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"built" zuk axles?

YotaAtieToo

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Who's running "built" zuk axles?

I'm going to be picking up a Sami soon, plan is to drop in my 2.0/auto/6.4 gears and then run the 32" sxs tires and beadlocks from the side shit.

I have

1 - 1st gen 4.62 rear axle
1 - 2nd gen 4.62 rear axle
1 - 2nd gen 4.88 rear axle
1 - 2nd gen 4.88 front r&p
2 - Sami rear axles
2 - Sami front axles

So I'm thinking I could get a hybrid rear and run the 4.88 chunk, then put the 4.88s in the Sami front

Or run a whole trackick rear axle and have a ~6" wider hybrid front made. I'll do rcv's anyway, so custom lengths aren't much more.

​​​​​If I didn't have all these zuk parts, I wouldn't consider it, probably just run some toyota axles, but considering that, how expensive toyota axles are ($500+) and how cheap the custom housings are (~$400 ea) I think it would be fun to keep the zuk stuff.

Is the bling zuk stuff a total waste of time for 32s?
 

SLOWPOKE693

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I have exactly what you want for a Samurai sitting on my shop floor.

Mini truck front axle with 5.29's, HP E-locker, real deal longfield shafts/birfs, high steer setup with a drag link, set up for hydro assist and a 3 link. Complete hub to hub including track bar, calipers and braided lines.

Rear axle has a Detroit, 5.29's, cromo axles of unknown brand, and the housing is offset to line up with a Sami T-case. Has a TG truss on it and is set up for a 4 link. Complete drum to drum with 1" spacers and braided brake lines.

I bought Jim's (Shrockworks) Geo Tracker that had a build thread on the other site. He got busy with his company and It was never finished. Guy I bought it from tried to make it a buggy. He hacked up the body and frame and failed miserably. I tried to save it but got frustrated with all the hack and ended up cutting it up. I saved all the good stuff though.

I'm like 90% sure these things are like new inside. Shrockworks guy built them, sold unfinished tracker to the hacker, who scabbed it together enough to move under it's own power onto a trailer, then I bought it.

I have matching driveshafts, a complete PSC hydro assist kit with box, pump/mount, lines, cooler and resivoir sitting with fluid still in it, and the skid plate/link mount Jim at Shrockworks custom made for a 2dr Tracker.

If you want this all this stuff I will make you a hell of a deal to get it all the fuck out of my life. I'm never going to use any of it.


Pictures from his old thread....

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tksas18.jpg
 

YotaAtieToo

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Seriously though, I appreciate the offer. Unless it's stupid stupid cheap and I didn't have to drive 1500 miles to get them, I'll have to pass. I've been down the rabbit hole with a samurai before, and I'm trying to avoid it this time. I think the Toyota axles just make you want bigger tires, and longer wb, more power, ect. I'm really trying to stay with 32s.
 
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YotaAtieToo

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Understandable. Just figured I'd throw it out there in case you were interested in going full retard right out of the gate. :flipoff2:

I appreciate it

If I was there is a set of 9" kinda local. D44 otters on the front, but rcv's double ended ram, all the bs, for a decent price. I'd love to throw some 6.50s in them and some 37s would be sweet.
 

DirtRoads

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If you're going to have a 2.0 with 32" stickies, I don't think you are wasting your time upgrading the stock stuff. I do think that you may end up on toyota axles anyway, so just keep that in mind. I had a fairly built pair of zook axles that I broke fairly regularly with a 1.6 on 32" Chinese mud tires. Stock sami thirds, spartan front, spool rear, trail gear chromo front shafts with 30 spline outers, stock rear shafts.

Spools and rear shafts broke fairly often. With a trackick hybrid, you'll have a stronger diff.
 

YotaAtieToo

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If you're going to have a 2.0 with 32" stickies, I don't think you are wasting your time upgrading the stock stuff. I do think that you may end up on toyota axles anyway, so just keep that in mind. I had a fairly built pair of zook axles that I broke fairly regularly with a 1.6 on 32" Chinese mud tires. Stock sami thirds, spartan front, spool rear, trail gear chromo front shafts with 30 spline outers, stock rear shafts.

Spools and rear shafts broke fairly often. With a trackick hybrid, you'll have a stronger diff.

32s aren't stickies. But I'd like some 33 or 35 stickies. I'll also have an auto, so that should help. I don't really like to hammer in the rocks, I ran out 37 red labels on my old samurai with stock fj80 birfs and didn't break too much.

I really don't want to go down the rabbit hole with toyota axles. I've already done it. I really want to keep this as a small sxs type rig. Bigger tires, longer wb, more weight, ect just make it worse for that.

The Sami chromo stuff is cheap enough to give it a shot.

​​​​
 

DirtRoads

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32s aren't stickies. But I'd like some 33 or 35 stickies. I'll also have an auto, so that should help. I don't really like to hammer in the rocks, I ran out 37 red labels on my old samurai with stock fj80 birfs and didn't break too much.

I really don't want to go down the rabbit hole with toyota axles. I've already done it. I really want to keep this as a small sxs type rig. Bigger tires, longer wb, more weight, ect just make it worse for that.

The Sami chromo stuff is cheap enough to give it a shot.

​​​​

Do it, it'll hold up to 32s. 35" stickies is certainly going to be pushing it but you might get lucky if you're careful.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Do it, it'll hold up to 32s. 35" stickies is certainly going to be pushing it but you might get lucky if you're careful.

I'm tempted to see if I can fit a 27 spline toyota sized shaft in the tracker diff and do a full float offset track kick rear with double spline 27 spline shafts. I figured I could just make the Toyota spider gears fit and weld them in. I know from the Toyota CV's in the front that that's about the biggest shaft that will fit through the spindles. I'll have to see if it's significantly larger than the 26 spline zuk stuff.

The other idea was to use the trail gear offset toyota 30 spline rear shafts and do the same with the spider gears in the diff.

I know even my slightly younger self would have said "just get a Toyota rear" , but I already have so many of these parts, and I really want to stay with small tires.

If it doesn't work out, then I'll just have beefier axles for the kid buggy I'll build some day.

​​​​​
 

2big bronco

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I was running 33×12.5 biggers on this thing and would break front shafts fairly often regardless of what type of terrain I was wheeling. I dropped down to the 31s in this picture and was ok for almost a year until I took it to fordyce where I broke a front right away. The replacement lasted about a year until I broke another front at hollister on a wide open hill climb run bouncing the front of it in the air. Immediately after breaking the shaft I cartwheeled it down the dill and thoroughly destroyed the entire truck.

Screenshot_20200616-095024_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

YotaAtieToo

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Funny, I had 33 boggers on my samurai, but after the Toyota axles.

I'm hoping that the narrower and lighter sxs tires will make a big difference. Kinda like how Toyota guys seem to get away with 39.5" Iroks, but seem to break on almost any other 40.

I also don't really do the full throttle hopping off the ground thing. Since I hate trail repairs :flipoff2:

Wilson has had 35x12.5s on his zuk axles for over a year with good luck. He said he's been trying to break it on the rock pile in his yard, but some how holds together. :laughing:
 

2big bronco

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Funny, I had 33 boggers on my samurai, but after the Toyota axles.

I'm hoping that the narrower and lighter sxs tires will make a big difference. Kinda like how Toyota guys seem to get away with 39.5" Iroks, but seem to break on almost any other 40.

I also don't really do the full throttle hopping off the ground thing. Since I hate trail repairs :flipoff2:

Wilson has had 35x12.5s on his zuk axles for over a year with good luck. He said he's been trying to break it on the rock pile in his yard, but some how holds together. :laughing:

I think if you decide to stay samurai axles you better just buy rcvs from the start. The only reason I went regular chromos on this one is 29s are as big as I plan on running. When it was running I was able to drive it as dumb as I possibly could and not break. I really need to put the computer back in it and figure things out

Screenshot_20200616-213525_Samsung Internet.jpg


Screenshot_20200616-213612_Samsung Internet.jpg


Screenshot_20200616-213550_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
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YotaAtieToo

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I think if you decide to stay samurai axles you better just buy rcvs from the start. The only reason I went regular chromos on this one is 29s are as big as I plan on running. When it was running I was able to drive it as dumb as I possibly could and not break. I really need to put the computer back in it and figure things out

Rcv's would be the plan, it's not that much more anyway.

What about rear shafts? Are the gorilla or whatever ones pretty tough?

I'm surprised no one makes a kit to use bigger diameter shafts, 1" shafts with the 9" vitara 3rd seems silly.

I might try and see if I can weld some toyota side gears in a vitara 3rd.
 
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2big bronco

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Rcv's would be the plan, it's not that much more anyway.

What about rear shafts? Are the gorilla or whatever ones pretty tough?

I'm surprised no one makes a kit to use bigger diameter shafts, 1" shafts with the 9" vitara 3rd seems silly.

I might try and see if I can weld some toyota side gears in a vitara 3rd.


I've never broken a stock rear shaft but have broken a rear aftermarket. I wonder if it's like the 14bolt stuff of 10+ years ago where the aftermarket are not stronger.
 

Itschrisb

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Following your thread. Im currently trying to make the same decision for my Samurai. I dont plan on running anything bigger than a 33 and as much as id love to stretch mine and flat bed it i doubt itll happen anytime soon. I found a set of toyota axles locally for $350 which in my area is pretty cheap. Ive asked this question before because Samurai axle aftermarket seems to have improved a lot so I was always curious if Toyotas are still the way to go. Sorry for the thread hijack haha
 

YotaAtieToo

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Following your thread. Im currently trying to make the same decision for my Samurai. I dont plan on running anything bigger than a 33 and as much as id love to stretch mine and flat bed it i doubt itll happen anytime soon. I found a set of toyota axles locally for $350 which in my area is pretty cheap. Ive asked this question before because Samurai axle aftermarket seems to have improved a lot so I was always curious if Toyotas are still the way to go. Sorry for the thread hijack haha

33x12.5 is too big for zuk axles imo, you usually have to run big spacers and offset wheels to clear them. Lots of people get away with it though.

$350 is pretty cheap for Toyotas and they are basically bullet proof on 33s. I lucked out when I did mine and got some from an 81, which came with 4.37s. With the 6.4 gears it wasn't bad at all.

I would stay with 31s on the zuk axles, if you really want to step up to 33s go toyota. The main reason I'm trying to do the built zuk route is that I have so many parts for them (3 pairs of Sami axles, plus 3 track kick rears and 1 front. That and I'm kind of curious how strong they are :flipoff2:
 

woods

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Stock axles, 6.5s, rear mini-spool, 31" retreads = best year ever of wheeling

I beat the ever living SHIT out of my rig with that setup.And after every trip, it'd go on the trailer ready to go again. I was wheeling twice a week. Never let me down. It wasn't until I built some Toyota axles I fell into the hole of broken transfer cases, full hydro steering, rear disc swaps, and fucked up wheel studs. It was a never ending disaster.
 

JR4X

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Had this thing on built zuk's. 1.6 16V with a 4.16:1 t-case. Homemade Hybrid rear with stock Sammy shafts. 4.30 gears, spooled rear, lockright front with the trailtough double tough axles. CJ's/RUF on 32's with sidekick powersteering. The speedo was correct and it would cruise 80 in 5th gear. Tried 31's and 33's as well but this was at it's best. I didn't fit in it real well though so I didn't argue when the ex wanted to sell it.

Picture020-1.jpg

IMG_7429.jpg
 

Itschrisb

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33x12.5 is too big for zuk axles imo, you usually have to run big spacers and offset wheels to clear them. Lots of people get away with it though.

$350 is pretty cheap for Toyotas and they are basically bullet proof on 33s. I lucked out when I did mine and got some from an 81, which came with 4.37s. With the 6.4 gears it wasn't bad at all.

I would stay with 31s on the zuk axles, if you really want to step up to 33s go toyota. The main reason I'm trying to do the built zuk route is that I have so many parts for them (3 pairs of Sami axles, plus 3 track kick rears and 1 front. That and I'm kind of curious how strong they are :flipoff2:

Yeah i hear ya. im not exactly sure which route i want to go. I dont wanna get into a rabbit hole of always building and never enjoying it which is what is making me want to stay with the Samurai axles. I wouldnt mind the added width and parts availability that the toyota axles give you though. Plus my samurai axles a;lready has a rear spool.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Yeah i hear ya. im not exactly sure which route i want to go. I dont wanna get into a rabbit hole of always building and never enjoying it which is what is making me want to stay with the Samurai axles. I wouldnt mind the added width and parts availability that the toyota axles give you though. Plus my samurai axles a;lready has a rear spool.

I'd stay with 31s then.

Or go 33s and toyota axles. You can have a great little rig on Toyota axles and 33s. You can probably find some factory 4.30s, 4.37s or 4.56s and be pretty well geared for 33s. High steer is cheap, ect. Sami guys say they're heavy, but it's not like they really are, it's just anything is heavy compared to Sami axles.
 

Gwagensteve

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I'll play. I've been building and wheeling on suzuki based axles for many years, and built a number of cars running 35's with reasonable reliability. I'll be the first to admit we don't have high traction rock, I think our wheeling is closish to PNW trails - mud and rocks, very deep ruts and erosion. Anyway, basically, running Tracker front gears in the front, a solid pinion spacer and double toughs/RCV's with an ARB seems to be a set-and-forget deal. In the rear, I've built a bunch of tracker rear based Samurai axles, stock Samurai width, running Samurai front spindles, brakes and Grand Vitara drive flanges. Axles have been a blend of EN-26, HyTuff and 300M. We can break rear axles, but it's generally stupidity that does it. My car is a heavy pig and runs Krawlers and Walkers, so my wheel/tyre combo is well over 100lb a corner, G16B/AW-4/6.4/5.12. If I put the car on it's side and put the whole sidewall of the tire on the ground, I can take out an axle, but I have too much gearing and too much weight. the SWB cars are pretty good, and the future really looks to be class 10 off road race tyres (Like 35 10.5 KR2's) which are light and go on narrow rims, which helps enormously.

People generally think I'm/we're crazy for not going to toyota axles, but we like our small housings and narrow track width. going wider means we loose line choice, add weight, and loose ground clearance. My car is narrower between the inside of the tyres than a stock, narrow track SJ410. Sure toyota axles aren't heavy by Dana standards, but the housings and especially thirds are WAY heavier, as are brakes.

Aftermarket semifloat axles are garbage. Stock semifloat rear should be fine with light 32's unless your super abusive.

because I'm dumb and like building stuff, I'm stepping up to a tracker rear housing in the front, using my existing Gen V doubletoughs (with the inners made by CTM), but experience has shown it's not required.

I also have some other little tricks, but a lighter car with 32's wouldn't be required. (and boosted brakes - my SJ410 doesn't have a booster and I can't readily fit one)




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DirtRoads

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I also have some other little tricks, but a lighter car with 32's wouldn't be required. (and boosted brakes - my SJ410 doesn't have a booster and I can't readily fit one)


]

A lot of it is dependent on how you use the thing. I broke a stock rear shaft on 32's just barely letting the clutch out on a little rock garden. I don't know what I did to injure it beforehand, it was the first trail of the day :laughing:.

After going toyota and getting a few trips on it and dailying it almost every day, I have zero regrets.
 

Gwagensteve

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Do we have to persist with "I broke a stock axle with a 26" tire whilst I was parked at the mall you need toyota axles" responses? This might not be the thread for you. This isn't, as I read it, about the smallest tires you like running with toyota axles, it's about adding strength working within the restrictions of the Suzuki housings/parts. If you don't get why you'd want to do that, there's 506783506 other threads about Toyota swaps for you.

I'm surprised no one makes a kit to use bigger diameter shafts, 1" shafts with the 9" vitara 3rd seems silly.

Do you mean full float or semi float? semi float would be relatively easy, there are practical limits about how much spline can go through the carrier. There's some tech about using 28 spline H3 Hummer airlocker side gears to get more spline in a Tracker airlocker. I guess the wheel bearing could stay the same ID. I've recently found out there's two relevant styles of airlocker, H and J (I'm told) and that side gears can be swapped within, but not across series, which is why things like the H3 splines come up. I've also recently learned there's a small 30 spline Nissan axle - 1.29" that shares locker design with the Tracker airlocker.

I've broken a few stock semifloat axles, always associated with a bounce. My take on it is the bounce makes the axle bend whilst under torsional load and that's what takes them out - it's always the short side because they can't flex/twist as much as the long side to absorb spikes in torque.

For full float using Samurai/Tracker front spindles, it's more complicated as the spindle won't really clear a larger axle. I'm aware of a winch racing competitor in the UK who has lightly bored the spindle to go to a 27 spline axle, but I don't feel all that comfortable with that and don't think the effort is worth it for ~15% more strength, best case. Dana front spindles and hubs from Jeep/F150 are an option if you're starting from scratch, and I believe that's been done with the 28 spline H3 side gears.

I hesitate to mention this as the Toyota swap crew will lose their minds, but with a 1/8" spacer on the mounting flange face, (and redrilled pattern) it's possible to put a Toyota third member into a Tracker rear housing.
 

YotaAtieToo

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At some point it's hard to justify the Zook axles. Custom lockers, shafts, spindles, ect.

May as well just run a custom 9" at that point.
 

Gwagensteve

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Couple of reasons that's not feasible/desirable. Cost for 9" parts is exorbitant locally. The extremely low pinion is a loss for both clearance, driveshaft angle and horsepower absorbed, and the bulk of the 9" centre precludes it's use in the front in a Samurai with stock overall width and/or low ride height. We''ve mocked that up before and there's just not enough room around the chassis and between the (bigger, heavier) knuckle and the spring/chassis/centre. to keep anything even near stock ride height. If you look at my front housing it's notched for both the chassis and the sump to get the compression travel I want with the tracker housing - 9" dwarfs it. I have a shed full of tracker rear housings and centres Iv'e never paid a cent for, but a 9" centre and housing, even pulled from a 70's car which would still require R&P, locker, housing ends, axles etc is still $1.5-2K here. I agree that if 30/31 spline is inadequate a 9" might make sense (but locally, a H260 nissan patrol axle, which is close to free would be plenty) but up to that point there might well still be a case for a tracker centre/housing. Locally we have access to RJ70 land cruiser axles, which are pickup size but offset correctly for Samurai. They work well but I still dislike the semifloat, drum rear setup and its hard to get them into the front with a low car. It's been done, but it's not easy. The rear housings are also getting rare now, as the RJ70 was never popular here. As always, it's all about what/where you wheel, how far you're wiling to push street legality and what's available locally for sensible money.
 

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I wheeled a Samurai for many years.


I broke two stock rear long side axle shafts and one of the Trail Tough Double Tough long side front inner axles over the years of wheeling. It took a lot of abuse though over many years. It was also very light since I was VERY conscious of adding any unnecessary weight. I would run that setup again without worry.

Specs:
1.6 16v
Trail Tough Double Tough front axles
Welded rear
Lock Right front
6.5:1 TC gears
34" TSL's
 
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