Blue Jeep build

[gt1guy]

I'm serious.

Ain't got no dog in this fight, it's your car.

Just get the dang lokar setup, make a box around the filter to get your ram air intake if that makes you happy and move on.

Two pieces left to cut out and weld it all together and I'm done with the air box.

Plus a couple months ago I was starting to think it's about time to go back to work. I had been off for 7 months. Then a tree smashed through my shop. Insurance is covering the shop and the tree removal. Now I want to upgrade the lights I can get to which is half of them, or 20 - 4'ers with LED's.

Short version....I got other shit to buy before another manifold.

 

[gt1guy]

Have you ever stopped and asked yourself why you don't see cowl induction or air boxes on off road vehicles? It's either Donaldson canister setups or big ass air filters with pre-filters out in the open with rock guards around the front.

I'd be willing to bet money that your cowl induction setup nets you zero gain over just sticking a cone filter on the end of a 180° elbow off the TB in every use case except for possibly going down the highway. And even then I bet it so minimal due to air movement in the engine compartment it's not even noticeable.

I have stopped and asked myself about a lot of things I see on most off road vehicles. I own a JKU after all.

So most of the these fancy filters are in the line of roost/dust form the tires, yes? The fact that they need rock guards should be a big clue. Or mounted in the engine compartment back behind the radiator where the ever more powerful fans are literally sucking dirt/dust through a giant grill opening and blowing it towards the filter?

I see mounting the filter inside the tub as a good idea, but that has to be fucking loud. But in mine with the windows up, it would probably pull a vacuum and suck out all the cool ac.

On to the 180 with a cone filter.

First off, I'd wager that my 14"x8" filter could have more surface area than a lot of cone filters.

Second, there's only two choices for a cone filter above the manifold. (because due to the alt and ac compressor it would have to go directly over the top of the manifold) 1. Sticking up out of a flat hood, kinda like a snorkel without the snorkel part, (We'll call that a bad idea) 1a. My hood mold isn't flat. 2. It would have to sit under a bulge in the hood...and would suck only hot air and dirt/dust from the tight ass engine compartment.

Or I could do the 180 like you say, but, lets stick the filter in a box that's sealed off from the hot engine compartment and also sealed to the bulge. And then we'll cut a hole in the back of the bulge facing towards the windshield.
Now you're avoiding the hot engine compartment air, you're also avoiding the line of fire of dirt/rocks/mud/dust from the tires (no need for a rock guard). And because the opening is facing to the rear, when you driving at 10mph through a dusty area, it's not acting like a dust scoop.

We will now call this the Optimized Slowpoke filter friendly cold air intake™.

As I've said before, I'm not after HP gains, But sucking cooler air is better than sucking hot air. There is a reason that ECU's monitor IAT.

 

[gt1guy]

Got the crew here removing all the fucked up shop. Unwanted skylight is way bigger right now.

And it's supposed to rain tomorrow.

And of course it has been raining all day. Last night I covered what looked like it could get wet, then shut off the main breaker for the power.

 

[gt1guy]

The Optimized Slowpoke filter friendly cold air intake™ is starting to take shape now.

Side are tacked to the bottom section. Not going to weld those out until the lower half is tacked to the top half.

Both sides tacked

Bell mouth tacked in place. Just did 4 small tacks on the front side.

Backside of the bell mouth welded 90%.

Small area I couldn't fit the torch.

Black sharpy marks are about where the welds stop on the back side. Right now I'm Thinking about sticking the purge welding tube down in one side and let the area fill with argon. Then I should be able to stick the tungsten way out to reach in there and make that weld. I sill have the high temp tape I used for making the headers, so I could block most of it off to hold the argon.

I'll need to fill in that opening when it's all done too.

The test fit with the top section went good. I do have to remove the old mounts off the sides of the top.

Also need to fill in the cut out for the alt before I get the top in the way.

 

[Opiebennett]

High temp tape, tinfoil, purge wand and no air movement in the shop gets a lot of long stick out jobs done.

Can also get a tungsten really hot (like all the amps on a scrap piece) then bend the tip with some pliers while it's still red, to get it pointed where it needs to be if you're in that spot.

 

[gt1guy]

At least it's not windy outside right now.........I'm missing one wall and half the roof in the shop right now

 

[gt1guy]

Ended up taking the easy route. After having a closer look and realizing that blowing a hole down in there would be giant pain in the ass to fix. I just welded around the OD of the bell mouth. Now it doesn't matter if that few inches isn't welded.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I thought this test was pretty intersting. The whole series is cool, but watch this:



I clipped it at a decent time, but the results are at 23:30.

Basically, an LS3 swap in a beemer. They weren't getting the results expected on the dyno, so they rotated the intake and filter up 90 degrees to get cold air. Ended up picking up close to 40hp. I don't think this channel is one who would pull some BS, and thought it was pretty impressive. That is part of the reason I went through the work to get a cold air intake set up. Now I need to finish the filter box.

 

[gt1guy]

40 HP from simply not sucking hot air into the engine. And that wasn't even sucking free and clear from the engine compartment. They left a few HP on the table.

Almost seems like it would be worth the hassle to build a cold air intake.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[rattle_snake]

I went down cold air path on my 466 build. Wanted to pull air from cowl, leave hood flat. Running typical dual plane carb intake with Holley Sniper. A box could be built, gasketed to firewall/cowl somehow. I did some air temp tests to see how hot the fan wash under hood air really is under different conditions. Worst case is idle/not moving as expected, but IAT isn't important under this condition. Once moving even in typical traffic temps drop quickly. Cruising 65 MPH @ 3k RPM in 100 ambient showed IAT of only 112 or so. I couldn't justify the job for only 12* drop and it looks cleaner/period correct with just a typical round open element filter. I would guess HP difference would be 2-3%.

If I need more power I can just use nitrous system, which is a fantastic intake air charge cooler.

But you should continue box and perhaps complicate it a bit more so you have a fun challenge.

 

[gt1guy]

I went down cold air path on my 466 build. Wanted to pull air from cowl, leave hood flat. Running typical dual plane carb intake with Holley Sniper. A box could be built, gasketed to firewall/cowl somehow. I did some air temp tests to see how hot the fan wash under hood air really is under different conditions. Worst case is idle/not moving as expected, but IAT isn't important under this condition. Once moving even in typical traffic temps drop quickly. Cruising 65 MPH @ 3k RPM in 100 ambient showed IAT of only 112 or so. I couldn't justify the job for only 12* drop and it looks cleaner/period correct with just a typical round open element filter. I would guess HP difference would be 2-3%.

If I need more power I can just use nitrous system, which is a fantastic intake air charge cooler.

But you should continue box and perhaps complicate it a bit more so you have a fun challenge.

I have obviously have given up on the whole period correct thing a long tome ago. Except the front doors and windshield frame. Plus, unlike your rig, it never looked bitchen, even on the show room floor.
You got a 12* drop at 65mph @ 3k, what was it at 5mph @5k? It would probably be a bigger Delta.

But it really comes down to engine compartment size too. Yours is gigantic, I'd be willing to bet mine is tighter than that BMW in the video.

What would have made my life 1000% easier would have been finding a aluminum 5" oval 180* bend, bent the easy way. I never found one.

 

[rattle_snake]

Agree engine compartment size/obstructions make a big difference, and we have opposite conditions there. I can climb in and sit on right fender, you're entire jeep is a tight fit to say the least.

I have a 'Cold air intake' in fender of my 2004 cobra. In summer IAT1s are 130+ and post supercharger IAT2 is over 170*. This is 110+ ambient with ECT 230 or so ('normal' on the gauge), A/C blowing cold.

 

[Bebop]

I have been down this path for a 4500 racing the Ultra4 EU championship with a stroker 416.
Also helped with a GMPP 525 LS3 in order to do a similar setup.

I have dyno and real life data.

A basic box in front of the TB flows enough to get full vacuum on the 416.

We’re trying to find an advantage that doesn’t exist here.

 

[gt1guy]

I have been down this path for a 4500 racing the Ultra4 EU championship with a stroker 416.
Also helped with a GMPP 525 LS3 in order to do a similar setup.

I have dyno and real life data.

A basic box in front of the TB flows enough to get full vacuum on the 416.

We’re trying to find an advantage that doesn’t exist here.

Pictures please.
Did said TB on the 416 have anything in front of it? Obviously there had to be enough room for a box and I assume the filter was in said box?
Where was the radiator placed in said vehicle?

What did the LS3/525 put out at the wheels? Just out of curiosity.

 

[gt1guy]

Tacked the two sections together for a fitment check on the engine. I had made the notch for the alt just a square cut out. After that test fit I realized I could cut that square in half and cover it with an angled piece. So gained a tiny bit more volume in side the lower section.

I will have to break the three tacks on each side before the upper and lower halves can be welded together. The tops of the lower half are perfectly flat and straight. The welds on the bottom of the top section are ........we'll just say lumpy......and do create some gaps that would sick to fill. So a little lump sanding will need to take place

Then next up is the front section.

 

[gt1guy]

Woke up today and the guys are working on the shop. Got the side wall up and are working on the roof. I sure hope they can finish it today.
Hopefully my fucking around on the Jeep doesn't get it the workers way.................they may all end up with flash burns tonight, hopefully they're finished.

 

[gt1guy]

Shop is a shop again. All it took was a check for 18,461.00.

Now I need to replace the 20 missing old T5HO's in half the shop.

Just ordered a case of 25 of these.....

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[gt1guy]

The contraption fits. I was sure it would, but ya just never know till you do it.

 

[gt1guy]

I already told on myself in the "people are stupid" thread. Might as well do it again.

Needed to make a fill in piece, made a template, marked out the template on alum, walked to the band saw, then proceeded to fuck up by the time I realized my fuck up, I had already taken more than a few slices out of the piece I wanted to keep.

Got to love it when you get to just stand there, asking yourself why you just totally fucked yourself. No yelling, no throwing things.......just pure and utter disgust in yourself.

So I did it all over again keeping the piece I needed.


Here's that stupid piece welded on the upper section. Right now I'm leaving myself 1" from the air box to the shock x-member. The slip on distance for the silicon coupler at the TB is 1". So I need that to remove the air box.

Tomorrow I want to see if maybe having the silicon coupler on the TB and slip the bell mouth in it will let me cheat that 1" down a bit.

I have two different ideas I'm kicking around for the bottom part that wraps around the piece the bell mouth is attached to.

Idea 1. This would all depend if I could still remove the box. Red arrow is the 90* on the bottom floor of the box

Idea 2. This has kind of been my original thought. Same red arrow at 90* on the floor

 

[csutton7]

Progress is being made. Any idea how much time you have into this? Just curious, cuz it doesn't matter really, but sometimes you just want guys to know what it takes to do some of the crazy shit in a build!!

 

[gt1guy]

Progress is being made. Any idea how much time you have into this? Just curious, cuz it doesn't matter really, but sometimes you just want guys to know what it takes to do some of the crazy shit in a build!!

Hard to say. The top half went pretty quick. Hardest part was getting the 4" alum tube marked to cut it flush with the bottom of the original box............took a sharpie taped to piece of filler rod cause I couldn't get anywhere near it. Plus I made the box extra tall and had the hood on so I could use the hood/scoop to check fitment as I trimmed down the box.
I'd guess there was 24-30 hrs in that.

Then I spent weeks of bodywork on the hood. Starting with 3 gal of bondo and ending with Duracoat wet sanded out to 2000 grit. Then another couple weeks of work to pull a usable mold off the hood. So that hood mold is set to have the upper part of the air box in one specific spot.

Then the plan changed to what we have now. And that had to start with putting the engine/trans/tc back into the frame. The body back on, the engine cage back on and the radiator installed. So that's a bit of work all by itself.

We are way past the hundreds of hours point by now

 

[WaterH]

I did use 4 rivets today. Had to modify the gizmo that the air filter lid bolts down to. It had different length legs because of the way it sat. Basically had to beat it all flat, trim it up some and re-bend it to fit.

Don't have any pictures but the old version sat on top on the same piece as the filter. Then put a backing piece on the back side and riveted them together.

This time the filter lid mounts on the bottom side of the piece the filter sits on. Made new backing pieces that ran to the lid mount. Riveted everything together. except this time I was able to weld the backing pieces to the lid mount.

Before I set the rivets and welded the backing piece to the lid mount. But you get the idea. I could only get right up to the edge of the 3"8 ring since that's where the filter sits.

And since I know the busted off pieces of the anvils can and will sometimes fall out of the rivet body, I welded the ends of the splayed out rivet body shut. 1. because they would have access to get into the engine. 2. I know my luck.

First, you really should be using solid rivets. Second, if you absolutely don’t want to, get Cherrymax pop rivets. They do not have a piece that can fall out. They are crazy expensive though. Solid rivets are cheap and look so much more professional.

 

[gt1guy]

What is a solid rivet?

Assume Cherrymax is a brand?

I'm about to head down a rabbit hole, be back in a week

 

[gt1guy]

Ok, now I know what a solid rivet is.

If I had known about them and had the tool to squish them, that would have been a great place to use them.

The only other rivets I can think of, have been on the dzus fastener springs. There's probably 50 total dzus fasteners holding the grill, radiator sealing panels, top cover for the radiator, front inner fenders, all the dash panels/center console pieces and three access covers. All things that need to be removed.

I thought I was being fancy using SS rivets for the springs.

Actually I've kind of made it a point not to have rivets or even spot welds holding things together. I've used a lot of clecos to hold sheetmetal together, but have always welded everything 100%. Even the few factory spot welded seams left in the tub I have welded 100%. Bottom of the tub.....same thing. Increases the stiffness of the tub.

Plus the ac will stay inside where it belongs.....inside.

 

[gt1guy]

Do those CherryMax rivets need a fancy tool to pop them or can they be used in your standard hand popper?

 

[YJLOPES]

Do those CherryMax rivets need a fancy tool to pop them or can they be used in your standard hand popper?

A standard hand popper will pull them, but the stem is harder than hell, so it will wear the jaws over time I'm told. I pulled a bunch and mine is still going strong though. Most of what I've done is 1/8" though. Pulling the 5/32" and 3/16" gets proportionally harder.

In the airplane world I like them for certain applications. They have "oversize" rivets for holes that aren't perfect. You just drill them up .015-020" (can't remember offhand). The head still looks like a standard 1/8", so you can hide repairs a little.

 

[1Sinner]

We are way past the hundreds of hours point by now

I feel this deep in my soul. Just keep marching.

 

[gt1guy]

A standard hand popper will pull them, but the stem is harder than hell, so it will wear the jaws over time I'm told. I pulled a bunch and mine is still going strong though. Most of what I've done is 1/8" though. Pulling the 5/32" and 3/16" gets proportionally harder.

In the airplane world I like them for certain applications. They have "oversize" rivets for holes that aren't perfect. You just drill them up .015-020" (can't remember offhand). The head still looks like a standard 1/8", so you can hide repairs a little.

I may pick up a handful of 1/8" and 3/16" just to have on hand. Though there's about a billion different kinds.

 

[gt1guy]

We are way past the hundreds of hours point by now

I feel this deep in my soul. Just keep marching.

Especially when you're actually counting in years

 

[gt1guy]

Well we've finally made it to the part I've been dreading. The very front and the piece that wraps around the piece that the bell mouth sit in. The wraparound will be the easier of the two. Getting to that point is going to suck.

Right now to install the box the orange arrow on the right bottoms out on the shock x-member so the back of the bell mouth can clear the silicon connector with a slight gap. I had been mounting the silicon adapter on the bell mouth......and it would take about a minute of two to have it together.......that was great.
But after a little testing with the silicon coupler pre mounted on the TB, I was able to remove 1/4" of the silicon adapter..........At the price of taking 10 times longer to get it all lined up. 1/4" don't sound like much but it was at smart tradeoff.
Then I found why it was taking 10 times longer to install. The red arrow was hitting the back of the firewall

So the plan for that is to remove a 45* section out of the bottom half like so.....This will give some much needed up and back movement for the front.

This is why the up and back movement is so important. I'm trying to figure out how big/tall of a front cover i can shoe horn in the front.

I added these little 3" contraptions just to see if they'd make it past the shock x-member. They get about half way down before the hit.......that's when I found the back of the lower air box was hitting the firewall. My hope is the can get longer.

Also remeasured everything for sq/in of flow area. Still happy with the numbers.


Entire ares under the filter. The + means that I only measured up to where the cutout for the alt is.That cutout is at an angle, so there are maybe 1 or 2 more sq/ins in hiding in there.

This is where the bottom transitions down following the manifold to the TB. Smaller number is still under the flat part where the sit filter sits. Bigger number is under where I raised the front section of the upper box in front of the filter. This spot is also right at the 90* for the bell mouth.....you can see the number 16

This is my choke point. Since the airflow is basically doing a 90* turn, I measured the length of the 90* , then from where my finger to the same spot on the other side and then subtracted the area of the top of the closed of bell mouth. You can see that under my finger there's at least 3/8"that I can add to increase the volume of that area.
My hope is that that area can grow once the rear is trimmed. Even though that choke point right now is still the same as a 4.5" tube , I'd like to get it = to a 5" tube.