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Shop Truck turned Race Truck SORC Tech in Shit-shat

mobil1syn said:
you want the seat mounted to the cage. think of it like an ejection seat in a fighter jet.
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I think with four M8 bolts going in to thread serts in plastic/fiberglass seats, my floor mounting will be fine. the cage will be welded to the frame, the cab isnt going anywhere.
 
Steve300xcw said:
:flipoff2::flipoff2:
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Ya I get it. professionalRacecarguy(extremej) said "As you know everything on a race car is a compromise of sorts." This is not a full blown track only truck. It is my dd most days. Two years ago at sorc there was a pretty bad wreck on the loup to loup race. The driver died and the passenger was in icu for quite some time. it was a full blown race car. Seat halos and all of it. There has to be a compromise and some acceptance of the risks.

I suppose the best/right way to do it will vary for every application. Is the cage I have sitting here in a box "good enough" or should I take this to a full blown race shop and drop $5 to 10k on a custom cage? Serious question. I have room on the side for sponsors if anyone wants to send some cashola this way. :flipoff2:

I understand the logic behind mounting the seats on the cage vs the floor of the truck. But at the same time, the seats have freaking nutserts in them with m8 bolts. they are only going to hold so much. will the factory seat mounting bolts/holes give way before the nutserts do? So then it comes down to the harness to hold the person and seat in place? Or am I missing something here?

The cage will be mounted through the body and tied into the frame like below. There will be a plate at the pass through on the floor tying the floor to the tube. If it were an issue, I could tie the seat bolts into that tube running along side the frame in some way?

IMG_20180703_183848__94806.jpg

Im not saying I wont add more tubing to mount the seats too. Peer pressure is a bitch. :flipoff2:
 
Most of really bad wrecks I have seen the seats end up getting loose but the driver still was inside the safe space of the cage. I would focus on keeping that bubble at strong as possible, not only from the top and bottom but the sides. There was a really bad wreck last year where the car came down hard on the barrier and pushed the driver into the top of the cage. Whatever you do make sure you have plenty of space between your helmet and the cage. Even in a 5 point harness you have movement. Your helmet hitting the cage is a no go.
 
Does it make sense to get the seat situated where you want them, then add a plate under the floor that could be tied to the cage?

Never built a cage, always interested in how people choose to do theirs
 
posford said:
Does it make sense to get the seat situated where you want them, then add a plate under the floor that could be tied to the cage?

Never built a cage, always interested in how people choose to do theirs
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My thought was to get the seat where I wanted it then put the cage in. But I think with this pre-built cage it can only go in one way. So, ive backed off the seat first idea and will get the cage built in the truck then place the seat accordingly to keep our heads away from the bars as much as possible. theres only so much room in there......:confused:

I watch quite a bit of scca type racing, americas fastest street car, etc. and their seating "area" is usually very tight. No way there is 6+'' of head space. again, build with compromise and accept the risk while hoping for the best?

there is plenty of space to fortify the floor for more secure seat mounting. Maybe I need to mount the seats to the brackets differently other than these chincy thread serts?

20230517_122435.jpg
 
Cage mounting that is pretty easy, but at least you’re using sandwich plates so the floor doesn’t move in relation to the cage
 
xr-nut said:
there is plenty of space to fortify the floor for more secure seat mounting. Maybe I need to mount the seats to the brackets differently other than these chincy thread serts?
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nope, basically all the high end seats are mounted off those and plenty of TTs and rally guys survive the high speed get offs.
 
xr-nut said:
I watch quite a bit of scca type racing, americas fastest street car, etc. and their seating "area" is usually very tight. No way there is 6+'' of head space. again, build with compromise and accept the risk while hoping for the best?
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No driver gets belts as properly tight as a good crew member.
 
Evaluate your risks and plan and build accordingly

Each one of us may end up with a different solution to the same problem

The Pikes Peak Special Mini started life as a bone stock OEM and I tracked it exactly like that. I knew and accepted the risk
Then roll bar
Then race seats and harness
Then bolt in roll cage
And raced it wheel to wheel like that
Then we entered and were accepted to PP so removed everything and built a cage that exceeded the FIA World Rally Specs published in 2010

I think XRNut is on the correct path here.

While shit can and does happen, one can also somewhat control that. Very rarely do I drive at 10/10ths. I don’t have the natural skill or a large wallet to drive beyond my ability so I drive / race with the intent of loading the car under its own power.

A full blown cage in this truck will really preclude using it as a daily. And that would suck.
 
To add
I only solid mounted race seats to the cage structure in the Mini when I fabricated the WRC style cage

Until then Sparcos on mounts on Sparco rails bolted to the OEM holes in the floor. Passed SCCA and NASA tech.

For SORC for the class you are in, in a DD truck I would have no issues riding along.
 
xr-nut said:
this is the cage I bought. added some extras too it, like the x in the main hoop. it is supposed to be bent up exactly for my truck. it is 1.75x120 dom. I know you recommended 2'', but without making it myself this is the best I could find. and it meets the tech for sorc.

I'll post a pic of it all when I get it layed out on the floor. its a giant puzzle. :laughing:

Off-Road-Truck-Full-Size-Roll-Cage-Kit-Chevrolet-C-10-73-87-Chevrolet-88-98-Chevrolet-99-07.png
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cage pic seats.png
So what you may want to do....add 2 stringers that travel across to join the two bars that run parallel to the door sill.
Then have 1 or more tubes go across them to distribute the center load.
Then add 2 floor mount plates in the center, and then figure out how to mount your seats using some tab mounts.
I would use 1 1/4" DOM .095 wall and 3/16 flat steel for the plates.
 
XtremeJ said:
Evaluate your risks and plan and build accordingly

Each one of us may end up with a different solution to the same problem


While shit can and does happen, one can also somewhat control that. Very rarely do I drive at 10/10ths. I don’t have the natural skill or a large wallet to drive beyond my ability so I drive / race with the intent of loading the car under its own power.
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I think this is the key difference. While I am striving to add a level of safety (plus its required to get into the higher speed classes), I have neither the skill or the wallet to match for a full on race car. I also have very little desire to drive past my skill level. And that level is pretty low. :laughing: Fast on the straights and slow in the corners, thats my motto. :lmao: I don't have the balls to run up pikes peak. :eek:


XtremeJ said:
To add
I only solid mounted race seats to the cage structure in the Mini when I fabricated the WRC style cage

Until then Sparcos on mounts on Sparco rails bolted to the OEM holes in the floor. Passed SCCA and NASA tech.

For SORC for the class you are in, in a DD truck I would have no issues riding along.
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Thanks G :beer:
 
XtremeJ said:
Evaluate your risks and plan and build accordingly
I think XRNut is on the correct path here.
A full blown cage in this truck will really preclude using it as a daily. And that would suck.
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Rear glass time, with the down bars going through.

What material, lexan or plexiglas?

What thickness?

I'm reading 1/8th inch but that seems awfully thin. I use that in the flag boxes I make for veterans and a 4x8 sheet of that it really floppy.

I have w/s urethane here so i can glue it and screw it in. Putting new glass in the front. stock door glass.
 
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IIRC Lexan cut WAY nicer than Plexi on my tablesaw, edges of the plexi tore out and were all rough. it also seems to be a little softer in some way

limited experience, none of which directly applies to window of a race truck so my input's worth little
 
budget76 said:
IIRC Lexan cut WAY nicer than Plexi on my tablesaw, edges of the plexi tore out and were all rough. it also seems to be a little softer in some way

limited experience, none of which directly applies to window of a race truck so my input's worth little
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I have the same experience cutting both. thats why I switched to lexan for the flag cases, just cuts nicer. :laughing:
 
Lexan or poly carbonate will not shatter / more flex but also scratches eaiser.

Plexi will shatter like glass with impact but is more resistant to scratches.
 
I have mostly used Lexan, IIRC 3/16" but that was replacing rear windows on the Mini, so I needed it to take a curve. I also used it for the rear hatch glass replacement. Once i put the curve(s) in, it was marginally stiffer.

For your purpose I would be tempted to use 1/4". I think even 3/16th may not be stiff enough for a large flat piece.

Some tips
  • over size your holes
  • deburr edges and holes
  • bevel holes if thick enough to allow for fasteners to sit flush
  • very easy to over tighten and crack the Lexan.
  • use sikaflex or similar to bed the Lexan, I have heard you can use windshield adhesive, but I have also heard you want to the Lexan to "float"
  • leave the protective paper on as long as possible
  • you can get the Lexan in various tints, and colors from smoke to black
  • if you don't bevel, you can get finish type washers to spread the load and give a nice look. Summit or Speedway maybe?
Not so functional, but more for looks
- leave the protective paper in place, mock up the Lexan, mark where the flange sits / ends. Very carefully cut and remove the protective paper where the flange / sealant is. Rattle can matt black (on inside of Lexan). Apply sikaflex or similar (tape everywhere you don't want that shit). Gently place Lexan. Use Kleco's or similar to hold LIGHLTY in place. Begin applying fasteners, tighten to just beyond finger tight. Enough to apply pressure to sealant and get it to squish to edges of flange. Install all fasteners, DO NOT overtighten. Like two turns beyond finger tight. Watch that you are not dimpling the Lexan (the thicker the lexan the better the final look), let sikaflex dry / skim, clean excess sealant, remove tape and protective paper. The black paint should hide the sealant / flange and should look tits.

For those wanting to bend Lexan. I think Plexi bends better but ..........

I used a thick paper board to make templates and then transfer these to the Lexan. It does not always bend like you think so allow extra margin on the edges for error, or allow for making extra's. I filled a couple garbage bags with water and left them in the sun all day. Then put the Lexan on the bottom bag, and put the second bag on top to sandwich the piece. Put it in place, then used kleco's or similar to hold the flat, flat and slowly applied pressure to create the bend. Heat lamps, paint stripper gun on low or similar might be needed to encourage bend. I left the back end long so I had leverage to create bend. This was not easy, and will depend on what the final shape is going to be as to wether you leave a side long or not. Having the original glass to use as a template can be very helpful - used the garbage bags with water in the sun AND the rear glass to get the shape pretty damn close.

Going around the rear cage legs is going to be tricky / require some thought.
Good luck, post pics
 
Playing with 1/4" lexan and getting the bar through it cleanly.

I started down the path of sandwiching the glass between 2 plates. Now I'm leaving towards bar disconnects and filling in the hole somehow.

20230623_084733.jpg
 
xr-nut said:
Playing with 1/4" lexan and getting the bar through it cleanly.

I started down the path of sandwiching the glass between 2 plates. Now I'm leaving towards bar disconnects and filling in the hole somehow.

20230623_084733.jpg
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Body grommets same size as the tube?
 
xr-nut said:
trouble is the hole will not be circular due to the angle of the bar going through it?
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I figured rubber wouldnt care as much, but you could be right. I'm sure you could have something 3d printed also
 
Cut the rear window to the exact size as the stock one. Figure out where the down bars will come through and the cut the appropriate U shapes out of the top of the rear window until it slides in under the bars and fits tight around the bottoms of the tube and sits in place in the windshield frame. Cut out two small top pieces to fill in the gaps in the window above the bars and use rubber weatherstrip edging to seal around them. Easy peasy

And follow XtremeJ's advice on mounting, painting ect because dude knows what's up. :smokin:
 
xr-nut said:
od of tube is 1.75'', so that would mean the id of the plug is at least that. I thought maybe 2'' but measuring it best I can looks like 3'' because of the oblong effect. :homer::confused:

:lmao:
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If the kicker is at a 45* angle, the effective height of the hole is 2.475. subtract 1.75 you get .725 for the "flats"

Circumfrence of a 1.75 hole is 5.5. Add .725x2, thats 6.95. 6.95 circumference is equal to 1.1 radius, so 2.2 diamter.

Heres 2.25" body grommets :flipoff2:
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