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"built" zuk axles?

Nice. That's the sort of setup that's prevalent here for our local terrain, with a similar outcome from a drivetrain durability point of view. Interesting you were taking out long side axles - I don't think I've seen a broken stock long side, always short.
 
I'm glad that I started this thread, I was planning on aftermarket rear axle shafts, but it sounds like I'll probably be fine with stock. I'll do front rcv's and locker some day, open front is fine for now.
 
I’ve never heard anything good about aftermarket semifloat axles. Everything I’ve heard is they’re significantly weaker than stock.
 
Sounds like toyota ifs shafts.

Didn't low range used to use 4140 instead of 4340?

Now that tg bought them its probably just a "long field" shaft with a different sticker.
 
DannyK said:


I wheeled a Samurai for many years.


I broke two stock rear long side axle shafts and one of the Trail Tough Double Tough long side front inner axles over the years of wheeling. It took a lot of abuse though over many years. It was also very light since I was VERY conscious of adding any unnecessary weight. I would run that setup again without worry.

Specs:
1.6 16v
Trail Tough Double Tough front axles
Welded rear
Lock Right front
6.5:1 TC gears
34" TSL's
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build thread?
 
DannyK said:
It was also very light since I was VERY conscious of adding any unnecessary weight.
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Yet you're running steel wheels with huge rock rings and tsl's :flipoff2:​​​​​​

I've noticed rotating mass has a lot to do with axle durability too. I'd really like to find some 90s F150 factory alcoas. But my samurai wheels with cheap circle track beadlocks are decently light. The sxs tires are probably the biggest weight advantage though.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Yet you're running steel wheels with huge rock rings and tsl's :flipoff2:​​​​​​

I've noticed rotating mass has a lot to do with axle durability too. I'd really like to find some 90s F150 factory alcoas. But my samurai wheels with cheap circle track beadlocks are decently light. The sxs tires are probably the biggest weight advantage though.
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Heaviest thing on the rig, LOL, but cheap! I wanted to switch to aluminum wheels and some Stauns/IAL's to drop some weight and more importantly rotating mass like you pointed out, but never did. I tried to compensate for the wheels and tires by a lack of bumpers and sliders, LOL. I built that rig in 2007. If I still had it today, I would be tempted to try some SxS tires.
 
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DannyK said:
Heaviest thing on the rig, LOL, but cheap! I wanted to switch to aluminum wheels and some Stauns/IAL's to drop some weight and more importantly rotating mass like you pointed out, but never did. I tried to compensate for the wheels and tires by a lack of bumpers and sliders, LOL. I built that rig in 2007. If I still had it today, I would be tempted to try some SxS tires.
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I get it, just giving you shit.:flipoff2:

I'm not sure what those tsl's weigh, (edit: Google says 54 lbs, not as bad as I thought) but my 32 sxs tires are 36 lbs ea
​​and they are as tall as most truck 33s.
 
Dropping tire and wheel weight (and width, which increases leverage on axles and housings, bearings etc) makes a massive difference. I first saw the 35 10.5 Baja T/A KR2 in 2104 in Jimco's workshop and knew the moment I'd seen it that it would be an amazing Suzuki tire. A couple of years ago a mate from the club bought a set and we put them on beadlocked stock suzuki wheels. A stock wheel and tyre weighs 37.5lb, his Krawlers on steel beadlocked 15X8's were 110lb and the KR2/steel beadlock combination is 79lb. It's totally woken the car up. It rides better, feels like it has way more power, and there's been no loss of traction - they've been very impressive, even in mud, where they performed equally to fresh 34 10.5 LTB's. the owner anticipated swapped between his Krawlers and the KR2's depending on conditions but the Krawlers haven't gone back on the car since he's had the KR2's. The advantage of having construction and compound designed for something the weight and size of a Suzuki is pretty clear. I'm sure SXS tires would work really well too, especially where deeper mud is an issue.


_D4C4360-XL.jpg


IMG_4246-XL.jpg
 
Gwagensteve said:
Dropping tire and wheel weight (and width, which increases leverage on axles and housings, bearings etc) makes a massive difference. I first saw the 35 10.5 Baja T/A KR2 in 2104 in Jimco's workshop and knew the moment I'd seen it that it would be an amazing Suzuki tire. A couple of years ago a mate from the club bought a set and we put them on beadlocked stock suzuki wheels. A stock wheel and tyre weighs 37.5lb, his Krawlers on steel beadlocked 15X8's were 110lb and the KR2/steel beadlock combination is 79lb. It's totally woken the car up. It rides better, feels like it has way more power, and there's been no loss of traction - they've been very impressive, even in mud, where they performed equally to fresh 34 10.5 LTB's. the owner anticipated swapped between his Krawlers and the KR2's depending on conditions but the Krawlers haven't gone back on the car since he's had the KR2's. The advantage of having construction and compound designed for something the weight and size of a Suzuki is pretty clear. I'm sure SXS tires would work really well too, especially where deeper mud is an issue.
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Does aus have a sxs market?

There is a handful of 35x10-15 sxs tires available here for ~$200/ea. Not sure what's available down

I really wanted some kr2 stickies, but haven't seen a decent price on them yet.
 
There's not a large market here as SXS's aren't road legal and all vehicles used on public land need to be road legal. There is a national SXS race series on short courses, and they also compete in some long form offroad races. Generally though, they're not using the bigger sizes, typically around 30". Whilst KR2's aren't legal on the road (and neither are 35's on a Suzuki) being narrow and not especially aggressive looking, they fly under the radar. An SXS tyre won't. Local price on a KR2 35 10.5 is ~AU$400. I haven't seen any pop up second hand yet, but that might be a good source in the future
 
Itp coyote come in a 35x10-15, they don't look anymore aggressive than a krawler. System 3 xcr350 is another in that size and is considered almost an at.
 
I ran Sami axles with 5.38's, double toughs and a lockright in the front, stock shafts and a mini spool in the rear. Started off with 33x14x15 boggers on steel beadlocks. moved on to 33x12.50x15 radial mudders, and then to 34x10.50x15 LTB's on steel 15x8's with 2" backspace. I wasn't easy on it but I didn't thrash it. I never had any issues on the PNW (Tahyua, Evans creek, and Naches) trails I ran. H
sam1.jpg
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ad it about 8 years.
 
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Hey Folks! I had a Samurai with BFG 33x12.5's on stock axle shafts. 'Kick 5.12's with Lockrights front and rear; I also had 6:1 low range gears with really too much torque. I was kinda cheap with the build so for the front axles, I tried 'birfield rings' from Roadless gear. I ran through the Rubicon 4 times and a lot of other local trails and other events, never an issue with the front axles. In the rear, I changed to a modified bearing flange mount (SJ410 backing plate notched) that made for quick change rear axles (no back plate or brake removal required) and kept a set of stock axles prepared the same with me; used the passenger side one once-took about 20 minutes to change without really trying to be quick at it. This rig was kind of a starter wheeling rig, and sold it after I got my Tacoma up to speed--never should have sold it. Great thread guys!

-Mark

Sammi Barret Lake.jpg
 
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If you move forward with this, I would love to see more info on how the toyota axles and side gears compare to the sami and kick stuff. I have plans to build something very similar myself.
 
Sammie axles can definitely punch above their pay grade. I wheeled 31s, 33s and 35in swampers with good luck. Open front and only carnage was rear 3rds. It would lose preload on the pinion and roach bearings. But survived the abuse otherwise. I jumped to yotas but for a trail rig would have been better off on 33s and Sammie axles

Our club has several still on stockish axles. Lockers, chromoly front shafts and rear disks is about what anyone does. Stay to 33x10.50 tires if you play in the rocks. They could bounce up things I couldn't on 35s and yotas.
 
cchambers13 said:
Sammie axles can definitely punch above their pay grade. I wheeled 31s, 33s and 35in swampers with good luck. Open front and only carnage was rear 3rds. It would lose preload on the pinion and roach bearings. But survived the abuse otherwise. I jumped to yotas but for a trail rig would have been better off on 33s and Sammie axles

Our club has several still on stockish axles. Lockers, chromoly front shafts and rear disks is about what anyone does. Stay to 33x10.50 tires if you play in the rocks. They could bounce up things I couldn't on 35s and yotas.
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Good to know.

I ordered some rcv's through the Irate parts counter and a spartan locker.

It's getting these, so we'll see how it goes :laughing:
IMG_20201112_152324.jpg
 
Might want to spring for some solid pinion spacers too if you are tearing into the 3rds. They definitely make them way more durable. I've ruined many a Sami diff by crushing the crush sleeve by smacking my driveshaft on a rock. Last one I killed died by hitting trophy truck whoops at speed, it didn't like the unloading and loading over and over :laughing:
Solid spacer has kept the front together so far, I can't say on the rear as I'm going to Toyota axles on the next build stage
 
Alex said:
Might want to spring for some solid pinion spacers too if you are tearing into the 3rds. They definitely make them way more durable. I've ruined many a Sami diff by crushing the crush sleeve by smacking my driveshaft on a rock. Last one I killed died by hitting trophy truck whoops at speed, it didn't like the unloading and loading over and over :laughing:
Solid spacer has kept the front together so far, I can't say on the rear as I'm going to Toyota axles on the next build stage
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This is good advice. My thirds definitely held up better with a solid spacer
 
So what about r&p? I see you can actually buy 5.38s for samurai axles, are they worth a shit or are they as weak as they sound? :laughing:
 
Gwagensteve




Whats the best setup for r&p?

I see many mentions of broken axles, but nothing about what r&p holds up.

I'd like to go a little lower to take some stress of the tcase, drive shafts and leaf springs. Like I mentioned, I have 2 4.62 kick/vitara rear 3rds and a f&r vitara 4.88 set. I also have 3 pairs of 3.73 Sami 3rds......

Are 4.88s really any stronger than the aftermarket 5.xx?

These guys make 5.85s and 5.38s for Sami and vitara. No idea on cost by the time I get it to the US though.

http://www.4xfourart.com/kopyasi-sm-rear-ring-pinion-gear-5-

Should I just pony up for the rear hybrid housing from trail Tough and do the 4.88s?
 
Does top speed in high range matter, or is this strictly a crawler and looking for strongest setup? With 6.4's and the 2.0 +auto you shouldn't need to go very deep IMO.

A little off present topic, but you guys have been touching on SXS tires in this thread - what do you think about the low load ratings? Many of the 32-35" sizes seem to be in the 600-1200lb range @ max inflation. How that translates to real world, I don't know, but I have been wondering how the would hold up to a 2000-2500lb rig bouncing up a rocky trail. The higher rated ones that go on the bigger machines seem like a safe bet, but I really have no experience with them.
 
Paul said:
Does top speed in high range matter, or is this strictly a crawler and looking for strongest setup? With 6.4's and the 2.0 +auto you shouldn't need to go very deep IMO.

A little off present topic, but you guys have been touching on SXS tires in this thread - what do you think about the low load ratings? Many of the 32-35" sizes seem to be in the 600-1200lb range @ max inflation. How that translates to real world, I don't know, but I have been wondering how the would hold up to a 2000-2500lb rig bouncing up a rocky trail. The higher rated ones that go on the bigger machines seem like a safe bet, but I really have no experience with them.
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The 1.3/5spd ended up running OK, so it's still in there. Top speed isn't an issue. With the 4.16 case and 3.73s I don't think I've really even used 4th. Strongest over all possible I guess. I don't like having all the gearing in the tcase, puts a lot of stress on tcase out puts, drive shafts, and leaf springs. I think ~5.38s would would be sweet, but I don't know how strong the r&p itself would be. Plus they don't seem very cost effective.

I plan to keep the 4.16 case around, since they're easy to swap. It works perfect for 99% of what this rig is used for, especially if I had the 4.88s.

Those are just safety ratings. If they're good for a 2k lb sxs doing 80 mph over nasty terrain, I doubt you'll hurt them on a Sami. I even ran them on a fat 4 door 99 vitara at Fordyce in the wet. If that didn't pop one, I don't know what will.

It's not like it's a new thing, JR4X has been running them for years without any durability issues AFAIK.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Gwagensteve




Whats the best setup for r&p?

I see many mentions of broken axles, but nothing about what r&p holds up.

I'd like to go a little lower to take some stress of the tcase, drive shafts and leaf springs. Like I mentioned, I have 2 4.62 kick/vitara rear 3rds and a f&r vitara 4.88 set. I also have 3 pairs of 3.73 Sami 3rds......

Are 4.88s really any stronger than the aftermarket 5.xx?

These guys make 5.85s and 5.38s for Sami and vitara. No idea on cost by the time I get it to the US though.

http://www.4xfourart.com/kopyasi-sm-rear-ring-pinion-gear-5-

Should I just pony up for the rear hybrid housing from trail Tough and do the 4.88s?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen much R&P failure. Generally, what I've seen has been down to poor setup or aluminium thirds. I believe the aftermarket 4.57's are tough. The higher the ratio the smaller the pinion. There's been plenty of talk about those 4Xfourart gears but I don't know anyone who has run them, particularly on a Samurai. with the ease of sourcing 5.12 locally there's little market for higher. I've swapped back from 5.12 to 4.62 because 5.12 was too low. Rumour has it the 4.62 is weak but I'll guess I'll find out. If it was my car, I'd run the 4.88's with the bigger tracker rear centre in the rear. It's a much bigger R&P.
 
Gwagensteve said:
I haven't seen much R&P failure. Generally, what I've seen has been down to poor setup or aluminium thirds. I believe the aftermarket 4.57's are tough. The higher the ratio the smaller the pinion. There's been plenty of talk about those 4Xfourart gears but I don't know anyone who has run them, particularly on a Samurai. with the ease of sourcing 5.12 locally there's little market for higher. I've swapped back from 5.12 to 4.62 because 5.12 was too low. Rumour has it the 4.62 is weak but I'll guess I'll find out. If it was my car, I'd run the 4.88's with the bigger tracker rear centre in the rear. It's a much bigger R&P.
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All the 5.12 has dried up around here, I do know of a 1st gen rear 5.12 3rd, but no fronts. If there was aftermarket 5:12 or 5:13 I might go that route. But in reality it's not that much different from the 4. 88s, which are free to me. They were pretty common in the second gen trackers so even if I break a set I can find used sets on eBay for pretty cheap. Or I can go to the 4.62 3rds.

as usual I'm just overthinking my options:laughing:
 
So I spoke with Myron? At ZOR yesterday. They sell a hybrid rear housing that has no core charges and uses larger wheel (track kick) bearings. They also offer 28 spline axles and a custom spool that supposedly uses the same bearings.

For $350 for the housing, it seems like a no Brainer. I might try to chop up a kick rear housing myself since I have 3 of them. It's tempting to go 2-3" wider since my rear tracks are like 1/2" from my shackle. I was running 1" spacers in the rear withe the 32s anyway. If I stay with stock axles, I'd have to have a long side cut down and resplined.

He also claims to have good luck with the long field rear axles, but not the silver backs.
 
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So I chopped up/ruined a couple axle housings yesterday. :laughing:

I messed up and cut the 99 axle right at the welds. If I would have left 4-6" of tube, I'm pretty sure I could have slid the samurai tubes right in. Oh well, I have another 99 housing I can use.

That or I may try to just cut and sleeve the 1st gen track kick housing to get the bigger bearings.

The other thing I found was that the 2nd gen axle shafts are huge, like 1.5" all the way untill the get to the diff:homer: there is about 1.3" ID in the carrier but has some meat to be opened up. I think some 30 spline toyota or 31 spline Ford axles would easily fit with a little work.
 
If you shorten the axle from tracker to sami width, could you respline 2 long stock axles to 30sp yota or 31sp Ford?
 
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