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Vulcan 8 x 8

Muckin_Slusher said:
How long was "the whole time" ?

Must be pretty funny when you walk through the cord and unplug the vacuum, or the breaker traps back at the barn. :lmao:

I'd be set up to run vacuum, remove fitting, install temporary plug,..
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This time it was about two hours. Something’s don’t plug well. Or you have to get another fitting you don’t have. This thing has every kind of fitting I’ve ever seen. Pipe thread, straight pipe thread, SAE, JIC and another kind I don’t even know the name. There’s even some aluminum blocks that bolt up to another aluminum block with a o-ring. I guess to plug it, I need to make an aluminum block with no hole.
 
Cartercraft or any hydro expert, please read the following guess as to how the control system works.
WaterH said:
First, the motor.

IMG_1688.jpeg


You can see a small hose coming from the upper right. I believe this would supply pilot pressure to the electric valve. This valve sends the pilot pressure to one of the two steel lines to banjo bolts at the bottom of the pic. I assume one line will tilt the swash plate and the other brings it back to level. I also assume that when one line gets pressure, the other is bleeding back in the line to remove “case pressure”. (That line is not shown in this pic)

Now the pump.

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Here you see a steel line coming from center left at the bottom that goes to the center of two electric valves. I would think this line is pilot pressure and there is a large pilot pressure hose right below it. I’m thinking the electric valve sends pressure to one side or the other of the chunk of iron behind it. In that chunk, I assume, there is a piston hooked to the swash plate. Again, the side that is not getting pressure is draining off in the “case drain”. Basically, the electric valve(s) are just relays to the big piston.

Does it sound like I’m on the right track?

If I am, does it sound logical to some how force the swash on the pump or the motor to maximum angle and lock it? Then I can hook a manual valve to the other.
Click to expand...

You are on the right track, IMO
The steel lines on the motor likely work as you describe, that will be displacement control for the motor, high - low speed effectlively.

The steel line on the pump is the charge pressure connection to the electro-valve to control which will give you forward - reverse control of the servo.

IMO the motor stuff I would not bother with until I needed to.

The electric solenoids to the servo are likely fucked from water intrusion but I wouldn't rule them out until I tested them.
Making a simple PWM direction joystick should be easy enough.
 
WaterH said:
So a little more work. First I have to tell you this trick a friend told me. I was complaining that I have to drain 30 gallons of hydro fluid to work on some items because when I take them apart, fluid is leaking out by siphon. He told me to put a shop vac on the resivour.

IMG_1691.jpeg
:vader2:
I can’t believe how good this worked. I had almost no leakage. Of course you have to listen to the vacuum the whole time, but it was worth it.

Anyways I removed the electric valve thing on one of the main pumps.

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I was a little disappointed that the next piece that I thought I was going to remove was cast in to the pump housing. You can see it under the big hose here.

IMG_1693.jpeg


The electric part has a lever arm with a ball on the end. (The ball is on the far side here)

IMG_1694.jpeg


I took one of the actuators off.

IMG_1696.jpeg


When I put 24 volts on two of the spade connectors, the pin comes out about 1/4” with a lot of force.

IMG_1697.jpeg


The lever with tha ball on the end moves very little when the pin extends. Not really sure how this all works, but it appears I can just put 24 volts to one actuator or the other to tilt the swash. I didn’t try 12 volts. Do you suppose it would be less (or more) than the vehicle voltage? Have any of you heavy equipment guys ever seen a set up like this?
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That is standard stuff. That ball lever moves the servo pistons in the pump body. You should be able to swap that for a manual controller, or pilot hydraulic controller.

My suggestion was to change to a pilot control and use a joystick from a hydrostat heavy equipment, gives you one handed direction/speed control so you can hold a beer with the other :usa:
 
BUT all these alternate servo controls should be available used, etc.
Heres a cable operated unit. A GOOD hydraulic pump shop be able to be helpful here.
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WaterH said:
24 volt?
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Daisy chain them just like batteries. That's how they get more volts out of solar, more cells in a line. Definitely get the super cheap ones. IDK if a "smart" one with a controller controller would like that but the cheap ones are just dumb panels.

I guess you'll be spending $40 instead of $20 :laughing:
 
WaterH said:
This time it was about two hours. Something’s don’t plug well. Or you have to get another fitting you don’t have. This thing has every kind of fitting I’ve ever seen. Pipe thread, straight pipe thread, SAE, JIC and another kind I don’t even know the name. There’s even some aluminum blocks that bolt up to another aluminum block with a o-ring. I guess to plug it, I need to make an aluminum block with no hole.
Click to expand...
Not in the budget probably but these cap/plug kits are really nice for temporarily plugging ports you don't have steel caps/plugs for.

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arse_sidewards said:
I didn't realize the shit you linked was universal. It thought they were just plastic caps and plugs.
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Yeah they are just tapered plastic caps of various diameters. What's really nice is it is a complete assortment from 1/16" up to 3" or so.
Not saying it's a good price or anything but it is damn handy when doing what he's doing.
 
CarterKraft said:
Yeah they are just tapered plastic caps of various diameters. What's really nice is it is a complete assortment from 1/16" up to 3" or so.
Not saying it's a good price or anything but it is damn handy when doing what he's doing.
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Oh I can imagine. I'm probably gonna buy a set of the orange ribbed for her pleasure mini didlo cone ones. :laughing:
 
So got back on it today. First tried to lift motor on. Nope. Put it on a floor Jack and up into place. Still couldn’t get it to slide into the splines. I found a long bolt that matched the threads. Only one, but it should help line it up. I got to this point a realized I didn’t have any gasket.

IMG_1702.jpeg


The splines still weren’t lined up yet or I would have just run it. Since it wasn’t in yet, I pulled it apart and made a gasket. So here it is with gasket. I also overhauled the whole motor. (Wire brushed and painted)

IMG_1703.jpeg


I got all the fittings I ordered. I have a saying “if it ain’t for wrong fittings, I wouldn’t order fittings at all”. So I don’t have the ones I really need, but I dug though my boxes and got enough for a test run on the right side wheels. Since I didn’t want it to move, I wanted Jack stands to hold the wheels off the ground. I hoisted the rear up with the excavator and put a stand under. On the front, the excavator didn’t have enough balls.

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I finished with the floor Jack. My plan was to lift the wheels with the hydro cylinders. For some reason they wouldn’t work now. I was running out of light, so it will have to wait till tomorrow. I’m ready to see those wheels turn.
 
So this happened today.

IMG_1707.jpeg


May not look like much, but zoom in on the wheels.

With the diesel revved up, I counted about 40 revolutions per minute of the tire. My math is saying about 4 miles an hour. That is with the two speed gear box in high range. (I think) So I guess the front motor swash is nearly flat. I still haven’t done anything to try to control it. I did try to stop a tire with my hand. That was a not happening.

When I slowed the diesel, the tires stoped. This didn’t happen with motor on the ground. I assume the pilot pressure goes down and the parking brake locks. When I sped the diesel back up, tires immediately started turning again.

I really wanted to test the other side, but it was raining like shit.

IMG_1709.jpeg


I don’t really have the fittings to hook up the other side anyways. I should have them next week.
 
I was thinking about my earlier statement that the front motor swash was nearly flat. I think not. Since there’s no controlling the rear pump except on or off, it would be at the max angle when on. If the front motor was at a shallow angle, the wheels would be turning fast. So the front must be spring loaded to max angle. As you decrease the angle, the wheels would turn faster because it would take less fluid to turn one revolution.

Am I thinking correct?
 
Awesome
WaterH said:
I was thinking about my earlier statement that the front motor swash was nearly flat. I think not. Since there’s no controlling the rear pump except on or off, it would be at the max angle when on. If the front motor was at a shallow angle, the wheels would be turning fast. So the front must be spring loaded to max angle. As you decrease the angle, the wheels would turn faster because it would take less fluid to turn one revolution.

Am I thinking correct?
Click to expand...

As the bias at rest I have no idea, my brain doesn't work like that (trying to figure out things that I don't see benefit in)

But your statement about about nax displacement = minimum rpm and min displacement = max rpm is correct.

Obviously torque changes as does the RPM.
 
So another day, a little bit more light shed. I jacked up the other side. This turned out to be a major job as both of my floor jacks needed oil. My big Lincoln 4 ton was quite a job to put oil in. Once that was done, I jacked the front up. I know this thing is supposed to be 12,000#, but I just don’t see it being that heavy. I can say it was the hardest I’ve ever pushed on that Jack.

I rigged the brake on the left side and moved one of my actuator switches to the rear pump. Started it up and flipped the switch. And for the first time in 30 years, the wheels on that side turned on their own.

IMG_1713.jpeg


This time you can’t zoom in on the wheels because they were turning so slow. Obviously, the high/low range box was in low. I didn’t have the fittings to rig that up, so I’ll wait till next week. But they turned and there were no unusual noises. So that’s a win.

I talked to a guy down in Panama City that rebuilds alternators. I told him it was a military truck with a Hummer motor. He then went on to describe my alternator. He is confident he can test and fix it. I did a quick search on eBay and they want almost 2 grand for one of these alternators. I don’t have that much in this whole project. If he can’t fix it for laess that $200, I’ll be doing something else. Anyways, I removed the alternator.

IMG_1715.jpeg


Something weird here. If you look close, you see two belts driving the alternator and an additional groove on the crank and water pump. I don’t understand how you would tighten the belt that would go on there. There’s no other pulleys anywhere. Maybe they are for a power steering pump or something.

IMG_1714.jpeg
 
CarterKraft said:
You are on the right track, IMO
The steel lines on the motor likely work as you describe, that will be displacement control for the motor, high - low speed effectlively.
Click to expand...
On the motor, I’m trying to understand how I would control this. If I put pilot pressure to the one line and allow the other to drain, I assume the swash goes to one extreme. (Top speed) If I return to center (with an open center joystick), the pressure goes away and the truck stops. If I have a joystick valve and I want to stop the swash in the middle of that travel, how would I do that? Get a closed center joystick valve?

The problem I see with that is I don’t really want to push the joystick for a second and let it return to center and the truck keep moving at half speed. I want it to work like my excavator where I push the lever forward half way and I get half speed. If I let the lever return to center, it stops.
 
I've not kept up with this thread, but is speed supposed to be varied by the motors? Could be just motors shift from neutral angle and the pumps adjust speed, assuming that you have variable displacement pumps.
 
WaterH said:
On the motor, I’m trying to understand how I would control this. If I put pilot pressure to the one line and allow the other to drain, I assume the swash goes to one extreme. (Top speed) If I return to center (with an open center joystick), the pressure goes away and the truck stops. If I have a joystick valve and I want to stop the swash in the middle of that travel, how would I do that? Get a closed center joystick valve?

The problem I see with that is I don’t really want to push the joystick for a second and let it return to center and the truck keep moving at half speed. I want it to work like my excavator where I push the lever forward half way and I get half speed. If I let the lever return to center, it stops.
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That level of modulation is done in the pump not the motor. Motor is fixed speed for the given setting.
For the pump control you will need to modulate the voltage to the coils to get your variable speed.

There are MANY options on how to do this.
For now I would use a simple PWM driver hooked to the battery.


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Amazon.com

www.amazon.com
 
Dethmachinefab said:
I've not kept up with this thread, but is speed supposed to be varied by the motors? Could be just motors shift from neutral angle and the pumps adjust speed, assuming that you have variable displacement pumps.
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It would appear the pumps just switch direction and the motors control speed. I say this because when you put 24 volts to the forward selinoid, the pump is on. (Full volume) If you put 24 volts to the reverse selinoid, the pump is on in reverse. (Full volume)

I havnt done anything to the motors yet. (Waiting for fittings) the selinoids on the motors don’t do anything, so I’m planning on controlling them direct with some kind of valve.

Edit, also the motor seems to be at “full volume” At rest. So when I switch the pump on, the motors turn slow with tons of power.
 
CarterKraft said:
That level of modulation is done in the pump not the motor. Motor is fixed speed for the given setting.
For the pump control you will need to modulate the voltage to the coils to get your variable speed.

There are MANY options on how to do this.
For now I would use a simple PWM driver hooked to the battery.


1725993854496.png



Amazon.com

www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
That is interesting, but I don’t want to turn a knob for speed when I’m driving it. I would really like it to drive like an excavator. It would be nice to adjust it so both joysticks full forward would go straight. (My excavator turns just slightly) Not a big deal on a slow excavator, but I’m hoping this this is allot faster. The specs say it should do 45 easily.
 
WaterH said:
That is interesting, but I don’t want to turn a knob for speed when I’m driving it. I would really like it to drive like an excavator. It would be nice to adjust it so both joysticks full forward would go straight. (My excavator turns just slightly) Not a big deal on a slow excavator, but I’m hoping this this is allot faster. The specs say it should do 45 easily.
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All that is possible but will require changing to pilot operated pump controllers (my suggestion) or building the electronics required to have a joystick do it.
 
WaterH said:
That is interesting, but I don’t want to turn a knob for speed when I’m driving it. I would really like it to drive like an excavator. It would be nice to adjust it so both joysticks full forward would go straight. (My excavator turns just slightly) Not a big deal on a slow excavator, but I’m hoping this this is allot faster. The specs say it should do 45 easily.
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How good are you at electronics?

We're gonna need more nerds in here to help with this BUT my pea brain says this will be a start.

one of these for each side. $80
IMC404-Roboclaw 2x7A Motor Controller

One of these joysticks for each side $125-$250
aerialequipmentparts.com

Lift Joystick Controllers | Aerial Equipment Parts

Need a replacement joystick controller for your lift? See our full collection of joystick controllers including Genie, JLG and more at AEP's official site.
aerialequipmentparts.com aerialequipmentparts.com
 
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I might actually have a electronic Excavator foot control you can have, the actual foot control from a 305 Next Gen Excavator.
 
CarterKraft said:
How good are you at electronics?
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This is a “no go”. I’m not just “electronics dumb”, I’m anti-electronics. I want this to be EMP proof. To my knowledge, my excavator doesn’t have electronics involved with the track controls. Why do I need it with this?
 
I’m waiting for some parts, So I pulled a wheel to fix a flat tire and decided to check the swing arm a bit more.

Here you can see the drain and fill plugs on the arm.

IMG_1718.jpeg


I’m not sure if I should fill it with oil to the fill plug with the arm horizontal like it is now. That will take considerable more oil than if they are swung down at some angle. I pulled the fill plug and no oil came out. Then I pulled the drain plug just slightly. It started draining water. After a bit, it started draining oil. So I guess I need to go around and drain the water out of all of them.

These things were advertised to have central tire inflation. I wondered about that. So I pulled the center bolt and tried to blow air in it. Not happening. Stuck a rod in the hole and it went the whole way to the back of the swing arm. Got to looking back there and found a cap.

IMG_1717.jpeg


Pulled the cap and sure enough, that’s where the air comes out. I’m not really interested in in doing it, but kind of cool.

You can see the rotors are kind of pitted. Do you think the brakes will make them shine again? I don’t know where I can get these pads, but they don’t appear to be worn down to much. I’m not going to worry about brakes till I see how much I need them.
 
WaterH said:
This is a “no go”. I’m not just “electronics dumb”, I’m anti-electronics. I want this to be EMP proof. To my knowledge, my excavator doesn’t have electronics involved with the track controls. Why do I need it with this?
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Because you have electric solenoids on your hydrastat servo control.

I looked up some manual pump controllers (actual Morse cable) but they are wildly expensive from CAT, like $2200 each just got the controller.
 
Like this, it has an arm on the hex drive which is controlled by a Morse cable

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