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The PAINT thread!

flecker said:
GT, what are you sanding? The tiny scratches I see in the pic is nothing that a decent primer wouldn't fill in.
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Just noticed this thread come back up and thought I'd follow up on where I ended up.


Started out with a hacked up narrowed stock hood that had zero support underneath, had been narrowed 16" in the front, a cowl scoop rivited to it, was paper thin and would have flapped in the breeze if I tried to run it. All I had was a shape.


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So that got covered in 3 gallons of bondo and sculpted into something that didn't look like Dr Frankenstein had a hand in it.


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Then the hood was pulled off the Jeep and the sanding began to get it smooth. This is where I stopped using bondo and started with glazing puddy or paste or whatever it's called.


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Once the shaping was finished and the surface was smooth, it got shot with Duratec surfacing primer and sanded out to 2000 grit. The Duratec is made for mold making. It's almost like a gelcoat.


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Once the surface was as smooth as I'm capable of, I added flanges around the perimeter and used molding clay to make fillets to remove the sharp edges. Also used the clay to fill in the bolt holes where the hood hinges go.


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Then the hood got a final cleaning, 6 coats of parting wax, 2 thin coats of PVA release agent and the shot with 2 coats of tooling gelcoat.

Didn't get any pictures of that process............was kind of busy.


After the gelcoat was still tacky but wouldn't stick to your finger, I started to lay up the fiberglass. Total of 20 layers with polyester molding resin.


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Added some pieces of 2x4 to give it some more strength and allow it to not rock around when it's upside down. When I was done, I mixed up a little resin with styrene and gave the whole thing a thin coat. The styrene floats to the surface and seals it from the air, allowing the the mold to fully cure.


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Let it sit for 24 hrs to cure and then popped the hood out of the new mold. It actually popped out with no issues. Wasn't expecting that as I've never done this before.


New mold. Very happy. Very surprised.


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The reason for the scoop is because it will actually be a functioning cowl induction intake. Air box will still need a bit of work to seal it off from the engine compartment once an actual hood is made.



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Question for those who know. I went to get the paint for the Ford. They know this is my first go and that it's going to be 87 degrees this weekend. I'm only doing the cab and doors this weekend.

They sell me the Acrylic Urethane, MR187 slow reducer and MH167 fast hardener.

Did they fuck up? Don't I want slow hardener as well? If not, why?

Also. They gave me this paper with limited informaton and poor spelling instead of the attached PDF that I found online.

I'm going to call them today and talk to the paint guy instead of the **** that sold me this stuff. (He was a **** for mutiple other reasons) If they don't have slow hardener, should i find a store that does?

Should I get the slow hardener (MH168) or 'very slow' (MH169)?

Also, MX194 Fisheye Eliminator. . yes or no?
 

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I am looking through some of that as well for a project I hope to do in the morning,

But I am doing basecoat clear coat.

Last time I tried to buy fish eye eliminator I was told, nobody uses that anymore. But I do have some just in case.
I didn't want to sound too stupid so I didn't ask it it wasn't needed because paint technology improved or if peoples prep work has gotten so much better.

I will say these paints suck. LOL 30 years ago it said on the can what it was for and what the temp ranges where. Now you have to google everything.

I would google the fast hardener and slow reducer, they may have the same temp ranges.
 
Reducer's... Ambient temp does play a role, but it's really about drying times. So in a good painting environment, say about 75-90*, with a low humidity (30% ish) I would use a slow reducer because it flows better. Ergo, once the paint is sprayed out it tends to lay down and flow evenly. IT WILL RUN EASIER... keep that in mind on the first coat, because the paint is really viscous. The only time I use medium is when it's much cooler. In the 60-70 temp range as it helps it dry somewhat quicker.

As for fast reducer's, only for touch ups. I want ir to dry quickly and I can sand and buff the next day to blend.

Fast hardener? Same concept. The drying times will be a bit quicker... sounds like the paint shop set you up with the typical combo, and they don't want you creating a buunch of runs. That's all. You could step down a notch to a medium hardener. I would definitely lay out a piece of metal or practice cardboard to get your gun pattern down and see how the paint reacts. First coat will be your tacky, lighter/ medium coat, then follow it up with two more medium wet coats. NOT to wet! That's how the runs happen. Nice even coats with the gun 5-6" off the surface (pending on pattern and gun).

To be honest, I won't always use reducers. Sometimes they aren't needed. In 90* though I would opt for a slow reducer. Depends on the mix sheet but the typical is 8:1. For 8 parts of paint it will have 1 part reducer. So 8 ounces of paint, 1 ounce of reducer. I always mix my acrylic urethanes first with the hardener, then add the reducer if needed. So whatever your ratio is... probably 4:1, then add reducer as needed. Just look at the data sheet and it will tell you.

Fish eye eliminator? Skip it... First, blow it off and then spend the time and first wipe it all down with terry cloth, then tack it off with a tack rag. Then go over it with a wax and grease remover, then straight up isopropyl alcohol. TWICE. Then a final pass with a tack cloth (open it up and let it breathe for a bit before use). Once you are CLEAN... shot it and relax, you won't have any fish eyes. DO NOT touch the surface at all after it's wiped. Go slow and don't worry about a dust nib, that can be fixed later. And don't lay down to thick to fast. You should wait at least 10 minutes (more with a slow reducer- say about 15 to 20) between coats, so you can avoid solvent pops. Solvent pops happen when you don't give enough time between coats (flash time).

Have fun! :grinpimp:

EDIT: Just read your spec sheet... nice choice of paint! (omni is great stuff!) So, yeah... 4:1 on the hardener and paint ratio. Then add maybe half to 1 ounce of reducer. Humidity is going to play a role also, especially back East. So if it's super humid add a touch less on the reducer. You will know when it's flowing really well. It's always so dry here in Az I typically add a touch more. I am thinking the shop probably balanced you out pretty well with a slow reducer/ fast hardener just based on the environment you are painting in. So you should be good to go mang!
 
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rattle_snake said:
my newb advice is not to paint anything hanging upside down (like a door). Take time to build racks or whatever for all the pieces.
:homer:

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That looks great. I wish I had that kind of room to work. Nice place. 👍The only way my shop would look like that is if I let my wife clean it. I wouldn't be able to find anything though.
 
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'Bing Bong' Assistance needed in the paint thread

. . . HALP!

Current plan is to flip the doors and, on Saturday, paint the cab and outsides of the doors. Sunday will be day 15 of my 14 day tape and I can remove the tape, Assemble and hang doors. cab lights and maybe some interior. Then, when it's weather tight, I can pull it out of the shop so I can have room to do the hood and fenders. . . After I put the tires on.

Overthinking. . . I know it would be better to paint everything in the same go. How bad is it not to?

Plan 'B' . ..
shoot the door jambs on Friday, hang the doors on Saturday so I can spray the doors and cab as one unit, resand and fix up overspray and stuff. Put the fenders where the doors are. Put the hood on the frame of the truck where the box should be. prep the fenders and hood (they're already in primer but not 320'd out.) clean everything and paint the cab/doors, fenders and hood all in the same day. my 14 day tape will be at day 22 or 29 by the time I'm shooting stuff.

Stop me!

Plan your dive. Dive your plan.

.
 
14 day tape? Whatcha gettin at here?

It's fine to not paint EVERYTHING in one go... just plan on some line/ overspray correction after that. Happens all the time with oddball stuff like tailgates on a rack or doors.

I would personally hang em, in an oriented way that makes sense and shoot them in one shot. That's not always possible though, so one side gets paint laid on and then flipped to shooy the other side. That's fine. They get cured, then laid over and taped off and shot on the side that still needs paint. Not a crisis. Just protect the "done" side by laying it on something soft like blankets or old towels on a sturdy stand/ rack.

"Safe to tape" on the data/ spec sheet refers to the time it's safe to tape off... that isn't typically 2 weeks time. Usually it's a couple of days after the paint has cured. Is that what you are referring to? I've taped off certain areas on a paint job after just 24 hours.
 
flecker said:
14 day tape? Whatcha gettin at here?

It's fine to not paint EVERYTHING in one go... just plan on some line/ overspray correction after that. Happens all the time with oddball stuff like tailgates on a rack or doors.

I would personally hang em, in an oriented way that makes sense and shoot them in one shot. That's not always possible though, so one side gets paint laid on and then flipped to shooy the other side. That's fine. They get cured, then laid over and taped off and shot on the side that still needs paint. Not a crisis. Just protect the "done" side by laying it on something soft like blankets or old towels on a sturdy stand/ rack.

"Safe to tape" on the data/ spec sheet refers to the time it's safe to tape off... that isn't typically 2 weeks time. Usually it's a couple of days after the paint has cured. Is that what you are referring to? I've taped off certain areas on a paint job after just 24 hours.
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"" 3M 14 Day 2090 Blue Masking Tape, is a medium adhesive, blue color tape. The versatile multi-surface tape can stay on the surfaces for up to 14 days and then removes easily without leaving any sticky residue behind. It is easy to remove and is UV resistant. ""

I taped the cab off on the Saturday before last. I figure I have to pull it off this weekend. Cause rules and shit. .
 
Hmm. I thought the '12 hours' on the spec sheet for the paint meant It was cool to remove the taped edges at 12 hours, not that you could put tape on the paint at 12 hours. I figured that was the point where the paint would let go where it was supposed to and not peel off the truck or keep the tape painted on. Is that wrong?

When can I pull tape?

Also. . . I second coated and third coated at 15 minutes like you said earlier. Is there a way to know when you should recoat? Time seems like a poor way to do it. Also touching it to see if it's sticky seems like a poor way to do it. 🙄

.
 
jeepyj said:
"" 3M 14 Day 2090 Blue Masking Tape, is a medium adhesive, blue color tape. The versatile multi-surface tape can stay on the surfaces for up to 14 days and then removes easily without leaving any sticky residue behind. It is easy to remove and is UV resistant. ""
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That's house painting tape - not autobody painting tape...
 
jeepyj said:
Hmm. I thought the '12 hours' on the spec sheet for the paint meant It was cool to remove the taped edges at 12 hours, not that you could put tape on the paint at 12 hours. I figured that was the point where the paint would let go where it was supposed to and not peel off the truck or keep the tape painted on. Is that wrong?

When can I pull tape?

Also. . . I second coated and third coated at 15 minutes like you said earlier. Is there a way to know when you should recoat? Time seems like a poor way to do it. Also touching it to see if it's sticky seems like a poor way to do it. 🙄

.
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So the tape guidlines refer to when it's safe to tape after a certain amount of time lapse... I typically will pull tape well before the paint dries (roughly 3 hours or a bit later into a cure after the last coat), otherwise you may risk some tape pulling some paint off (it's happened to me, or anyone who has painted). Just use a fine blade (razor) and very CAREFULLY, and slowly make a line before you remove the tape. How you pull the tape off also makes a difference! Don't pull the tape towards the paint... Always pull away from the painted surface if possible.

As for auto tape I will usually use 3M for any auto masking job, or Lichamp:



The blue painters tape from depot or lowes is fine on areas where clean lines aren't important (windows on paper seams and whatnot), but where the body lines are or other areas that need taped proper for clean lines I go with the above. The only paper I use to mask is the green solvent based protective type. Or plastic in areas where flaking isn't an issue. I usually opt for paper though as it won't run the risk of flaking off.

The tape for auto masking is pretty pliable stuff and bends to conform for areas... makes it easier for sure. Also it tends to stick much better and hold for longer periods without curling up. If you managed not to have any issues in that department you will be fine.
 
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Well. . . That teaches me some stuff before I do Sally the square body. 😁 Aaaanyway. .. I should be fine. I have taped off the door jambs / interior where the line will be under the rubber moulding. For the windshield and back window, I ran 1/4" rope under the rubber to get it away from the body and taped the rubber off. I can clean off the rubber if needed before I pull the rope. Get real tape next time. Glad I didn't use plastic to cover the windows. Just paper.
 
jeepyj said:
Well. . . That teaches me some stuff before I do Sally the square body. 😁 Aaaanyway. .. I should be fine. I have taped off the door jambs / interior where the line will be under the rubber moulding. For the windshield and back window, I ran 1/4" rope under the rubber to get it away from the body and taped the rubber off. I can clean off the rubber if needed before I pull the rope. Get real tape next time. Glad I didn't use plastic to cover the windows. Just paper.
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I always use the rope or cable (old tv cable works pretty great) trick for windows with rubber gaskets too... lifts the gaskets just enough to tape over and let paint seap under the gasket for clean lines. :grinpimp:

As for tape... you'll be fine. I have used blue painters tape on some projects in a pinch, it just doesn't react the same. I have also bought crappy tapes sold as "auto masking tape" that worked worse than the blue standard painters tape.
 
:grinpimp::beer:


Looks good! Except where ya didn't tape off the frame! :flipoff2: (I am guessing you are gonna black out the frame later?

Have ya ever tried the Jameson's green label?
 
flecker said:
:grinpimp::beer:


Looks good! Except where ya didn't tape off the frame! :flipoff2: (I am guessing you are gonna black out the frame later?

Have ya ever tried the Jameson's green label?
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The frame is my wifes responsibility. :cool2: She gets to do the POR15.

I haven't had the green label. This is my first bottle ever of Jameson. I was buying Laphroaig 10 when this lady accosted me with 'tastings'. Ended up getting the Black Barrel and some Michters rye as well. . . we like variety.

.
 
PAToyota said:
If you're serious about it, no...

The automotive tape gives you cleaner lines and also withstands higher temperatures - not as much a factor if you're not using a heated spray booth or infrared lamps for curing.
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I honestly had no idea.

My "spray booth" is outside, hopefully on a non windy or rainy day. Haha
 
Good timing on this thread. I was planning to get the HF mid range gun (~$75) and use that, but is the high priced one really that much better?

I am spraying SPI epoxy primer and SPI clear over it.



Next question: how much does pearl effect the tip size needed?

Sprayed base coat of epoxy outside, then filler primer in the garage. Planning to spray all this in the garage, I need to clean and dust. A lot.

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Pearl shouldn't affect tip size.

Just know that you have to lay pearl down in ONE direction - and keep it as even as possible. Back and forth or different angles will make a mess.

This is liquid and an excessive example, but you will get swirls, stripes, and all manner of craziness unless you lay it down evenly.

Swirls.png
 
PAToyota said:
Pearl shouldn't affect tip size.

Just know that you have to lay pearl down in ONE direction - and keep it as even as possible. Back and forth or different angles will make a mess.

This is liquid and an excessive example, but you will get swirls, stripes, and all manner of craziness unless you lay it down evenly.

Swirls.png
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Thank you, I was planning to use way more than the suggested dosing. I'm going to use it through a lace pattern instead of a different color.
 
PAToyota said:
I'd experiment if you're using more than usual. If you're going through lace, then the difference in the orientation of the "flakes" isn't likely to be seen.
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Yes the lace should help with the patterning. I figured I would need quite a bit more to get the contrast needed with just pearl and clear.

I have a 2.2 heavy primer gun, a 1.7 sata primer gun and was going to grab the 1.3 HF that you liked.
 
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