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Alec Baldwin Shot a Lady

realsquash said:
Do we still think he knew it was loaded and shot the woman on purpose? Seems like a stretch to me. Whatever.
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If he hadn't shot the director because he is an idiot, wouldn't he have just shot the next person he was actually supposed to point the gun at and pull the trigger?

Then he would be off the hook completely. Right?
 
WaterH said:
... I guess it was found on the set and was exculpatory evidence. Why was it exculpatory?
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The problem was live ammo was used to shoot cans during breaks AND Miss Hannah wasn't paying attention to whether they were duds or real which was her job to begin with. Did I get that right- :bounce:
 
CrustyJeep said:
You mean the armorer who's job it was to not put live rounds into a gun for use on a movie set, who did in fact put live rounds into a gun for use on a movie set? Yeah, why should she be held accountable? Dumbass.
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Was it determined she put the rounds in?

In any case, it’s everyone’s job to determine if the gun they are shooting is loaded.

realsquash said:
Do we still think he knew it was loaded and shot the woman on purpose? Seems like a stretch to me. Whatever.
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Definitely a stretch unless he’s sleeping with her. But that has nothing to do with shooting a loaded gun at someone.

bgaidan said:
Well....adding that fact that there shouldn't have been live ammo anywhere near the set to begin with.
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Why? I can think of any number of reasons to have live ammo on set. That’s like saying there should not have been gasoline anywhere near a set that a car was at. (That hit someone)
 
WaterH said:
In any case, it’s everyone’s job to determine if the gun they are shooting is loaded.
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Fun mental exercise: They've got those "shoot a machine gun!" businesses in Las Vegas. People pay a bunch of money to have someone help them shoot different guns. I had a rich friend reserve a special VIP session at one of those places for a bachelor party, of which I was a part. It was a weird experience because while you get to shoot stuff, they don't let you load any of the weapons, and when a magazine is empty, there will be a guy hovering over your shoulder who will snatch the weapon from your hands, quickly remove the old magazine and replace it with another one and chamber the first round for you if need be. It felt wrong to not have complete control over the whole thing, but I guess if someone doesn't know what they're doing, this is how they help with that.

In this case, a client is basically paying someone to be the gun expert so they can play with guns. If a patron of that business(who knows nothing about guns, but is paying to get to shoot them) accidentally shoots someone with a weapon they thought was not loaded, is it their fault? Or the fault of the business? If it's the businesses fault, how is that different when it comes to an actor or producer paying an armorer to setup weapons for a shoot?

Fun anecdote: when we first had a safety meeting at the beginning of the session, the lead guy asked "Who is going to be my problem guy here?". We all assumed he was asking which yahoo was going to try to use their tommy gun to write his name in craters in the wall of the range, so we of course all pointed to the bachelor who was vibrating with excitement. We didn't realize he was asking who didn't know how guns work, and we also didn't realize that we had one quiet dude in the back who actually didn't. I've never seen anyone whiskey throttle with a weapon before that, but this guy kept his finger on the trigger of an M249 as he fell over backwards from the recoil and managed to shoot their target retrieval system right off the ceiling while we all hit the deck. That was a hell of a thing.
 
WaterH said:
Was it determined she put the rounds in?
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It's documented that she didn't take the rounds out. It's documented that she didn't actually look at the rounds. Those facts are documented in that, if she'd have looked at the rounds, she would have known they were live, and she would have removed them.

She was the only person present who's actual fucking job it was to look at those rounds.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I can think of one case where it was. :flipoff2:
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This was the most fucked up thing ever , it’s caused immense harm to the industry :mad3:

The Brandon Lee thing was very different from this, even if the end result was the same. A loose bullet was stuck in the barrel from a different scene the day before. A half load blank sent it.

Still unacceptable and negligent but not playing with live ammunition negligence!
 
Firstram said:
I’ve been in the film biz for 40 years, live ammunition is never used on a set:shaking:
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How about a security guard? How about someone with a CC?

CrustyJeep said:
It's documented that she didn't take the rounds out. It's documented that she didn't actually look at the rounds. Those facts are documented in that, if she'd have looked at the rounds, she would have known they were live, and she would have removed them.

She was the only person present who's actual fucking job it was to look at those rounds.
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I would argue it’s always the guy who pulls the trigger’s job to know if he has live rounds.

When someone does a stunt with a car, I’m sure there’s an expert there for safety. So the sceen is a guy driving down a street full of people and into a cafe. The expert puts all fake people in the cafe so that nobody gets hit. So the actor drives down the street and hits some “real” person on the sidewalk on the way to the cafe. Would you say the expert was being paid to keep it safe? Can the actor say “I didn’t know the car would kill someone”? Just because you pay someone to insure safety doesn’t mean you can act recklessly without consequences.

There are standards for anybody handling a real gun. (Actors have been killed by blanks)

I just don’t understand you guys that think the movie industry is some kind of magical business that laws don’t apply. He recklessly shot that woman at best.
 
WaterH said:
How about a security guard? How about someone with a CC?



I would argue it’s always the guy who pulls the trigger’s job to know if he has live rounds.

When someone does a stunt with a car, I’m sure there’s an expert there for safety. So the sceen is a guy driving down a street full of people and into a cafe. The expert puts all fake people in the cafe so that nobody gets hit. So the actor drives down the street and hits some “real” person on the sidewalk on the way to the cafe. Would you say the expert was being paid to keep it safe? Can the actor say “I didn’t know the car would kill someone”? Just because you pay someone to insure safety doesn’t mean you can act recklessly without consequences.

There are standards for anybody handling a real gun. (Actors have been killed by blanks)

I just don’t understand you guys that think the movie industry is some kind of magical business that laws don’t apply. He recklessly shot that woman at best.
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Actors don't get trusted to drive when shooting a scene. They are also not expected to know anything about guns. They do get paid to point a gun at someone and pull a trigger on purpose and expect there will be zero real life consequences for it. Hence why there is an armorer involved.
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Sandy Johnson said:
It was a weird experience because while you get to shoot stuff, they don't let you load any of the weapons, and when a magazine is empty, there will be a guy hovering over your shoulder who will snatch the weapon from your hands, quickly remove the old magazine and replace it with another one and chamber the first round for you if need be. It felt wrong to not have complete control over the whole thing, but I guess if someone doesn't know what they're doing, this is how they help with that.
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This is how it’s done on set with a real Armorer. They can, and will, shut down filming if there’s something they don’t like!
 
Sandy Johnson said:
Actors don't get trusted to drive when shooting a scene. They are also not expected to know anything about guns. They do get paid to point a gun at someone and pull a trigger on purpose and expect there will be zero real life consequences for it. Hence why there is an armorer involved.
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Process cars and trailers are almost a thing of the past now too. More and more of the driving scenes are filmed on a stage, LED panels provide the background scenery as needed!
 
Firstram said:
This is how it’s done on set with a real Armorer. They can, and will, shut down filming if there’s something they don’t like!
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When I was shooting the tommy gun(first one they handed me), the dude put his hand on my shoulder until he figured out I wasn't going to have a problem with it.

I'm not homophobic, but trying to shoot while another dude lightly caresses your shoulder doesn't feel right.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
Fun mental exercise: They've got those "shoot a machine gun!" businesses in Las Vegas. People pay a bunch of money to have someone help them shoot different guns. I had a rich friend reserve a special VIP session at one of those places for a bachelor party, of which I was a part. It was a weird experience because while you get to shoot stuff, they don't let you load any of the weapons, and when a magazine is empty, there will be a guy hovering over your shoulder who will snatch the weapon from your hands, quickly remove the old magazine and replace it with another one and chamber the first round for you if need be. It felt wrong to not have complete control over the whole thing, but I guess if someone doesn't know what they're doing, this is how they help with that.

In this case, a client is basically paying someone to be the gun expert so they can play with guns. If a patron of that business(who knows nothing about guns, but is paying to get to shoot them) accidentally shoots someone with a weapon they thought was not loaded, is it their fault? Or the fault of the business? If it's the businesses fault, how is that different when it comes to an actor or producer paying an armorer to setup weapons for a shoot?

Fun anecdote: when we first had a safety meeting at the beginning of the session, the lead guy asked "Who is going to be my problem guy here?". We all assumed he was asking which yahoo was going to try to use their tommy gun to write his name in craters in the wall of the range, so we of course all pointed to the bachelor who was vibrating with excitement. We didn't realize he was asking who didn't know how guns work, and we also didn't realize that we had one quiet dude in the back who actually didn't. I've never seen anyone whiskey throttle with a weapon before that, but this guy kept his finger on the trigger of an M249 as he fell over backwards from the recoil and managed to shoot their target retrieval system right off the ceiling while we all hit the deck. That was a hell of a thing.
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At Arizona Last Stop on Hwy 93 outside of Las Vegas, they have a full auto shoot, and in 2014 a 9 year old tourist lost control of a mini Uzi and killed an employee.
 
Roc Doc said:
At Arizona Last Stop on Hwy 93 outside of Las Vegas, they have a full auto shoot, and in 2014 a 9 year old tourist lost control of a mini Uzi and killed an employee.
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Sounds about right. They don't do much in the way of any sort of prep before they will put a gun in your hands. I didn't think about it much because myself and my friends all knew enough about firearms that it wasn't an issue.... until I realized one of us actually didn't
 
Sandy Johnson said:
Sounds about right. They don't do much in the way of any sort of prep before they will put a gun in your hands. I didn't think about it much because myself and my friends all knew enough about firearms that it wasn't an issue.... until I realized one of us actually didn't
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When I teach a new shooter, especially in a semi-auto pistol, I'll put one round in the magazine, after some dry practice. They don't get a full mag till I'm confident they can control the weapon and have proper trigger discipline. Learned that a long time ago with a buddy's son, he double tapped and didn't mean to.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
When I was shooting the tommy gun(first one they handed me), the dude put his hand on my shoulder until he figured out I wasn't going to have a problem with it.
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The guy told me straight up that if I tried to turn around with the SAW that he would have to drop me. I said yes sir.

There was nobody else shooting it after me so he took a pic when I was done. :smokin:

I had some hair in 08::lmao:
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Sandy Johnson said:
Sounds about right. They don't do much in the way of any sort of prep before they will put a gun in your hands.
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There's a range here that has full auto stuff that I won't go to anymore just for that reason. Well, one of many anyway. Place hasn't had any maintenance done in years so it's dark and falling apart. It's also dirt cheap and in a shitty area so it attracts the crowd you'd expect. All the stall dividers have holes in them and they're all just plywood. Last time I went I got flagged twice by some young :mr-t:s who rented AKs and kept turning around to post for pictures with them. Range officer just kept half ass warning them after multiple events that could have gotten someone killed.
 
Firstram said:
Process cars and trailers are almost a thing of the past now too. More and more of the driving scenes are filmed on a stage, LED panels provide the background scenery as needed!
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It's real fucking obvious too. Every interior shot looks like a fucking shitty sitcom where they're clearly not bouncing around at all from any sort of road imperfections.
 
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