. It's also Samurai width.

Axles are a week away. I need to buy another airlocker for the front now as this locker was pirated from the front to go in the back.
Awesome work! Not to worry about it not being Suzuki, at a certain point 26 spline shafts don’t cut it, and Suzuki didn’t provide us anything bigger. I like the hybrid approach.

I have a short cut to length dana 44 Yukon shaft I plan to machine down a dana 44 mini spool to fit inside the tracker diff and run disc brake dana 44 outers off the cheapest donor axle I can find. At least this is my current plan. Feel free to poke holes in my idea.
 
Awesome work! Not to worry about it not being Suzuki, at a certain point 26 spline shafts don’t cut it, and Suzuki didn’t provide us anything bigger. I like the hybrid approach.

I have a short cut to length dana 44 Yukon shaft I plan to machine down a dana 44 mini spool to fit inside the tracker diff and run disc brake dana 44 outers off the cheapest donor axle I can find. At least this is my current plan. Feel free to poke holes in my idea.
I was thinking something similar, but minitruck rear axles, since they seem to hold up well.
 
I'm no fan of semifloat axles in a 4X4 application. To my mind they're a cheap and quick-to-manufacture solution for light duty use, but the lack of serviceability and amount of axle strength they leave on the table makes them unappealing to me.

They also concentrate all the twist into the very last bit of the axle up at the diff spline. The bigger the axle at the bearing the worse this problem is.
 
I'm no fan of semifloat axles in a 4X4 application. To my mind they're a cheap and quick-to-manufacture solution for light duty use, but the lack of serviceability and amount of axle strength they leave on the table makes them unappealing to me.

They also concentrate all the twist into the very last bit of the axle up at the diff spline. The bigger the axle at the bearing the worse this problem is.

Depends on the axle design. Properly made axles will have the majority of the axle diameter less than the minor root diameter of the splines.

As mentioned, stock Toyota mini truck axles are very strong. I've seen them hold up to some crazy abuse, and I've actually only seen one break, which was in a very bad place.

One (rare) thing I have heard of with semi float axles is somehow breaking right at the bearing, resulting in the tire and wheel falling off.

Obviously fu float is much better 99% of the time, but in my wheelin experience, a decent semi float axle works fine for a lot of people.

One thing that would be cool for a Sami is a unit bearing full float. Lightweight, easy to service, but stronger than semi float.
 
As mentioned, stock Toyota mini truck axles are very strong. I've seen them hold up to some crazy abuse,
No. They're shit. Just like every other 8"ish and down ring gear axle you find in mini trucks. They just tend to survive because you can only get so much traction when all you have is the rear half of a small pickup with maybe some tools in the bed on top of it. Being behind a drivetrain with 100hp +/-20 also sure doesn't hurt.

Look at the root diameter of the spline. It's fucking tiny. There is no way around that. You can turd polish with proper axle shaft design and that'll go a long way toward absorbing shock loads but if you by some miracle you have enough traction to not slip a tire they will pop as soon as you wind up whatever spring you have in the axle shaft, assuming you don't stall your 100-hp shit heap first. This goes for all mini-truck axles. Ford 7.5, the extra turdy 10-bolt GM stuck in the smallest stuff, etc, etc.
 
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No. They're shit. Just like every other 8"ish and down ring gear axle you find in mini trucks. They just tend to survive because you can only get so much traction when all you have is the rear half of a small pickup with maybe some tools in the bed on top of it. Being behind a drivetrain with 100hp +/-20 also sure doesn't hurt.

Look at the root diameter of the spline. It's fucking tiny. There is no way around that. You can turd polish with proper axle shaft design and that'll go a long way toward absorbing shock loads but if you by some miracle you have enough traction to not slip a tire they will pop as soon as you wind up whatever spring you have in the axle shaft, assuming you don't stall your 100-hp shit heap first. This goes for all mini-truck axles.
Did someone stick a mini-truck axle up your Arse_Sidewards?

I have broken a mini-truck shaft, but they are known to be very strong. Not many people breaking them running up to 40s. Yes, typically the R&P is the fuse in a yota axle, but the shafts are still tough as hell.
 
I like semi float on a light weight car for the simplicity and the fact it's much lighter than a full float.

A mini truck semi-float shaft on a samurai will be plenty strong and much lighter than a full float conversion.
 
Did someone stick a mini-truck axle up your Arse_Sidewards?

I have broken a mini-truck shaft, but they are known to be very strong. Not many people breaking them running up to 40s. Yes, typically the R&P is the fuse in a yota axle, but the shafts are still tough as hell.
Just because your broke an R&P first doesn't mean the amount of input torque it took to do so was notable.

Those people are getting away with 40s because the trucks they're on weigh nothing and have no power. Remember, 35s is generally considered to be the "carry spare shafts and joints for front and rear drive-lines and expect to use them unless you've upgraded to bigger/nicer joints and cromo as applicable" point for the fullsize bronco and K5 guys. 37s/38s is generally considered a reasonable maximum for a 31spl 8.8 under a midsize SUV and iffy on the various Jeep D44s (depending on what weak points have been addressed) with chromo shafts being advisable in both.

Those people running 40s on mini truck axles are simply getting away with it because their vehicles are light and make no power and have no gearing. If they had a doubler and got bound up they would pop shit right away. But pretty much none of those people have doublers or fancy deep geared transfer cases because axles are weak enough to present problems before you get into tire sizes that off the shelf 5.xx gear ratios and stock low ranges can't deal with so they get upgraded away long before people start looking for stupid deep gearing.

A mini truck axle is fine, appropriate even, for a zuk on 30-somethings. It's not really fine under anything minitruck sized or larger unless that mini truck is bone stock. They're the smog-era iron heads of the axle world.
 
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God damn you are fucking ignorant.

Go to any west coat trail and there are dozens of rigs running Toyota axles on 37s-40s ~250:1 gearing and pretty good success. Ring and pinion isn't great if you start hoping, but stock rear axles and chomo fronts are very strong. Much stronger than stock 30 spline dana 60 shafts.

Keep your Toyota butt hurt Ness to chit chat at least and quit spamming up tech forums.
 
God damn you are fucking ignorant.

Go to any west coat trail and there are dozens of rigs running Toyota axles on 37s-40s ~250:1 gearing and pretty good success. Ring and pinion isn't great if you start hoping, but stock rear axles and chomo fronts are very strong. Much stronger than stock 30 spline dana 60 shafts.

Keep your Toyota butt hurt Ness to chit chat at least and quit spamming up tech forums.
Commiefornians think their shithole is representative of everywhere and I'm the ignorant one? :shaking:

You can get away with all sorts of stupid hack tastic shit when all you have are dry rocks and you can crawl over them at 0.4mph with accuracy to the inch. It's no different than the people who build the big mud trucks that have comical suspension geometry. Outside of very specific circumstances it just doesn't work, just like any other specialized solution.

Go to any east coast trail (or a lot of the PNW) and those people would be breaking shit or taking bypasses because you need to add speed or horsepower in order to compensate for lack of traction in a lot of circumstances.

You've got a 1.30 axle shaft diameter in a Toyota 8. The only think keeping it alive with 37s or 40s between it and the ground is courteous driving and a lack of horsepower. This has nothing to do with the brand of the axle and everything to do with certain people being unable to face facts. If those people could get over themselves we could go back to talking about zuk stuff.
 
Its got to be what you have for power. I ran the 1.3 on 36s with 0psi locked f/r on Toys stuffed with 5.29s and 6.5s in the case and never questioned anything at 8k rpm. If you've got a 4.3 or something, then I'd question some things.

Buddy ran stock axles locked f/r with the 1.3 with those tall ass skinny TSLs; 34s I think? He snapped axles every goddamn trip out.
 
Commiefornians think their shithole is representative of everywhere and I'm the ignorant one? :shaking:

You can get away with all sorts of stupid hack tastic shit when all you have are dry rocks and you can crawl over them at 0.4mph with accuracy to the inch. It's no different than the people who build the big mud trucks that have comical suspension geometry. Outside of very specific circumstances it just doesn't work, just like any other specialized solution.

Go to any east coast trail (or a lot of the PNW) and those people would be breaking shit or taking bypasses because you need to add speed or horsepower in order to compensate for lack of traction in a lot of circumstances.

You've got a 1.30 axle shaft diameter in a Toyota 8. The only think keeping it alive with 37s or 40s between it and the ground is courteous driving and a lack of horsepower. This has nothing to do with the brand of the axle and everything to do with certain people being unable to face facts. If those people could get over themselves we could go back to talking about zuk stuff.

The added speed is offset by the lack of traction.

Try wheelin 36 grit sand paper rocks on red label krawlers. You don't spin, you break or stall.

The thing about Toyotas is when people are at 250:1 and 3-4k rpm, if the tire is bound, it will snap something.

Plent of people all over wheel Toyota axles, comparing them to the shit axles under an s10, ranger (save the 8.8) or xj is plain retarded. They aren't tons, but they get it done for a lot of people.

Also, we were talking about zuk axles. The reason Toyota axle shafts came up was because we were talking about retrofitting them into a zuk axle. But again, you just have to come in and derail with your Toyota butt hurt Ness like every thread you post in.
 
Oh dear. I guess the clue is in your user name.

Anyway, moving along. The only comment I'll make is that 1.3" 30 spline isn't inadequate in our conditions even in much larger and heavier vehicles than my car so I'm satisfied with the solution for me.

I do need to take issue with this:

Depends on the axle design. Properly made axles will have the majority of the axle diameter less than the minor root diameter of the splines.

That isn't the case, or possible, a semifloat axle. Because a semifloat axle has to support the weight of the car via one bearing, it has to have a much larger diameter than is necessary to transmit torque. Otherwise, the axle (and therefore the wheel) would flex significantly under the weight of the car. This diameter has to taper fairly smoothly towards the spline as the vehicle load on the shaft reduces, so semifloat axles are always at their minimum diameter just near the side gear.

Adding to the serviceability issue is the total hassle of replacing a semifloat axleshaft trailside. I've done it twice and it's required pulling the third and and breaking the centre apart to get the slug out of the side gear. It's taken three hours each time. Again, that's because the design of a semifloat axle means they always break right at the side gear.

Whilst a full float axle is heavier than a semifloat, you have to assess the whole axle. I don't have a weight for a toyota pickup axle, but I've added about 20lb with my toyota axles and hubs over my previous Samurai spindle floater. I've taken way more out of that by swapping from 35" Krawlers to 35" Roxxzillas. Compared to dropping in, say, a semifloat toyota pickup axle complete, I'd put money on my setup being lighter. I guess it's possible to build, say, a 30 spline converted Tracker housing with toyota (or D44) shafts and it might be lighter than my setup, but that's a compete pain for me to sort locally .
 
Oh dear. I guess the clue is in your user name.

Anyway, moving along. The only comment I'll make is that 1.3" 30 spline isn't inadequate in our conditions even in much larger and heavier vehicles than my car so I'm satisfied with the solution for me.

I do need to take issue with this:



That isn't the case, or possible, a semifloat axle. Because a semifloat axle has to support the weight of the car via one bearing, it has to have a much larger diameter than is necessary to transmit torque. Otherwise, the axle (and therefore the wheel) would flex significantly under the weight of the car. This diameter has to taper fairly smoothly towards the spline as the vehicle load on the shaft reduces, so semifloat axles are always at their minimum diameter just near the side gear.

Adding to the serviceability issue is the total hassle of replacing a semifloat axleshaft trailside. I've done it twice and it's required pulling the third and and breaking the centre apart to get the slug out of the side gear. It's taken three hours each time. Again, that's because the design of a semifloat axle means they always break right at the side gear.

Whilst a full float axle is heavier than a semifloat, you have to assess the whole axle. I don't have a weight for a toyota pickup axle, but I've added about 20lb with my toyota axles and hubs over my previous Samurai spindle floater. I've taken way more out of that by swapping from 35" Krawlers to 35" Roxxzillas. Compared to dropping in, say, a semifloat toyota pickup axle complete, I'd put money on my setup being lighter. I guess it's possible to build, say, a 30 spline converted Tracker housing with toyota (or D44) shafts and it might be lighter than my setup, but that's a compete pain for me to sort locally .

Thats a fair point. I guess in order to have them made in the way I mentioned, you have to be on the overkill side on diameter vs wieght.
 
In the case of something like a Samurai axle, it would mean the side gear would need to be 1.51" 35 spline or similar, so the axle coould stay smaller than the root of the splines but still support the weight of the car without bending around the bearing.
 
Maybe it was talked about here already, and I missed it.

Some comments that were made here recently, about going to FF. I like the idea, and trying to keep it rather lightweight and able to source common parts.

If you were able to get the 30spline side gear in it, and ran toyota front long side inners, as a double spline shaft. FJ40 shafts would let you keep a ~60" WMS possibly, and minitruck would net you a few inches wider.

Quick searching did not find a common UB with 30spline, that didnt need a nut. There are Jeep TJ/JK 30spline UBs, which seem to be about the right size, but they need a nut on the axle shaft to hold the UB together.
 
So drill and tap the shaft?

It is possible that an extra snap ring groove and drilling the shaft for a bolt, might be enough, assuming that the factory application is way overkill.

Here is the jeep stub shaft. The face of the yoke contacts the rear of the bearing and the nut holds the bearing tight. The nut is torqued to 175ft-lbs.
?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.jpg


On a little further digging, apparently the JK shaft isnt needed like the previous (YJ/XJ/TJ) ones, to hold the UB together. According to this article, the JK bearing was redesigned so that it did not need to shaft to keep it together, and can be ran without one.
 
It is possible that an extra snap ring groove and drilling the shaft for a bolt, might be enough, assuming that the factory application is way overkill.
Factory is way overkill. They do it that way because it's simpler from a manufacturing perspective.

I forgot about the JK bearings, yeah they're a good option.
 
Superduty unit bearings don’t need the nut and 99 - 04 are 30 spline. They can be made 5 on 5 1/5 or 6 on 5 1/2 bolt circle as well. Some places sell them pre machined for your new bolt pattern. Super common UB flange that several companies sell as well in just about any tube diameter. Currie, Spidertrax, I think RuffStuff sells them.

I ran aftermarket SD 35 spline UB’s f/r on a samurai buggy so that it took the same UB’s on all 4 corners.
 
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