1972 F-250 2wd to 4wd build

[rattle_snake]

After excessive deliberation, I choose a trans cooler. From advice of local AZ trans builder, I am using only a air-to-fluid cooler, and bypassing radiator loop. So sizing is questionable, but I know that a 6k pig with a non-lockup torque converter on 40s should make a lot of heat. I want this truck to be able to pull 7% grades in 110* heat at 65 mph, so I figured I would put in the biggest one that would fit.
I retrofitted a ford Powerstroke 6.0 trans cooler into my 7.3 I used to have. It's 26 rows instead of 10, and dropped trans temp 20+ degrees moving 18k+ GVW up the hills.
Popular swap so price is relatively low. I bought a OEM Ford unit from local Ford dealer for $180. Downside is the 1/2 barb fittings. Want AN fitting.
I still have the old 7.3 cooler with similar mounting so I knew the 6L would fit OK. The brackets would need mods.
This truck will get A/C so I mocked up the condenser to make sure I didn't screw myself later. Decided to put trans cooler behind condenser for plumbing reasons.

So I hacked up the new cooler. Cut on the steel portion to leave OEM rivets to aluminum tabs. Made some new tabs with 18 ga and tacked in place. Also turd polished the lower brackets to be symmetrical, when because. Some black paint to finish off.

Welded in some washers for lower mounts. Cut them in half and doubled up thickness to match core.

 

[rattle_snake]

Spent a lot of hours finishing up the front clip. Lots of little time consuming items.
Someone hacked a hole for a trans cooler in the grill support, so I felt compelled to repair it. Wasn't even really needed, guess they were too lazy to remove the grill. I made a patch with a bend to match the opening. Nice to have press die for this now.

Patch came out OK after some hammering and a beer.

Knocked out the section/stretch job on the left fender. Cut and weld blend is better than the other but the lip isn't quite straight....
The lower mount was torn of cab so fixed that too.

Ended up going a little further on the front valence than planned. I shortened the ends to match fender and rolled the edge. The acid from battery explosion had done some paint damage, so I went ahead and painted the whole piece. This required removing the marker lights. The acid got the studs pretty well and I broke one....

Sidebar: I have had 3 rusty bolts that I have had to deal with on this project now. Seems like a lot of rusty bolts for a not even 50 yr old truck. One bed bolt, one firewall bolt (with PITA floating/captive nut) and now this. Now I imagine there are guys out there is places like the 'rust belt' and soggy/salty marine climates that have dealt with some rust too, so I'm sure you are sympathetic for me.

So I ended up refurbing the lights. Welded in a new stud, removed over-spray from last sloppy paint job and painted the housings. Even though paint is a poor match to factory, at least fenders match valence.

I decided not to spend a bunch of time perfecting the grill at this time. Instead I fixed what was broken and took care of a few of the big dents. Every plastic clip is brittle or broken. The plastic inserts and support got hacked up for the botched trans cooler install. I got 5 screws in each one and called it a victory.

I spent some time on fit/finish/gaps. The truck has some OEM spacers, so I refurbed them and used under core support. The OEM bumper looks OK with fender/valence mods so will run it until I have time to do something else. Either mod if for a winch or make something from scratch to match the rear bumper.

So it's starting to look like a truck now with front clip on. Another big milestone but a long way to go still.

 

[72Pstroke]

Your truck is looking fantastic.
Sometime when you have chance, post a picture showing the front fender straight from the side. I have a similar issue I am trying to figure out, and I'm curious how it looks from the side.

 

[rattle_snake]

Thanks Pstroke.
Some pics out of it's cave

 

[72Pstroke]

Looking good!
I think you just helped me solve an issue I've been trying to figure out for a while.

 

[rattle_snake]

hacking a fender is often a solution.

 

[rattle_snake]

There’s hacking a fender, and then there is performing precise plastic surgery on a fender. What you did may fall somewhere in between, but it definitely leans towards the plastic surgery side

Yes, thanks, a hack attempting precise surgery.

It will get driven through the brush and smashed on a rock at some point. Plus, no need to park way out at the mall, although the bottom of the fender is above most car doors.

 

[rattle_snake]

-Warning - long technical rambling about minor detail.-

Got the trans cooler plumbing done. for now. I used 5/16 hard lines like factory so I could use the steel inverted flare fittings on trans. Couldn't find 3/8 IF (5/8-18) to 1/8 MPT in steel, bought some brass just in case. Planned to use 3/8 hose so found some 5/16 IF (1/2-20) to 3/8 barb. Then I bought the 6L cooler with 1/2 barb fittings. Ideally I would use AN fitting and braided -8 hose. Couldn't find a -5 to -8 adapter and didn't want to use 3+ fitting to get there. Can get -6 to -8. Also need a 90* bend...
Local Ace HW had 5/16 flare to 1/4 MPT 90* fitting and a 1/4 FPT to 1/2 barb. Amazing, local 2 fitting solution.
But I didn't want to use the 45* flare as it would be the only one on the whole truck and inconsistency bothers me. Summit had 5/16 IF to 1/4 MPT 90* and hose I needed so I ordered and it showed up in less than 20 hours. This at least gets me same termination in both ends.
Ideally I would swap out hard line to 3/8 so I could use -8 fittings, but the bends were tricky and time consuming even without the cab off the frame. Lines go in between the exhaust pipes and have many bends to optimize routing and distance from hot pipes. Would take a lot of time so I cut and flared the existing lines and moved on.
The elbow fitting had tight/no radius for flow. I didn't want to bend the end of the hard line so it could be removed without pulling radiator or exhaust. So I inspected the hole sizes compared to the 5/16 tubing ID. I hogged them out a bit to match, but offset was tight and short side radius couldn't be blended. The original bores were not full depth so some improvement but nothing like a proper 90* hose end...
So I ended up with this, which resembles something a teenager might construct for a specific purpose.

I want to cram a winch in front of radiator under valence so I kept lines tight. Hopefully an impact won't snap them off, but can't really plan for stuff like that, although the AN setup would be better....
Right after finishing up I had to get to core support bolts, glad I left some room.

I then farted around with a hose support for the long side. Could have spent another $100 on AN stuff and a bunch of time, but not sure there is any measurable benefit.

 

[rattle_snake]

I got a little careless with frame bend from welds on the steering box mount 2nd attempt. The bumper bolt holes were off a 1/2". So I lubed up my crusty old high lift jack and used it to persuade thing back to position. Couple easy pushes and back in line.

Although it has traveled a lot of miles, I have never used this jack, or needed to, in a off road situation in 20 years. I gave up lugging it around some time ago. It does work well for fencing, bending gate posts and other odd redneck jobs.
When I first got it I proudly mounted it on the custom front bumper I build for my 1977 bronco. I never used it and eventually realized I had put myself in with the wanabee offroader/poser crowd (aka Jeep), so it had to go someplace else.

 

[NORDFORD]

I love all of it. This is just a great damn build.

 

[FordTuff4x4]

Fantastic, beautiful work as always.

 

[rattle_snake]

I love all of it. This is just a great damn build.

Thanks, getting closer to driving it.

Fantastic, beautiful work as always.

It's my therapy.

 

[rattle_snake]

Finally got around to front shock reservoir mount. I wanted to get the inner fenders done before committing to a mounting scheme. Loosely copied Ruff Stuff's mount but used a piece of pipe that already had the right radius for the saddle.

Decided to mount directly to tower, simple weld-on with piece of 1" flat bar for spacing.

 

[rattle_snake]

Some better pics of shock reservoir mount

 

[rattle_snake]

Need some help from you knuckleheads for TC output flanges and driveshafts
TC is NP205 with 32 spline outputs. Going to run a 1350 shafts front and rear, double cardan on one end and slip yolk on the other. Front is about 32" long rear is 61".
1) For flanges, there are a few pilot sizes, and a few bolt circle diameters. Looks like typical ford pilot is 2" with 4.25 circle.
2) Hard to guess DS length w/o flanges. Should I get flanges and install them first before ordering shafts?
3) The front radius arms are about as long as the front shaft, so change in DS length should be minimal through travel. Rear is leafs with traction bar that forces pinion angle so will have more shaft length change. Is typical short splines OK or long/full spline slip needed?
4) Tube size. can get 2-4". 205 offset is low, so c6 pan is close. Guessing 3" would clear on front. Since rear is long, go larger diameter tubing, 3.5 or 4?

Who/Where to buy from?
AZ/PHX local shop recommendations?
What else to be aware of?

some flanges..

https://www.offroaddesign.com/1350-c...riveshaft.html
http://www.northwestfab.com/13001400...ilot_p_39.html
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Flang...3210/3313/3328 (half the price..)

output shaft seals are 1-7/8, but most flanges have 2-1/8 OD, so looks like I have to change seals...
what about the 'star washer' on outputs. Or just RTV the splines? Rebuild kit came with one washer.

for 1350, looks like Spicer 212024X is CV flange I need. 4.25" bolt circle, 2" pilot

 

[rattle_snake]

Made bump stop spacers for front suspension. The bumps compress so made the spacer 0.75 longer than projected full compression. Sch40 pipe and a few washers to keep it simple, may have to modify length.

Used lathe to reduce washer OD to get them to fit properly. Welded 3/8 USS washing inside of 7/8. I wanted a 3/8 hole on both ends so the spacers cannot move laterally on impact.

I had previous welded captive nuts in cross member to attach. This scheme looks kind of odd, I don't like how it looks but good enough for now, moving on to other items. Would rather have spacer or spacer+bump on axle.

 

[rattle_snake]

Decided to ream pitman arm and knuckles instead of over drilling and using sleeves. Started with removal of pitman arm, it was a pain as expected. Tightened puller to 110% and beat with BFH until it accelerated quickly off the sector shaft at me.
The high angle TRE on drag link needed deeper taper than the rest. Why not use the mill in background? Because hand drill is way quicker & easier and can't get knuckles in the mill. Key is lots of lube on all flutes at all times. Bough a socket for pitman arm nut and torqued back to 200+ ft*lb instead of guessing with BFW.

Knuckles were reamed in opposite direction for tie rod over configuration, so no existing taper to guide reamer. Went slow and observed the cut to keep aligned. Since GM TRE have larger minor and major diameters, the reverse ream operation didn't result in hour glass shape, but cut new taper almost all the way through.

After reaming was done I mocked up TRE and DOM. I had a left over that was perfect length for drag link. I checked for center of steering gear and found that pitman arm was not straight forward at 'center', so remnant was to short. Tacked ends on DOM, jacked up front end and checked fitment lock to lock before any final welding.

Tie rod and drag link complete

Tie rod clears diff cover with 1/2" to spare. The pitman arm needed to be centered as it takes the entire range of steering box (4 turns) to reach axle steering stops.

Track bar and drag link are almost the same length and angle, aka similar vertical and horizontal offsets. Bump steer should be minimal, have 4 track bar positions to try.

Had I not moved the steering box and track bar frame mount, results would not have been good at all. Some times you have to accept failure and try again.

Front end almost done. Need driveshaft. Maybe stabilizer/dampner, or just right to hydraulic ram.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Need some help from you knuckleheads for TC output flanges and driveshafts
TC is NP205 with 32 spline outputs. Going to run a 1350 shafts front and rear, double cardan on one end and slip yolk on the other. Front is about 32" long rear is 61".
1) For flanges, there are a few pilot sizes, and a few bolt circle diameters. Looks like typical ford pilot is 2" with 4.25 circle.
I can't really help you here, but if the flange fits the axle/T-case, you just need to buy the driveshaft flange ends that match the flanges on the T-case and axle.
2) Hard to guess DS length w/o flanges. Should I get flanges and install them first before ordering shafts?
Definitely install the flanges before taking measurements for driveshaft length.
3) The front radius arms are about as long as the front shaft, so change in DS length should be minimal through travel. Rear is leafs with traction bar that forces pinion angle so will have more shaft length change. Is typical short splines OK or long/full spline slip needed?
Really, the only way to know for sure is to measure for driveshaft length throughout travel (which is a bit tricky with leaves). Having too much slip isn't really an issue, so unless the cost difference is huge, you could just build the driveshafts with longer slip sections. You'll probably want a longer slip section for the leaves anyway since they can move around a lot (although you've mitigated this a bit with your traction bar).
4) Tube size. can get 2-4". 205 offset is low, so c6 pan is close. Guessing 3" would clear on front. Since rear is long, go larger diameter tubing, 3.5 or 4?
Larger diameter tube is better (especially for a long rear driveshaft in a heavy vehicle with a lot of torque) provided you don't have clearance concerns. Look at your Superduty for an idea of the size ball park you should probably aim for. If you really want you can calculate the torsional strength and critical speed requirements to help size the driveshaft. This may not pertain as much to your build, but for off road applications, especially with a long rear driveshaft like you will have, you would be well advised to use thicker wall tubing than what is typically used for driveshaft to avoid turning it into a pretzel if it comes into contact with a rock.

See my replies in red.

I have used Denny's Driveshafts in the past, but I am sure there are plenty of other good options out there. I have used a local shop to build some drivelines for me, and they do good work, but for the cost and relative simplicity of driveshafts, I'll probably just build my own from now on and just take them in to get them balanced.

 

[rattle_snake]

Thanks for feedback. I bought all my D60 parts from Denny's. Site says they are 8 weeks out on custom shafts, but you can get unassembled too.
The local shop I have used in past (ADS in Mesa) is pricey, 400 more than online vendors.

I ordered drive flanges today from Tom Woods and plan to get shafts from them at this time. They are a few buck under Denny's with 2 day lead time. Flanges need a 2-1/8" ID output seal and I put in 1-7/8 so have to swap them out.

 

[rattle_snake]

Went to junk yard to look at fan clutch setups. Need something compact, CW rotation and preferable 4 bolt attachment to water pump. After wandering around with the yard ghouls in 111 & humid, I found an 89 F250 w/ 460. Serpentine setup but all 460 water pumps are CW like crank. It's a 20" 5 blade, Al blades, steel hub.

Test fit revealed 1" from clutch to radiator, which is OK. Motor sits up higher than stock due to cross member location for max up-travel and lowest ride height. So blades are close to upper tank. Doable and may be able to shim and fart with placement of things. Could also use smaller fan or thinner radiator but avoiding those options.
Also checked fitment of A/C compressor, gets more complicated. blades will be very close to or hit comp clutch. Rock and a hard place. I'll deffer this debacle for now.

 

[TrikeKid]

Whats your distance from the front of the water pump to the rad? I'd like to put a clutch fan on my highboy with a 460 swap since my e-fan is starting to die but it's a pretty tight fit with the big rad and swap mounts.

 

[rattle_snake]

Whats your distance from the front of the water pump to the rad? I'd like to put a clutch fan on my highboy with a 460 swap since my e-fan is starting to die but it's a pretty tight fit with the big rad and swap mounts.

4.75" w/ super cooling radiator

 

[rattle_snake]

Received the drive flanges and new seals. Test fit and measured for shafts. I was worried my custom under-the-case cross member would hit the drive flange, but it clears fine, will see about the shaft itself soon enough.

Order the shafts today from Tom Woods. 1350 double cardan with non-greasable spicer joints. 3" tubing front, 3.5" rear. Thought I had a 1350 yolk on D60, turns out it is a 1330 big cap. So got a 1350 yolk for it so I don't have to fuck with a goofy dual size cap joint.

 

[rattle_snake]

So I got the 1350 yolk for my 94 Dana 60. Removed the old one. Not sure if it has a crush sleeve, or how tight to torque the nut. I've seen the following
- no CS, shims, 250 ft*lb
- CS, 160 and loctight
- CS, start over.

per advice from TW, I did #2. Yolk is 0.300" longer than the other I used to measure.

 

[rattle_snake]

I was able to install the front drive shaft, but I failed to do basic engineering and due diligence regarding angles. I did the math on the rear and decided to run a double cardan given the angles, and just assumed that since that was already the plan on the front it would be OK.

Well it's not. I have onset of drive line bind at ride height. Angles are extreme, 26 at TC and 18 at pinion. There are a few things I can do to mitigate but the axle really needs the 'C's cut off and clocked about 8-10* to bring pinion up. This would require complete disassembly of axle and affects the position of all the brackets. Poo. Doable but a major pain.
The other option is to lower ride height and give up some up travel, and use limit straps to limit down travel. Coilover springs are already too long so I can't lower it any further at this time. I guess 'smaller' tires (38/39s) could be an option as I got these 40s used/cheap mainly for mock up purposes.

I set caster at 6*, so I can back that down to 4, and use a set of 2* ball joint sleeves to further move pinion up. This gets TC to 23 and pinion to 10* but only allows for 1.5" of down travel. Even if I lower ride height, down travel is limited.

Another option is a bluetooth front driveshaft like you see on Bro bling trucks at SEMA. A decent solution for the mall parking lot though.

Along those line the front shaft isn't needed to get motor started or first lap around the block so it's not really a blocking item. Just irritating and depressing, but that is how custom fab goes. Adapt and overcome.

The cross member does clear at ride height so it could be worse. May have to clearance at full droop.

ouch

There is also a horizontal offset that further eats into angles

 

[Gravy]

Can you clock the transfer case down to help or would it cause problems with the transmission? Could you lower the engine or lift the tcase to level the drivetrain?

 

[landen300]

I have similar issues on my rig if the front axle starts wrapping up under torque (leaf sprung) or if it droops too much.
First, that u-joint on the diff binds up, if it gets worse, the double cardan at the t-case binds.
I believe Tom Woods offers a u-joint with some offset you could try down at the diff,
And then you can disassemble your double cardan and do some grinding on the H-bar? Might get you by for a while.
Double cardan joints are rated for a ridiculously low amount of operation angle, something like "11 degrees" is proper, but I'm sure my front is in the 20's like yours.
If I keep it from binding, it does fine.

 

[rattle_snake]

Can you clock the transfer case down to help or would it cause problems with the transmission? Could you lower the engine or lift the tcase to level the drivetrain?

No not really, as the cross member goes under the TC front output shaft.
can't really go up with TC, I already notched cab floor support to get it to fit.
Same for lowering the whole thing. Pan is tight to engine cross member. Everything is tight everywhere.

Engine/trans/TC angle is 5* which is OK and good for the rear shaft.

 

[rattle_snake]

I have similar issues on my rig if the front axle starts wrapping up under torque (leaf sprung) or if it droops too much.
First, that u-joint on the diff binds up, if it gets worse, the double cardan at the t-case binds.
I believe Tom Woods offers a u-joint with some offset you could try down at the diff,
And then you can disassemble your double cardan and do some grinding on the H-bar? Might get you by for a while.
Double cardan joints are rated for a ridiculously low amount of operation angle, something like "11 degrees" is proper, but I'm sure my front is in the 20's like yours.
If I keep it from binding, it does fine.

I can raise pinion to deal with that end somewhat so I don't think an offset u joint is needed. It's the TC/double cardan end that is the bigger problem.
I call Tom Woods and they said I could grind, but the center ball on 1350 is also limited at about the same point/angle. I'm at 26* down and some to the left so approaching 30*

Going to get rear shaft in and see what surprises it has for me. Only other thing I can think of that will help with front shaft is Whiskey. How it goes with big tires and the lift to clear em, supposed to be a challenge, right?

 

[landen300]

I can raise pinion to deal with that end somewhat so I don't think an offset u joint is needed. It's the TC/double cardan end that is the bigger problem.

Copy that, I just figured it was worth a shot if you can't adjust things enough and had to go the route of getting your inner C's cut off and re-welded on.