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Building a mild 460 for bronco

ANGELO

Red Numb Skull
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
453
Messages
680
Loc
BRADENTON FL
So my 351m said enough is enough of the milkshake oil multiple times or the holding the rpms in the red zone far to long at tittie lane at redneck yacht club and it is now knocking. I thought it loved it but i guess not..:homer:

IMG_20200118_140244 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

vidya of the knock
PXL_20201109_161915629 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

So i picked up a 460 for it about a month ago.

PXL_20201116_225257201 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

I stripped it down today. Im looking for advice to build it. Im pretty sure its a low mile rv engine. it still has ford bearing, headgasket and cam. so im assuming the cross hatching is original.
Im planning gaskets, bearings, a cam, the weiland stealth intake it has now, fender exits. im thinking mad dog., and my quadrajunk carb thats on the modified.
Im not real sure on the rest. I want it to be reliable and run on regular gas. I want to build it for the most power I can get on affordable basic mods. I dont want to replace stuff just because.
At this level im sure my rods are fine. But my heads and pistons. Would it be worth it to change them? also what cam do you recommend?

PXL_20201211_155558667 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

PXL_20201211_153231207 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

PXL_20201211_153122175 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

PXL_20201211_153113502 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

PXL_20201211_153042812 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

PXL_20201211_152005329 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr

PXL_20201116_200718951 by Angelo Mehtala, on Flickr
 
i have a 1971 429 in my rig and been pretty happy with it power wise and its a very mild build. stock bottom end with d0ve heads that are stock as well, has an old torker2 intake and some amazon headers. for cam in running this https://www.compcams.com/xtreme-ener...d-429-460.html and it pulls pretty hard and comes in real nice around the 1500-1800 range and that seems to work well for my set up

edit just went back and seen you have mid 80s heads so will be low compression, try and find some older d0ve heads to bump the compression up to make some better power
 
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I could I
PXL_20201211_174316378.jpg
do higher compression pistons instead of heads?
 
Looks like you have E6TE castings

Quote from the mad porter on them.
"E6TE castings are the first year bbf fuel injection castings. Raised intake and exhaust ports. No carb intakes available and unique header flanges needed. The exhaust port is good but the intake ports are small and very high velocity for truck use / high torque."

My take is that these heads are for lower rpm use only, truck application. The carb intake ports should have not lined up and had gaps. What did you see?
Does mad dog sell EFI flange fenderwell headers?

If you do pistons you might as well do the whole short block. E6TE are about 95-100 cc chambers. Suggest sealed power H612P piston. cheap, 22cc to get 9:1. Zero deck to get 9.3:1, quench to gasket thickness (0.045). Fixing the quench will prevent pinning.
 
Looks like you have E6TE castings

Quote from the mad porter on them.
"E6TE castings are the first year bbf fuel injection castings. Raised intake and exhaust ports. No carb intakes available and unique header flanges needed. The exhaust port is good but the intake ports are small and very high velocity for truck use / high torque."

My take is that these heads are for lower rpm use only, truck application. The carb intake ports should have not lined up and had gaps. What did you see?
Does mad dog sell EFI flange fenderwell headers?

If you do pistons you might as well do the whole short block. E6TE are about 95-100 cc chambers. Suggest sealed power piston. cheap, 22cc to get 9:1. Zero deck to get 9.3:1, quench to gasket thickness (0.045). Fixing the quench will prevent pinning.

I couldn't really find much about these heads, but a few forums said carb motorhomes used these heads are are essentially d3s. Everything looked normal when bolted up.
 
Yes I read that too. Given the intake fitment I'm guessing you have the chassis-cab carb engine.
What is distance from piston crown to head surface at TDC?

What is your budget?

if below $4k then run short block and heads as is. Get a custom cam from PPAM (same price as others). straight up timing set. guess 300hp 400+ tq
 
Yes I read that too. Given the intake fitment I'm guessing you have the chassis-cab carb engine.
What is distance from piston crown to head surface at TDC?

What is your budget?

if below $4k then run short block and heads as is. Get a custom cam from PPAM (same price as others). straight up timing set. guess 300hp 400+ tq

ill have to measure it later.
yeah id say 4k is around my budget.
 
Yes I read that too. Given the intake fitment I'm guessing you have the chassis-cab carb engine.
What is distance from piston crown to head surface at TDC?

What is your budget?

if below $4k then run short block and heads as is. Get a custom cam from PPAM (same price as others). straight up timing set. guess 300hp 400+ tq

I'll second that. Give Scott at Parkland Performance Auto Machine a call and he'll get you straightened out with the most bang for your buck.
 
I have 1999 industrial 460. It came with dooe cobrajet carb intake and e6te heads. Casting in same place. Id suggest Measuring your valves, mine had smaller than stock exhaust valves and stock size intake valves.(2.08)
As these guys have said, the power in these is found in the heads, stock exhaust side is very restrictive. Youll have great luck with a mild port job and a mild cam. If you want rpm, more cam and more porting.

i began porting mine then upon realizing they were goong to have to go to the machine shop for larger valves i found a set of doves that had been ported for a good deal.

its all there on 460ford.com

photo36704.jpg
 
I guess i should add
ive built 3 460s and one 70 model 429 mild to wild

for a truck with big tires i really like cam grinds in the 218-225 range @50
for auto trans i would bump that up about 10

these guys are steering u right with the compression/quench and cam. Looks like you already have a performer rpm intake. I had great luck with them on two builds. And quadrajet bolts right on. I ran the 800 cfm version and it did great.

those exhaust valves look alot like my e6te heads. Smaller than stock 1.65” it was like 1.54 if i remember correctly? With the valve out ypu can see where the seat is hanging over into the port blocking flow
 
The exhaust valves measure to 1.50... how much will I gain spending the money for d3s or d0ves? I'm kinda leaking towards thowing it together with the heads and pistons I have now.

The pistons .020 from deck at tdc
 
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Also The trucks going to have 37s maybe 39s. Im putting in super duty axles in right after the swap. Probably 4.56 or 4.88. I still want to be able to drive around 65mph. And it has a c6.
 
God damn lost my reply twice so im going to post and edit

if you were happy with that 351m youll be happy with that 460 in stock trim
id guess 240hp but decent tq.

be a shame while you have it apart not to nearly double it. Especially in the mud. It would be worth a call to parkland auto. He may have some heads laying around etc. if i remember right he charges around 1200 for a decent port job.

good read-
https://www.460ford.com/threads/460-...-24-09.119213/

and
https://www.460ford.com/threads/cyli...1-7-09.114250/

example of decent port job, good quench and mild can
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi...&__tn__=%2B%3D
 
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2nd a call to scotty at PPAM (or another vendor). A 10 min conversation will go a long ways in understanding and setting goals.

0.020 down in the hole will yield quench at 0.065 to 70 thou which is not good. guessing stock CR is 8.5 or so.
 
I'm ready to start building this. PPAM said this about the heads.
We have both corrected procomp aluminum castings and iron budget ported castings available.
We will need your cores for the iron heads.

Aluminum PC heads $1,895 plus shipping. Hand blended bowls and good parts unlike the ebay and heads directly from speedmaster.
Cam and notched lifter kit is $359.95

Iron heads are $1795 exchange.

PC heads would require roller rockers.

Is the aluminum going to be worth it? It's 100 more plus the rockers. But after the shipping costs it's probably the same.
 
Oh and I figured out what the 460 is from. Based on the color and the almost zero wear. It was a Kohler generator. It's definitely oem honing on the cylinders and it has all oem bearings.

Should I run the oem bearings and oil pumps since they have almost no hours, or just replace it all with quality aftermarket.
 
If you plan to run stock pistons, I would run the bottom end as-is. As long as pistons/head provide the compression ratio needed, for the cam duration needed, for your power/rpm goal, your are good.

Some of the propane generator motors had factory flat top pistons that had more compression ratio. Your pics 'look' like a regular dish though, -12cc or so. Some genny motors had a small turbo to make peak torque at 1800 rpm.

You stated piston is down 0.020". Head volume is around 95 cc for iron and the PC. That puts your CR around 8.75:1. If head is decked a bit, 90 cc, your at 9:1.

At those low CRs I suggest you limit cam timing to around 213/227 which will get you to 425 hp/525 tq. The iron heads will support this fine with pedestals and stamped rockers.

So I think unless you replace pistons, the PC heads aren't going to benefit you. But if you plan to rebuild lower end later, then they would be worth the extra $400.

Once you go past the above cam/hp, you start to give up bottom end torque. So in some ways what you already have just gets you to the sweet spot for a heavy, big tired truck.

My $.02

Another option is to deck block 0.015 or so, that would solve quench and get you another 0.2 to 0.3 CR points. Don't have to machine whole block to keep cost down.
 
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If you plan to run stock pistons, I would run the bottom end as-is. As long as pistons/head provide the compression ratio needed, for the cam duration needed, for your power/rpm goal, your are good.

Some of the propane generator motors had factory flat top pistons that had more compression ratio. Your pics 'look' like a regular dish though, -12cc or so. Some genny motors had a small turbo to make peak torque at 1800 rpm.

You stated piston is down 0.020". Head volume is around 95 cc for iron and the PC. That puts your CR around 8.75:1. If head is decked a bit, 90 cc, your at 9:1.

At those low CRs I suggest you limit cam timing to around 213/227 which will get you to 425 hp/525 tq. The iron heads will support this fine with pedestals and stamped rockers.

So I think unless you replace pistons, the PC heads aren't going to benefit you. But if you plan to rebuild lower end later, then they would be worth the extra $400.

Once you go past the above cam/hp, you start to give up bottom end torque. So in some ways what you already have just gets you to the sweet spot for a heavy, big tired truck.

My $.02

Another option is to deck block 0.015 or so, that would solve quench and get you another 0.2 to 0.3 CR points. Don't have to machine whole block to keep cost down.

That's the cam he suggested. I'm not opposed to new pistons if they would be worth it.
the aluminums are 100 more plus roller rockers then his ported d3s. But I'm sure the aluminums have a cheaper shipping cost, and I'd only have to do that one way.
 
Roller rockers are about $300, so it's probably worth getting ship quote for both options.
Also may want to ask about porting/machine lead time. May be longer than you may think....

If you do new pistons, rings, really should bore block. At that point you might as well do decent rods and it snowballs from there. The PC heads may support a stroker better in the future, maybe ask Scotty is opinion on that. I think you will be quite happy with 425/525.
 
Roller rockers are about $300, so it's probably worth getting ship quote for both options.
Also may want to ask about porting/machine lead time. May be longer than you may think....

If you do new pistons, rings, really should bore block. At that point you might as well do decent rods and it snowballs from there. The PC heads may support a stroker better in the future, maybe ask Scotty is opinion on that. I think you will be quite happy with 425/525.

I think I decided on the lron heads. Since it has so few hours and still has the factor hone, I'm not taking it to machine shop.
 
So he has my heads. I want to assemble a short block while im waiting.
PPAM quoted me about 700$ for fel pro gaskets, freeze plugs, oil pump, efi pistons, moly rings, and cam, main and rod bearings.
does that sound decent or should i get it all separate?
 
The good thing about using Scotty is access to his knowledge and experience building them.
He specced and supplied the parts for my 521. It made 542 at the wheels.
 
The kit scotty specs is close to the kits at summit, BUT there are a few differences, such as the quality of rings and bearings.
Buy the kit from him, it will drop ship anyhow. Got mine in 2 days. Don't buy separate.

If shit goes sideways at least you used all the part he recommended. Summit cannot support you in the same way.

Why new pistons? flat tops? May want to check bore clearance if you have the tools.
 
The kit scotty specs is close to the kits at summit, BUT there are a few differences, such as the quality of rings and bearings.
Buy the kit from him, it will drop ship anyhow. Got mine in 2 days. Don't buy separate.

If shit goes sideways at least you used all the part he recommended. Summit cannot support you in the same way.

Why new pistons? flat tops? May want to check bore clearance if you have the tools.
No, I dont want to have to run premium gas so im going with the efi pistons.
 
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Good it will drink fuel like a drunken sailor.
I think you will be very happy with result. Take your time and don't cut corners. Yes even a budget build gets spendy.
 
The good thing about using Scotty is access to his knowledge and experience building them.
He specced and supplied the parts for my 521. It made 542 at the wheels.
I'm starting an efi 521 build. What's the specs on yours? Honestly that's waaaaaay more than I want, lol. I'm guessing aftermarket heads on yours.
 
I got a little carried away.
AFR 295 heads, mild solid roller from Scotty, 11.2:1 comp, Sniper EFI, 1.8 Jesel shaft mount rockers, 4 bolt CJ block, forged Eagle bottom end.
It is in a '69 Mustang with a 4 speed and Ger Vendor OD.
 
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A simple budget recipe I have done a few times is a comp 268h cam, weiand stealth intake, Holley 3310 and dove-c heads. Pulls hard from 2500 to 5500 rpm. The usual other things like true roller timing set, mv oil pump, perfect circle rings, flamethrower coil, etc of course.
 
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