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WaterH said:
Question, all this stuff is separated with about 1/16” gaskets. They spread tons of silicone on both sides of the gaskets also. I’m thinking of just bolting together with some “make a gasket” stuff. You don’t suppose they make this stuff with tight tolerances that a 1/16” is going to matter?
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The fact that they silicone'd the gaskets rather than just tossing the gaskets using straight sealant makes me think they might be necessary.

Can you not spend 10min fucking around with a 6" caliper to confirm it'll all fit?

Can you stuff something in there so you can see confirm there's clearance like using clay to check valve/piston clearance?

Or maybe stuff something of known length like 2" long and slide it together and measure the gap when it bottoms out and if you've got less than 1-15/16th or so call it good.

It would suck to roach an unobtanium part because something was just barely pressing on something.
 
Id think gaskets not required, usually pump/motor mating stuff is orings on the OD of the male pilot.

Id knock some out of gasket paper if you want gaskets, or anaerobic sealant if you don't.

RTV leads to a lot of problems in pumped oil systems. The cavities you are sealing are likely common to the final drive hub so you'll need to re-establish that oil level after reassembly or risk burning it all up when you get it running.
 
So I decided to make a gasket for the first section and got it ready for installation.

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Lifted it up in place, but could not get it in. Tried this several times. This sucker weighs about 80 lbs. and it’s hard to hold it up and try to get the gears to mesh. I brought the floor Jack out to hold it up so it would be easy.

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I worked it for several hours and still never got it in. It’s like the Sun gears are not turned right, but they have to be. I quit twice and went swimming to cool off. (No fear of frost bite today)

There comes a time where you just have to change tactics. So I pulled the box and looked at the end of the gear.

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I got a grinder out and made it look like this.

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I don’t know if that is radical, but when I tried it again, it was still not going. If some is not good, more is better, right. So I made it look like this.

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I tried it again and it wouldn’t go. It was threatening to rain and I was just about to give up when I gave it one more shot.

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I ain’t never pulling that thing off again.
 
If conditions permit I will hang shit from above and swing it in rather than use floor jacks and trans jacks every fuckin time.
 
Planetarys are fun, get a little slop in a gear and they are a bitch to get together. On the bench, spinning them usually makes them pop right in. In the field, we'll, you know how that goes.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
And now you know why heavy equipment mechanics have cranes on their service trucks. We ain't picking up shit like that by hand. :laughing:
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It’s funny, you look at a piece of machinery and you imagine how much it weighs. You pick it up and it’s like 40 lbs. heavier. I have a big battery in my truck that is bigger in size than that gearbox. How can it weigh more than lead? It maybe it’s just easier because there’s a handle on the battery. There is no way I’m getting the hydro motor back on with out a crane of sorts. (Probably excavator)
 
CarterKraft said:
I'm thinking that next piece is a parking, e-brake
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So have you seen these kind of brakes before?

IMG_1654.jpeg


How would they work? What I mean is, are they a spring loaded clutch or do they have some kind of gears that positively lock it from turning?
 
WaterH said:
So have you seen these kind of brakes before?

IMG_1654.jpeg


How would they work? What I mean is, are they a spring loaded clutch or do they have some kind of gears that positively lock it from turning?
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A stack of Bellville springs pushing on a piston that compress a stack clutch discs and plates. Wouldn't usually have speed sensors there they are usually mounted on the hydraulic drive motor.

edit:
This style brake is in your excavator swing motors and final drive motors. They are integrated in the motor these days but separate components used to be very common.
 
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CarterKraft said:
A stack of Bellville springs pushing on a piston that compress a stack clutch discs and plates. Wouldn't usually have speed sensors there they are usually mounted on the hydraulic drive motor.

edit:
This style brake is in your excavator swing motors and final drive motors. They are integrated in the motor these days but separate components used to be very common.
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The swing, final drive and winch brakes on our equipment are mounted on top of the reduction units. We don't use any hydro motors with brakes on them.


Edit: I have pictures of the brake assemblies somewhere on my phone but I can't find them at the moment...
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
The swing, final drive and winch brakes on our equipment are mounted on top of the reduction units. We don't use any hydro motors with brakes on them.


Edit: I have pictures of the brake assemblies somewhere on my phone but I can't find them at the moment...
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Yeah I was thinking about drill rigs, they seem to have separate units but (ours at least) are all built in to the motors.
I remember the Watson and LD rigs had external brakes but that's not as common on machines (at least) CAT machines.

Oddly enough I was looking at a 374 today that has a completely different style of swing drive that has brakes mounted to to the swing gear separate of the drive, but on the out of the planetary which is really odd.
 
Ok guys, another question. I’m assuming the the drive motor on the ground right now has the swash plate level. If that’s true, how hard should it be to turn the shaft? It’s very hard. I can’t turn it by hand at all. It did turn when I was pulling it off the stack.

Am I right to assume its level? I’m thinking it’s spring loaded to level.
 
WaterH said:
So have you seen these kind of brakes before?

IMG_1654.jpeg


How would they work? What I mean is, are they a spring loaded clutch or do they have some kind of gears that positively lock it from turning?
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The Deere loaders I worked on had a similar brake in the front driveshaft for a parking brake.

Like CarterKraft said, a whole lot of springs apply pressure to a wet brake disc (think like a motorcycle clutch) and a hydraulic circuit releases said pressure.

Rebuilt one in a 624K that had failed springs (wouldn't hold machine) because $1600 for new from Deere, or $200 in springs and a learning opportunity.
 
WaterH said:
Ok guys, another question. I’m assuming the the drive motor on the ground right now has the swash plate level. If that’s true, how hard should it be to turn the shaft? It’s very hard. I can’t turn it by hand at all. It did turn when I was pulling it off the stack.

Am I right to assume its level? I’m thinking it’s spring loaded to level.
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I wouldn't guess where the swash plate is at rest. The pump would be in neutral but the motor could be at 100% max angle or 0% minimum angle but still positive displacement. It's not something I'd really worry about.

If you want to check it out you could pop the head off and look it over but if you need orings, gaskets etc. they might be more difficult to identify.
 
Cartercraft or any hydro expert, please read the following guess as to how the control system works.

First, the motor.

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You can see a small hose coming from the upper right. I believe this would supply pilot pressure to the electric valve. This valve sends the pilot pressure to one of the two steel lines to banjo bolts at the bottom of the pic. I assume one line will tilt the swash plate and the other brings it back to level. I also assume that when one line gets pressure, the other is bleeding back in the line to remove “case pressure”. (That line is not shown in this pic)

Now the pump.

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Here you see a steel line coming from center left at the bottom that goes to the center of two electric valves. I would think this line is pilot pressure and there is a large pilot pressure hose right below it. I’m thinking the electric valve sends pressure to one side or the other of the chunk of iron behind it. In that chunk, I assume, there is a piston hooked to the swash plate. Again, the side that is not getting pressure is draining off in the “case drain”. Basically, the electric valve(s) are just relays to the big piston.

Does it sound like I’m on the right track?

If I am, does it sound logical to some how force the swash on the pump or the motor to maximum angle and lock it? Then I can hook a manual valve to the other.
 
WaterH said:
It’s funny, you look at a piece of machinery and you imagine how much it weighs. You pick it up and it’s like 40 lbs. heavier. I have a big battery in my truck that is bigger in size than that gearbox. How can it weigh more than lead? It maybe it’s just easier because there’s a handle on the battery. There is no way I’m getting the hydro motor back on with out a crane of sorts. (Probably excavator)
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If you saw how small 80lbs of SOLID lead was vrs how big sheeted/matted lead is you wouldnt think that.

1³ft of steel is 490lbs.
Whats the length/width/hieght on that motor?
 
Can you see the manifold anywhere in that thing where all the pilot lines branch out from? Pilot pressure is going to be much lower than main pump pressure. The pilots in our rigs run right around 550psi and our main pumps run at 4600psi. Pilots don't flow alot of fluid and don't require a large pump so ours are usually located on the engine side of the flywheel or in the pump bellhousing itself depending on the machine size and engine.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Take a picture further away at the pump. It looks like there is a pump piggy backed off of your main pump
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Here’s a differnt pic. The pilot pump is not really visible. It is below the to big pumps.

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SLOWPOKE693 said:
Can you see the manifold anywhere in that thing where all the pilot lines branch out from? Pilot pressure is going to be much lower than main pump pressure. The pilots in our rigs run right around 550psi and our main pumps run at 4600psi. Pilots don't flow alot of fluid and don't require a large pump so ours are usually located on the engine side of the flywheel or in the pump bellhousing itself depending on the machine size and engine.
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Here is the manifold for pilot pressure. It runs around 450 psi when I rev the motor.

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SLOWPOKE693 said:
My uncles father worked for a gold processing place and made my uncle solid lead race car weights in a gold bar mold and each bar weighted 45lbs.
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Lead and gold are super close. Hence how counterfeit gold bars are made of lead with a tiny bit of heavier shit in the middle (to result in the same overall density) and a skin of gold
 
So a little more work. First I have to tell you this trick a friend told me. I was complaining that I have to drain 30 gallons of hydro fluid to work on some items because when I take them apart, fluid is leaking out by siphon. He told me to put a shop vac on the resivour.

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:vader2:
I can’t believe how good this worked. I had almost no leakage. Of course you have to listen to the vacuum the whole time, but it was worth it.

Anyways I removed the electric valve thing on one of the main pumps.

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I was a little disappointed that the next piece that I thought I was going to remove was cast in to the pump housing. You can see it under the big hose here.

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The electric part has a lever arm with a ball on the end. (The ball is on the far side here)

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I took one of the actuators off.

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When I put 24 volts on two of the spade connectors, the pin comes out about 1/4” with a lot of force.

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The lever with tha ball on the end moves very little when the pin extends. Not really sure how this all works, but it appears I can just put 24 volts to one actuator or the other to tilt the swash. I didn’t try 12 volts. Do you suppose it would be less (or more) than the vehicle voltage? Have any of you heavy equipment guys ever seen a set up like this?
 
WaterH said:
So a little more work. First I have to tell you this trick a friend told me. I was complaining that I have to drain 30 gallons of hydro fluid to work on some items because when I take them apart, fluid is leaking out by siphon. He told me to put a shop vac on the resivour.

IMG_1691.jpeg
:vader2:
I can’t believe how good this worked. I had almost no leakage. Of course you have to listen to the vacuum the whole time, but it was worth it.

Anyways I removed the electric valve thing on one of the main pumps.

IMG_1692.jpeg


I was a little disappointed that the next piece that I thought I was going to remove was cast in to the pump housing. You can see it under the big hose here.

IMG_1693.jpeg


The electric part has a lever arm with a ball on the end. (The ball is on the far side here)

IMG_1694.jpeg


I took one of the actuators off.

IMG_1696.jpeg


When I put 24 volts on two of the spade connectors, the pin comes out about 1/4” with a lot of force.

IMG_1697.jpeg


The lever with tha ball on the end moves very little when the pin extends. Not really sure how this all works, but it appears I can just put 24 volts to one actuator or the other to tilt the swash. I didn’t try 12 volts. Do you suppose it would be less (or more) than the vehicle voltage? Have any of you heavy equipment guys ever seen a set up like this?
Click to expand...

I use the vacuum trick often at work instead of draining 150 gal of hydraulic fluid.

Those solenoids turn the pumps on.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
I use the vacuum trick often at work instead of draining 150 gal of hydraulic fluid.

Those solenoids turn the pumps on.
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So I guess when I put voltage to them, they tilt the swash to the maximum angle? I don’t know how long that takes, but if you stop giving it voltage, will it freeze at whatever angle it’s at? Or does it return to level? (No pumping)
 
Good day today.

I got sick of jump starting off the golf cart, so I put two used batteries in series in the proper location at the rear of the truck. Kind of long cable runs, but now it is a solid connection and they are fairly thick cables.

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I also made a crude bus bar to run some other wires off.

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The two switches hanging off the bus bar go to the selinoid son each side of the front pump.

I cranked the engine and it turns fast. When I use to jump it off the golf cart, I would use 5 batteries to get 30 volts. I figured it would start better. Now with the good connections, it turns just as fast with 24 volts.

It started pretty fast and ran good for a short time. (30 seconds) Then it started running rough. I was wondering if there was any water in the fuel, so I opened the pet cock on the fuel filter. (Right side in the pic) Out come a ton of water. I couldn’t believe it was running with all that water in that filter. I put my hand in the flow and it was definitely all water. I didn’t have a cup under it, but I sware it was more than enough to fill that whole filter, so what was it running on?

After the filter started flowing fuel, I shut the drain and reved the engine a few times. It started running much better. I reved it up and flipped one of the switches. When I looked at the motor in front lying on the grass, Woohoo!

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I guess you can’t tell in the pic, but the shaft is turning. I switched it back off and confirmed the shaft stopped turning. I turned it back on and slowed the diesel down. The shaft got real slow on the hydro motor. I’m not sure if that’s because the pilot pressure goes down or if just the main pump is slow, but it speeds right back up when I rev the diesel.

Next, I turned that switch off and turned the other one on. Sure enough the shaft turns the other way. The shaft doesn’t seem to turn all that fast even when I’m reving the diesel. I was tempted to grab the shaft and see if I could stop it. But I didn’t want broken wrist to ruin my good day.

I ve got some more hydro fittings coming and I expect to test turning the wheels on one side. (On Jack stands) Now I got to figure out how to get that motor back on the “stack”. The roof prevents me from a crane or the excavator. I can drag it around on the ground. Maybe I can get it off the ground, but I doubt I can line up the splines. I will figure out something. Maybe I’ll cut the roof off.

I have to say, today is the first time I feel confident I will get this moving under its own power.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Throw a Amazon solar float charger on there.

Questionable battery setups benefit greatly from them, especially on vehicles that sit.
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24 volt?

I will have to pull the batteries because I use them for fuel pumps on 55 gallon drums. I may have to buy dedicated batteries.

Are there places that rebuild alternators anymore? Would be nice to get this one working.
 
WaterH said:
So a little more work. First I have to tell you this trick a friend told me. I was complaining that I have to drain 30 gallons of hydro fluid to work on some items because when I take them apart, fluid is leaking out by siphon. He told me to put a shop vac on the resivour.

IMG_1691.jpeg
:vader2:
I can’t believe how good this worked. I had almost no leakage. Of course you have to listen to the vacuum the whole time, but it was worth it.
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How long was "the whole time" ?

Must be pretty funny when you walk through the cord and unplug the vacuum, or the breaker traps back at the barn. :lmao:

I'd be set up to run vacuum, remove fitting, install temporary plug,..
 
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