1972 F-250 2wd to 4wd build

[rattle_snake]

Some more info on steering issue. Initial fill only took one quart. jack front, lock to lock and so on. After engine break in reservoir was still full, then empty after test drive. So I was able to get another quart in by turning wheel slightly, but no assist, bubbles or noises. Took dogs to mailbox, as they have waited impatiently for over a year. No assist, reservoir full.

So it seems the pressure regulator is stuck and pressure to box is low or none. Plan to drain and remove outlet fitting to see is piston is stuck. I rebuild this pump myself, box was from j-yard. Pump has 0.050" shaft endplay, but there isn't really anything to prevent it.

Also has a bent pulley so need to source a new one. This causes the pump shaft to go in and out as it turns.

 

[evernoob]

lol how do you get into it, a parachute? That thing looks completely badass, great setup lift and tires.

Want video when you get the details sorted.

 

[Projectjunkie]

Bitchin truck


I'm still like 75% sure a chick in my hs class owned it

 

[FleshEater]

Man that looks good!

A fan shroud might make a lot of difference with cooling.

Those leaks just keep the underside undercoated...if only you had to worry about that!

 

[dignifiedWT]

Truck looks perfect. There's always gremlins to work out and I'm sure you'll have them solved in no time. Post some video!

 

['84 Bronco II]

Awesome! Nice to hear it is alive

 

[rattle_snake]

[video]https://photos.app.goo.gl/U2SHTNbYKrEcLLnk6[/video]


Google Photos

 

[dignifiedWT]

awwwww hell yeah. sounds great!

 

[rattle_snake]

Man that looks good!
A fan shroud might make a lot of difference with cooling.
Those leaks just keep the underside undercoated...if only you had to worry about that!

Custom sheet metal shroud is on the shit list. First need to lower and move motor back which will move fan location. I was hoping the new fan and clutch would move more air. It didn't do much for most of the break in then at the end it tightened up and made fan noises. Might monkey with spring thingy on the front of it.

Truck looks perfect. There's always gremlins to work out and I'm sure you'll have them solved in no time. Post some video!

Thanks. It's definitely more interesting and complicated when everything is new and unproven. Especially when systems are dependent on one another and you don't know what the fuck you have yet. I thought the clean plug was a wiped lifter or lobe, luckily the valvetrain is OK for now.

Just need to get it to steer, stop and run better.

Awesome! Nice to hear it is alive

Ya I needed to get some enjoyment out of it after so much time invested.

Looking forward to doing bumpers and other projects that are short and don't take it off the road for too long.

 

[rattle_snake]

Still pondering how one whole bank is so much hotter than the other. Given the dual plane manifold runner layout it's not a fuel distribution issue. Could be the whole intake gasket is leaking on all four runners on the underside.
If I plug PCV, and put my hand over oil fill, I get positive pressure from blow by, as rings are not fully seated yet. So may be hiding a vac leak. Perhaps the blow by introduced into the intake is the cuplrit.

But then there is the lone clean plug. So maybe just a vac leak on this one that makes it leaner than the others.

but the combo of the two don't make sense. Need to pull manifold and see what's happening. Need to block off EGR crossover anyhow.

 

[bobbywalter]

the wire to the clean plug ohmed out good? since you indicate the valve events are right its hard to figure how that plug stayed like that.

 

[bobbywalter]

assuming you ran the plug and seen it too was sparking....and not dead.

 

[evernoob]

Still pondering how one whole bank is so much hotter than the other. Given the dual plane manifold runner layout it's not a fuel distribution issue.

w.

Hmmm that's not what other people are saying. TBI needs single-plane intake, but the temperature discrepancy is front-to-back not bank to bank. Still. Crate companies offer dual-plane with TBI because those manifolds are probably cheaper in bulk.

Dual-plane has no purpose with TBI, it's to provide a less inconsistent vacuum signal to a carb. On TBI it's a net loss anyway, but can also create inconsistent cylinder temps.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread...-vs-dual-plane

[SUP]trying to participate in the thread as a web-wheeler [/SUP]

 

[FleshEater]

Dang that sounds good. Looks great, sounds great, definitely a nice build, man.

 

[rattle_snake]

Hmmm that's not what other people are saying. TBI needs single-plane intake, but the temperature discrepancy is front-to-back not bank to bank. Still. Crate companies offer dual-plane with TBI because those manifolds are probably cheaper in bulk.

Dual-plane has no purpose with TBI, it's to provide a less inconsistent vacuum signal to a carb. On TBI it's a net loss anyway, but can also create inconsistent cylinder temps.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread...-vs-dual-plane

[SUP]trying to participate in the thread as a web-wheeler [/SUP]

Interesting info, thanks for sharing Mr. Web wheeler.
I'm running a Jomar powercone spacer that allows the 2 planes to connect somewhat. I guess trying a completely open spacer is easy enough. Have to ask my engine guy about this. He knows I'm running the Holley EFI on this manifold.
Wasn't sure how to get nitrous bars into this spacer so there may be an upside.

My point was that each 'plane' of the dual plane intake feeds 2 cylinders on each bank. In the case of the perf 460, the right/upper plane feeds 1,4,5,6 and left/lower feeds 2,3,5,8.
So of one plane's AFR is off, you should see 2 cylinders on each bank as lean or rich. The plugs don't show this behavior though.

But it is possible that the EFI /dual plane manifold has interactions that cause bad behavior.

Edit: after looking through more threads on holley forum, it's a mixed bag.

 

[evernoob]

Interesting info, thanks for sharing Mr. Web wheeler

My point is that each 'plane' of the dual plane intake feeds 2 cylinders on each bank. In the case of the perf 460, the right/upper plane feeds 1,4,5,6 and left/lower feeds 2,3,5,8.
So of one plane's AFR is off, you would see 2 cylinders on each bank as lean or rich. The plugs don't show this behavior though.

I'm running a Jomar powercone spacer that allows the 2 planes to connect somewhat. I guess trying a completely open spacer is easy enough. Have to ask my engine guy about this. He knows I'm running the Holley EFI on this manifold....

Yeah the temp was front to back on a link I can't find, as you describe. I threw it out there b/c... well it's a discussion board.

The plenum wall was determined to be one of the problems. This was even seen on setups with a partial opening between the sides. Still though a dual-plane can't do anything for a TBI setup and can only take away. Shorter straighter runners don't hurt low end torque or response, probably improves it. Less air column to be elastic, and elastic is exactly what you want on a dual-plane. Those only seem snappier and better on low-end torque with a carb because they're making up for so much deficiency. You don't need to provide a smooth signal to the venturi because the injector is under pressure.

So even though the temp difference should be front to back, it's not just the runner route that is the problem but also inconsistent vacuum under the TBI or between the sides. Could that cause a bank to bank issue? Stranger things have happened.

Holley recommends single-plane for TBI setups. Victor Jr. ftw.

 

[rattle_snake]

the wire to the clean plug ohmed out good? since you indicate the valve events are right its hard to figure how that plug stayed like that.

Yes #2 plug (clean one) has spark and can tell it's firing if you put wire back on the plug (cylinder contribution test).

Yes I agree I don't know what is going on here...

 

[rattle_snake]

Holley recommends single-plane for TBI setups. Victor Jr. ftw.

Holley doesn't recommend a single plane or prohibit a dual. There are Holley forum users who do, and improved their setup with a single or spacer. Its a mixed bag, lots of different engine types and manifold combinations, subjective results, opinions and so on.

Victor Jr has much larger runners compared the Performer, and is not as well matched to my combo and application. 1st step is work with what I have. I can mill out the divider if needed.

 

[rattle_snake]

I tried the open plenum spacer. It's no different. won't stay running at idle. Not sure why, may need to datalog. Appears to die when it goes into learn mode but need more info.

Drives ok of idle but may die on return to idle, but no vacuum for brakes anyhow, no power steering. Make cool noises though.

Ordered a manifold gasket set, will pull intake and see what's going on under there, block off cross over.

 

[Levigarrett76]

She sounds healthy
awesome work pushing thru the last 10% and getting her moving

 

[Gravy]

I think all the sbc tbi intakes are duel plane from the factory.

 

[rattle_snake]

She sounds healthy
awesome work pushing thru the last 10% and getting her moving

Yes not going to sneak up on anyone with it. Needs more muffler.
The last 10% seems to stay at 10% for a long time.

I think all the sbc tbi intakes are duel plane from the factory.

Interesting thanks for sharing.

I pulled the outlet hose and fitting on the PS pump and the regulator piston was free to move. So regulator portion appears OK. There is a screen on the piston nut that was clogged up pretty good when I first opened it up. I cleaned it best I could during rebuild. Not sure if it is related to current issue of no pressure. Assuming it is the bypass path but not sure.
So I pulled the pump off to look into further on the bench. I replaced the shaft seal so maybe I reassembled the pump incorrectly. From the wear markings it appeared to only go together one way...

 

[rattle_snake]

I decided to pull intake to reseal with improved technique and block off exhaust cross over passage. All wiring unplugged and things came apart nicely.

Unfortunately while setting the block off plate in with RTV it slipped and fell into the adjacent intake runner, which just happened to have valve open.

Eventually bumped it into cylinder with magnet, so head had to come off. Poo.
Instead of being pissed and throwing tools I cracked open another beer and moved forward with head removal and ordered a gasket. Should have drained block first, but instead I made a big mess.

Some odd combustion signatures. Don't correlate with headers, plugs, or intake runners, but not broken in or running right at this point.

 

[dignifiedWT]

You have much more control than I would have had in that situation. Looking forward to updates.

 

[rattle_snake]

I went on a long tirade but had only myself to blame. Guess I'll be more careful next time.

Head is back on and after working till midnight I'm back to where I was 3 days ago. Had my 11 yr old daughter run the engine hoist as the head is 70 lbs and I'm not young enough to be stupid enough to manhandle it in there anymore. Somehow this truck got really tall and need a MF stool to work on anything...

Moved truck to the other side of shop and forgot PS lines were open. Made a big fucking mess of AFT everywhere.

 

[rattle_snake]

After head debacle I got intake manifold install complete with exhaust cross over plugs. I learned a few things and got motor sealed up better than before. Rear china wall didn't have enough RTV, 6 bolts needed thread sealant. Also one bell housing bolt goes into lifter valley. While head was off I ground the valve cover surface to bare metal. Got everything put back together and fired it up. Un hooked all vacuum lines and reconnected one at a time, even though everything is new. Seems to run better and is not dying at idle. I did switch distributor vac advance to ported but after some research I will try putting it back to manifold vacuum and check with timing light.
Vacuum levels and signature is similar to before.

Rant: I hate how to video's. I don't want to watch 5-15 min of fluff and random conversation just to know one detail of a project. I skipped through three videos on Saginaw PS rebuilds to see how eccentric ring goes in. One had it backwards, one correct, and the other claimed they didn't know which way it went. WTF...

Anyhow I convinced myself I had it right to begin with so put it back together the same. On fire up power steering is working, because shit self-heals.

Re-bleed the brakes and have improved braking but need to bed-in the pads. Now that it is behaving better can venture out farther onto main streets for speeds needed to bed brake pads.

So it goes, stops, and turns now. Finally.

Off idle power is awesome. The loose converter appears to hook just above 2000 rpm where motor is strong AF. Will light up the 40s no problem, with the 4.10s. I did some brief WOT, it's really loud and doesn't sound that good, but pulls front end up and hauls ass. Body torque roll can be controlled with right foot, it's a lot of fun to drive. The traction bar works well and power brake burnout is rock solid and smooth.

I figured street experience would not be that good with 4.10 gearing and 40s. So far I am impressed with the big torque and instant throttle response of this motor/converter combo. It's scooty and can get out of it's own way. Perhaps a re-gear isn't needs so soon, will see after some miles.
65 mph -> 2250 + TC slip ~ 2400-2500 rpm
75 mph -> 2600 + TC slip ~ 2700-2800 rpm

 

[dignifiedWT]

Sound like your gearing is perfect. I doubt you will spend much time "crawling" in this truck, and when you do the big block and 205 shouldn't have a problem. My truck probably has a similar torque curve to your 460. I kind of wish I had 4.10's instead of 5.38's for driving on the road.

 

[rattle_snake]

Put some more miles on the truck including brake pad bed-in. Seems to pull to right a bit at speed but overall drives OK at 50 mph. Did some more WOT, pulls good up to 5k, shifts good. Better acceleration than I though given the trucks weight and tire size. Will break a tire loose from a stop with only 25-30% throttle. Need to get rear end locked....

Put the distributor vac advance back to the manifold vacuum port. It behaves OK, cold start and drive. So it appears that something improved/changed after reseal of intake. Like before, once warm in park the idle surges slowly (~5 second period) as EFI and vac advance are interacting with one another. IAB controls idle RPM with vacuum, vac advance changes timing, hence idle RPM with vacuum. So a closed loop control system that is slightly unstable.

Next step is to venture out to a gas station and then emissions test to get registration.

Plan to rework exhaust for 2nd muffler then start on mounting brackets for the rear bumper.

I ordered another set of radius arm brackets from ballistic so I have them on hand when it is time to re-do front axle. In case they go under, or one of you go in there armed to get your missing order.

 

[rattle_snake]

Contemplating doing rear locker install myself. It has the limited slip diff and 4.10s I would like to retain the existing gear set and just install a Detroit carrier. Use existing bearings. I'm hoping this would minimize setup iterations and possibly avoid pinion shim change. Put in new carrier and start with shims like there were, go from there.

Does re-using gears make it that much easier or should I be lazy and pay someone?

I put a Detroit in a 9", reused 4.56 gears, and did not have to move pinion. Side adjusters made the rest easy.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Contemplating doing rear locker install myself. It has the limited slip diff and 4.10s I would like to retain the existing gear set and just install a Detroit carrier. Use existing bearings. I'm hoping this would minimize setup iterations and possibly avoid pinion shim change. Put in new carrier and start with shims like there were, go from there.

Does re-using gears make it that much easier or should I be lazy and pay someone?

I put a Detroit in a 9", reused 4.56 gears, and did not have to move pinion. Side adjusters made the rest easy.

The carrier swap really shouldn't change your pattern. I would put the new carrier in and run a pattern just to verify nothing is screwed up and party on. Even if you do need to screw with the pattern, it shouldn't be off by much at all unless something was screwed up prior to the carrier swap.

For what it costs to have a shop setup gears, you can usually burn up a gear set and buy another and still be money ahead.