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Russia / Ukraine thread

Provience said:
and if he has simply recognized and stayed within the "boundaries" of the breakaways, even the larger boundaries, he wouldn't have had most of this shit to deal with.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind going farther/bombing kiev etc.
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Desperation/pride. Their economy looks a lot like the Weimar Republic right now. Was either this or he's forced to give up power and see the next President go begging the US/EU to be allowed to participate in the world economy again.

China is probably looking at this really carefully right now. Our military isn't the only thing keeping the US in power, we can effectively stranglehold any other nations economy by forcing them out of participation in the global economy until they fail as a state.
 
Motorcharge said:
Desperation/pride. Their economy looks a lot like the Weimar Republic right now. Was either this or he's forced to give up power and see the next President go begging the US/EU to be allowed to participate in the world economy again.

China is probably looking at this really carefully right now. Our military isn't the only thing keeping the US in power, we can effectively stranglehold any other nations economy by forcing them out of participation in the global economy until they fail as a state.
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Well and we have a pretty good record of getting the other West countries involved at least at some level. The Swiss, the fucking Swiss are participating this go round.:laughing:
 
There was (is) an outstanding YouTube series - The Putin Interviews. It is about 3-4 yo and is cringe worthy. He clearly states that Russia cannot tolerate a NATO force on his border. Clearly states that Ukie is a corrupt western operation to subvert the Motherland. And on and on and so forth. This entire fiasco was avoidable. Trump would have steered this shit away . .. . Fuck what a fuck up.

{gary} watch this this eve if you havent seen it -
 
Splib said:
There was (is) an outstanding YouTube series - The Putin Interviews. It is about 3-4 yo and is cringe worthy. He clearly states that Russia cannot tolerate a NATO force on his border. Clearly states that Ukie is a corrupt western operation to subvert the Motherland. And on and on and so forth. This entire fiasco was avoidable. Trump would have steered this shit away . .. . Fuck what a fuck up.

{gary} watch this this eve if you havent seen it -
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cool, so they take over ukraine...now they have massive borders with NATO. so they march west some more? continue until they own europe and NATO is shredded?
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
What I've heard is that he's (Putin) terrified of having Ukraine as a member of NATO, or at least allied with the west, and Ukraine allowing missiles to be stationed in country, close to Moscow.
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As good a reason as any I guess but there were multiple possible outcomes and only really one that would end up the way he wanted. It just sounds too easy to assume he would make that big of a mistake.

1. All goes well, he whoops on Ukraine for a couple of days and they sign an agreement to never join NATO and free hugs for life to Putin from his puppet government.
2. He takes and permanently occupies Ukraine moving his assets closer to the NATO countries he is "worried" about.
3. Ukraine goes all Stalingrad on him and fights him for every inch engaging the rest of the world in their plight and uniting Europe against him in a way that has not been done for 30-40 years.
4. Something really fucked up goes down and they draw NATO into the conflict.
 
Provience said:
cool, so they take over ukraine...now they have massive borders with NATO. so they march west some more? continue until they own europe and NATO is shredded?
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No. Come awn man :flipoff2:

They "regime change" Kiev and life goes back to the good old days :flipoff2:

Serious, that was his original goal. Just secure the place. Fuck what a fuck up. Have you watched the interviews ?
 
MigGunslinger said:
As good a reason as any I guess but there were multiple possible outcomes and only really one that would end up the way he wanted. It just sounds too easy to assume he would make that big of a mistake.

1. All goes well, he whoops on Ukraine for a couple of days and they sign an agreement to never join NATO and free hugs for life to Putin from his puppet government.
2. He takes and permanently occupies Ukraine moving his assets closer to the NATO countries he is "worried" about.
3. Ukraine goes all Stalingrad on him and fights him for every inch engaging the rest of the world in their plight and uniting Europe against him in a way that has not been done for 30-40 years.
4. Something really fucked up goes down and they draw NATO into the conflict.
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Yup, lots a possibilities. IMO it boils down to Putin wanting a "buffer zone" between Russia and NATO. Doing what he's now doing was caused by his paranoia.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
What I've heard is that he's (Putin) terrified of having Ukraine as a member of NATO, or at least allied with the west, and Ukraine allowing missiles to be stationed in country, close to Moscow.
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If that is the only reason, it would be simpler to simply prop up a ruskie political sympathizer, screw over the election system to get the yesman in office and suddenly Ukraine is no longer seeking admittance to NATO. You know, just like russia did to get Trump elected. Or was that not a thing?

Good chance that Ukraine was cleaning a whole bunch of Putin ill-gotten-gains (Ozark), then suddenly refused to go through with it and kept all the money, cause corruption leads to big heads. Putin began stacking military on the border as a threat to get his money back and that didnt work, so invade he went.
 
At this point, I think Putin is basically holding out hoping we'll cave and give him at least something he wants. It's not unrealistic given how we constantly bend over to demands from places like Iran. He knows he isn't going to win the long game here, nor do I think he's trying to.

I don't see him deferring to the nuclear option either. He's desperate, but he's not crazy. He knows if he falls back to that, it means Russia gets destroyed as well. I don't think he's insane, I think it's just difficult for him to come to terms with the fact that Russia isn't the super power it once was and for a century of arms building, including the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet, it really means fuckall at the end of the day. Russia is at the mercy of the rest of the globe whether he likes it or not.

Then again, if backing off this meant having to eat crow from fucking Joe Biden, I might just pick the mutual assured destruction option. :laughing:
 
Motorcharge said:
At this point, I think Putin is basically holding out hoping we'll cave and give him at least something he wants. It's not unrealistic given how we constantly bend over to demands from places like Iran. He knows he isn't going to win the long game here, nor do I think he's trying to.

I don't see him deferring to the nuclear option either. He's desperate, but he's not crazy. He knows if he falls back to that, it means Russia gets destroyed as well. I don't think he's insane, I think it's just difficult for him to come to terms with the fact that Russia isn't the super power it once was and for a century of arms building, including the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet, it really means fuckall at the end of the day. Russia is at the mercy of the rest of the globe whether he likes it or not.

Then again, if backing off this meant having to eat crow from fucking Joe Biden, I might just pick the mutual assured destruction option. :laughing:
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Putin needs to learn that his best option, long term, is to live WITH the other nations on this planet. It's ultimately his best option for
the economic and political well being of his country.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
Putin needs to learn that his best option, long term, is to live WITH the other nations on this planet. It's ultimately his best option for
the economic and political well being of his country.
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I mean he's tried that for years and we've intentionally kept that from happening. He even tried to get Russia into NATO back in the early 2000s and we basically told him to fuck off.
 
aczlan said:
A russian speaking friend sent me this one (may be the same?), they said that the captions are accurate, the video shows captured Russians who claim to be schoolteachers, a locksmith, truck driver in a mine, etc who were told to come for 2-3 days of military training and instead were put in uniforms and sent to invade Ukraine:


Aaron Z
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I honestly don't believe that for a second. Pure Ukraine propaganda.
 
Motorcharge said:
Desperation/pride. Their economy looks a lot like the Weimar Republic right now. Was either this or he's forced to give up power and see the next President go begging the US/EU to be allowed to participate in the world economy again.

China is probably looking at this really carefully right now. Our military isn't the only thing keeping the US in power, we can effectively stranglehold any other nations economy by forcing them out of participation in the global economy until they fail as a state.
Click to expand...

Problem is we're more dependent on China by many orders of magnitude than we are on Russia. When was the last time you bought something that said "Made in Russia"? I'll wait....
 
Provience said:
and if he has simply recognized and stayed within the "boundaries" of the breakaways, even the larger boundaries, he wouldn't have had most of this shit to deal with.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind going farther/bombing kiev etc.
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I figured his first plan was to take the entire country and install a puppet government.

I thought his fallback plan in negotiations would be to go back to the separatist line and look like a reasonable guy even though that is still more than he deserves.
 
shortbus4x4 said:
If Mexico had done this at the height of the cold war I have no doubt the US would have invaded to keep the evil commies away.
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What I would liken this to is Mexico deciding what they're going to annex a chunk of Texas and Arizona because we aren't being nice enough to people of Mexican descent who now live there.

Thumping said:
I honestly don't believe that for a second. Pure Ukraine propaganda.
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I said that the subtitles accurately represent the words spoken by those in the video, not that the video wasn't staged.

Aaron Z
 
SomeGuy said:
Problem is we're more dependent on China by many orders of magnitude than we are on Russia. When was the last time you bought something that said "Made in Russia"? I'll wait....
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20190108_181621.jpg
 
SomeGuy said:
Problem is we're more dependent on China by many orders of magnitude than we are on Russia. When was the last time you bought something that said "Made in Russia"? I'll wait....
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I guess you don't use oil or petroleum products then. :laughing:

There's no shortage of shitty countries next in line that will line up to be a first world manufacturing base. China needs us far more than we need them.

Not to say it wouldn't hurt, but the Chinese dependence people act like the US have isn't as concrete as it's made out to be. China knows it, there's a reason they don't shit where we eat. They talk a lot, but they don't have the means to act on it.
 
Splib said:
No. Come awn man :flipoff2:

They "regime change" Kiev and life goes back to the good old days :flipoff2:

Serious, that was his original goal. Just secure the place. Fuck what a fuck up. Have you watched the interviews ?
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obviously i haven't watched the interviews, figured that would be pretty clear :flipoff2:
 
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