What's new

Russia / Ukraine thread

And what are "we" supposed to do? The current idiots in power are all for crippling any non "green" power, which has only helped Russia gain more power and made other countries dependent on Russia, which is only going to make your fears come true quicker. Rescind the no assassination policy and vote Putin out from the rooftop? Nuke em? What's your wonderful effective solution? Boots on the ground? How will that help?
As I have said numerous times, we knew the invasion was coming for weeks, the Russians should have met the gates of hell crossing that border by Sea, Air and Land. We have so many air intercept systems laying around that we could have loaned them and the operators out to Ukraine. They sure as fuck weren't used in Iraq and Afghanistan unless you are going to try to convince us all they had a standing Air Force. We could have fought the war by proxy just like everyone else does.Technolgy and munitions have a shelf life, use it or lose it and this was the perfect opportunity to use it and hold some T&E afterwards to see if our shit measured up. NATO has a lot of our shit too so they could have done the same and contributed.
 
Did you out yourself as that guy who got banned from pirate? He was obsessed with me. Got reprimand at work at the ship yard for his tranny supervisor. And carried a gun onto the ship yard and got caught? Lmao

Oh, you didn't know that?

Yeah, welcome back Mr. smithkp.
 
So the answer which has been talked about for weeks is saying that Ukraine won't be allowed into NATO? Isn't it too late for that now? Did I miss where you said what you think should happen next to avert more problems?
No idea what you are talking about. My quote had nothing to do with your statement.
 
It's your cushy lifestyle too there sallysue.

What's your grand solution?
We know sanctions don't and won't work as long as Europe keeps buying their oil an gas.
Throw money at Ukraine so the corrupt government can steal it.
Give them weapons so the Russians can have shiny new American toys like Afghanistan.
Invade and occupy Ukraine the American people Don't have the stomach for that.

So get the fuck over it and let Ukraine sink or swim on their own.
 
As I have said numerous times, we knew the invasion was coming for weeks, the Russians should have met the gates of hell crossing that border by Sea, Air and Land. We have so many air intercept systems laying around that we could have loaned them and the operators out to Ukraine. They sure as fuck weren't used in Iraq and Afghanistan unless you are going to try to convince us all they had a standing Air Force. We could have fought the war by proxy just like everyone else does.Technolgy and munitions have a shelf life, use it or lose it and this was the perfect opportunity to use it and hold some T&E afterwards to see if our shit measured up. NATO has a lot of our shit too so they could have done the same and contributed.
"I am not a war monger."

One post later you're blatantly talking about how we should be more involved. :homer:
We already are in this war via proxy and we're going to get absolutely nothing out of it.
 
The people make up the country right?

If we don’t like what we are doing, we should change that.
That's what I'm saying.
We as a country are BiPolar, and as far as I'm concerned the more negative self destructive and deluded and in denial of reality pole in our collective personality is who caused this problem and conveniently they are nominally in charge now so the spotlight is on them so what happens next is their fault too, and I am not willing to take one for their team when their team fucked up. I got a job that makes me do that more than enough. :flipoff2:
 
This is just great, Hey guys, "we" said we'd help so now we really are morally required to, or, hey guys, we already blew a shit ton of money on weapons systems, lets blow a shit ton more escalating a new conflict with them which will make the bad stuff we say we don't want happen even faster. So hey guys, lets just walk away and let the rest of NATO take the lead and be the wallet. :lightbulb::flipoff2:
 
As I have said numerous times, we knew the invasion was coming for weeks, the Russians should have met the gates of hell crossing that border by Sea, Air and Land. We have so many air intercept systems laying around that we could have loaned them and the operators out to Ukraine. They sure as fuck weren't used in Iraq and Afghanistan unless you are going to try to convince us all they had a standing Air Force. We could have fought the war by proxy just like everyone else does.Technolgy and munitions have a shelf life, use it or lose it and this was the perfect opportunity to use it and hold some T&E afterwards to see if our shit measured up. NATO has a lot of our shit too so they could have done the same and contributed.
Happened to catch Joe Pags tonight while driving around and he had a lady on who was born in Ukraine (now emigrated/naturalized in the US), she said that the people she knows over there are willing to fight Russians to the last breath (and are doing so), but they need weapons, specifically Javelin antitank weapons and air defense equipment. Entertainingly, their nickname for Putin is Putler.

Not sure if she is a representative sample of people over there, but it matches what a friend who spent a couple years over there said, he was in the Donetsk region and he said that the majority of the people there consider themselves Ukrainians, not Russians.

He found this, was unsure of the truthfulness but if its a trend that would be a great sign.
https://www.facebook.com/CinCAFU/posts/254902746805218 said:
The Russian occupiers, having encountered total opposition from Ukrainian defenders, surrender.
A whole reconnaissance platoon of the 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade surrendered near Chernihiv.
Sergeant Buinichev Konstantin Sergeevich. 74th Motorized Rifle Brigade, Kemerovo Region
They studied in Yelnya, learned about the attack on Ukraine yesterday, and thought they would return home.
"No one thought we were going to kill. We were not going to fight, we were gathering information"

Also hearing that the Kiev airport is back (at least mostly) under Ukrainian control and the Russians were unable to land and resupply their helicopter born soldiers who initially took control of the airport. That means that to keep going in Kiev they have to truck anything in with a supply line going through 40 miles of Ukraine, they cant just airlift in troops and supplies.

Aaron Z
 
Some of y'all really just have no fucking clue what's really going on here or why.

This is a direct result of the Obama admin funding and arming a far right wing coup in 2014 in an attempt to get Ukraine into NATO and allow us to install nuke sites less than 200 miles from Moscow. This was done so openly and brazenly that Congress passed a law when Trump took office baring future administrations from giving arms, money, or other support directly to Ukrainian militant groups. The Biden family profited from this immensely. This new government in Kiev has been extremely hostile to Moscow since taking power in 2014 and Trump spent 4 years trying to ease tensions between the two countries and got crucified in the media for it as the FBI made up intelligence reports painting him as a Russian agent and the collusion story took off.

There were videos on Youtube of calls between Victoria Nuland, and then ambassador to Ukraine Geoff Pyatt openly discussing to side with the coup because it be disruptive to the EU. There were also recorded calls between members of the Obama admin discussing how to spin a fascist coup as a democratic revolution, They never ended up having to do much of that, because our media basically wrote the narrative for them and had it on tv in real time. Planning for this goes back to Hillary Clinton discussing regime changes in Ukraine as early as 2010 and we held seminars in US embassies in 2013 to teach far right Ukrainian militant groups how to organize online. A number of these separatist groups we trained, armed, and funded are straight up neo-nazi groups, like Azov battalion. There's photos of Pyatt at ceremonies honoring members, including Maxim Yarosh, as Ukrainian heroes. When the coup was over and the new regime started purging the military and civil services, Azov battalion and other militant groups were absorbed into the Ukrainian military.

Fact is, we've been pushing Russia into war for more than a decade. The people who profit heavily off of war in this country are looking for this to be our next Afghanistan. Of course none of this is being covered by media sources in this country, but you can find quite a bit of coverage in EU media sources. The Guardian in particular has regularly kept up on this for years.


 

He also suspended regional elections claiming Russian interference and refused to re-institute them until "separatists" left those areas. It's what got Trump involved and started that quid pro quo horseshit.

He also shut down several media companies and purged the courts and bureaucratic systems of anyone who had openly spoken out against him and replaced them with loyalists. He tried ramming through legislation allowing him direct censorship over media in the country afterwards under the guise of controlling misinformation.
 
If you got the time, this is putins speech translated without any talking heads blabbering over him:


The man does make valid points. I dont agree with him attacking Ukraine, but I get it. They had concerns, attempted to resolve this diplomatically, it didnt work out, and he put his foot down.

We dont really have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to telling them not to invade another country. We have been busy doing that for the last half century
 
1645770645432.png
 
If you got the time, this is putins speech translated without any talking heads blabbering over him:


The man does make valid points. I dont agree with him attacking Ukraine, but I get it. They had concerns, attempted to resolve this diplomatically, it didnt work out, and he put his foot down.

We dont really have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to telling them not to invade another country. We have been busy doing that for the last half century

Here is the full speech 1/3:
https://theprint.in/world/full-text-of-vladimir-putins-speech-announcing-special-military-operation-in-ukraine/845714/ said:
Citizens of Russia, friends,

I consider it necessary today to speak again about the tragic events in Donbass and the key aspects of ensuring the security of Russia.

I will begin with what I said in my address on February 21, 2022. I spoke about our biggest concerns and worries, and about the fundamental threats which irresponsible Western politicians created for Russia consistently, rudely and unceremoniously from year to year. I am referring to the eastward expansion of NATO, which is moving its military infrastructure ever closer to the Russian border.

It is a fact that over the past 30 years we have been patiently trying to come to an agreement with the leading NATO countries regarding the principles of equal and indivisible security in Europe. In response to our proposals, we invariably faced either cynical deception and lies or attempts at pressure and blackmail, while the North Atlantic alliance continued to expand despite our protests and concerns. Its military machine is moving and, as I said, is approaching our very border.

Why is this happening? Where did this insolent manner of talking down from the height of their exceptionalism, infallibility and all-permissiveness come from? What is the explanation for this contemptuous and disdainful attitude to our interests and absolutely legitimate demands?

The answer is simple. Everything is clear and obvious. In the late 1980s, the Soviet Union grew weaker and subsequently broke apart. That experience should serve as a good lesson for us, because it has shown us that the paralysis of power and will is the first step towards complete degradation and oblivion. We lost confidence for only one moment, but it was enough to disrupt the balance of forces in the world.

As a result, the old treaties and agreements are no longer effective. Entreaties and requests do not help. Anything that does not suit the dominant state, the powers that be, is denounced as archaic, obsolete and useless. At the same time, everything it regards as useful is presented as the ultimate truth and forced on others regardless of the cost, abusively and by any means available. Those who refuse to comply are subjected to strong-arm tactics.

What I am saying now does not concerns only Russia, and Russia is not the only country that is worried about this. This has to do with the entire system of international relations, and sometimes even US allies. The collapse of the Soviet Union led to a redivision of the world, and the norms of international law that developed by that time – and the most important of them, the fundamental norms that were adopted following WWII and largely formalised its outcome – came in the way of those who declared themselves the winners of the Cold War.

Of course, practice, international relations and the rules regulating them had to take into account the changes that took place in the world and in the balance of forces. However, this should have been done professionally, smoothly, patiently, and with due regard and respect for the interests of all states and one’s own responsibility. Instead, we saw a state of euphoria created by the feeling of absolute superiority, a kind of modern absolutism, coupled with the low cultural standards and arrogance of those who formulated and pushed through decisions that suited only themselves. The situation took a different turn.

There are many examples of this. First a bloody military operation was waged against Belgrade, without the UN Security Council’s sanction but with combat aircraft and missiles used in the heart of Europe. The bombing of peaceful cities and vital infrastructure went on for several weeks. I have to recall these facts, because some Western colleagues prefer to forget them, and when we mentioned the event, they prefer to avoid speaking about international law, instead emphasising the circumstances which they interpret as they think necessary.

Then came the turn of Iraq, Libya and Syria. The illegal use of military power against Libya and the distortion of all the UN Security Council decisions on Libya ruined the state, created a huge seat of international terrorism, and pushed the country towards a humanitarian catastrophe, into the vortex of a civil war, which has continued there for years. The tragedy, which was created for hundreds of thousands and even millions of people not only in Libya but in the whole region, has led to a large-scale exodus from the Middle East and North Africa to Europe.

A similar fate was also prepared for Syria. The combat operations conducted by the Western coalition in that country without the Syrian government’s approval or UN Security Council’s sanction can only be defined as aggression and intervention.

But the example that stands apart from the above events is, of course, the invasion of Iraq without any legal grounds. They used the pretext of allegedly reliable information available in the United States about the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. To prove that allegation, the US Secretary of State held up a vial with white power, publicly, for the whole world to see, assuring the international community that it was a chemical warfare agent created in Iraq. It later turned out that all of that was a fake and a sham, and that Iraq did not have any chemical weapons. Incredible and shocking but true. We witnessed lies made at the highest state level and voiced from the high UN rostrum. As a result we see a tremendous loss in human life, damage, destruction, and a colossal upsurge of terrorism.

Overall, it appears that nearly everywhere, in many regions of the world where the United States brought its law and order, this created bloody, non-healing wounds and the curse of international terrorism and extremism. I have only mentioned the most glaring but far from only examples of disregard for international law.

This array includes promises not to expand NATO eastwards even by an inch. To reiterate: they have deceived us, or, to put it simply, they have played us. Sure, one often hears that politics is a dirty business. It could be, but it shouldn’t be as dirty as it is now, not to such an extent. This type of con-artist behaviour is contrary not only to the principles of international relations but also and above all to the generally accepted norms of morality and ethics. Where is justice and truth here? Just lies and hypocrisy all around.

Incidentally, US politicians, political scientists and journalists write and say that a veritable “empire of lies” has been created inside the United States in recent years. It is hard to disagree with this – it is really so. But one should not be modest about it: the United States is still a great country and a system-forming power. All its satellites not only humbly and obediently say yes to and parrot it at the slightest pretext but also imitate its behaviour and enthusiastically accept the rules it is offering them. Therefore, one can say with good reason and confidence that the whole so-called Western bloc formed by the United States in its own image and likeness is, in its entirety, the very same “empire of lies.”

As for our country, after the disintegration of the USSR, given the entire unprecedented openness of the new, modern Russia, its readiness to work honestly with the United States and other Western partners, and its practically unilateral disarmament, they immediately tried to put the final squeeze on us, finish us off, and utterly destroy us. This is how it was in the 1990s and the early 2000s, when the so-called collective West was actively supporting separatism and gangs of mercenaries in southern Russia. What victims, what losses we had to sustain and what trials we had to go through at that time before we broke the back of international terrorism in the Caucasus! We remember this and will never forget.

Properly speaking, the attempts to use us in their own interests never ceased until quite recently: they sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen. No one has ever succeeded in doing this, nor will they succeed now.

Despite all that, in December 2021, we made yet another attempt to reach agreement with the United States and its allies on the principles of European security and NATO’s non-expansion. Our efforts were in vain. The United States has not changed its position. It does not believe it necessary to agree with Russia on a matter that is critical for us. The United States is pursuing its own objectives, while neglecting our interests.
 
Here is the full speech 2/3:
https://theprint.in/world/full-text-of-vladimir-putins-speech-announcing-special-military-operation-in-ukraine/845714/ said:
Of course, this situation begs a question: what next, what are we to expect? If history is any guide, we know that in 1940 and early 1941 the Soviet Union went to great lengths to prevent war or at least delay its outbreak. To this end, the USSR sought not to provoke the potential aggressor until the very end by refraining or postponing the most urgent and obvious preparations it had to make to defend itself from an imminent attack. When it finally acted, it was too late.

As a result, the country was not prepared to counter the invasion by Nazi Germany, which attacked our Motherland on June 22, 1941, without declaring war. The country stopped the enemy and went on to defeat it, but this came at a tremendous cost. The attempt to appease the aggressor ahead of the Great Patriotic War proved to be a mistake which came at a high cost for our people. In the first months after the hostilities broke out, we lost vast territories of strategic importance, as well as millions of lives. We will not make this mistake the second time. We have no right to do so.

Those who aspire to global dominance have publicly designated Russia as their enemy. They did so with impunity. Make no mistake, they had no reason to act this way. It is true that they have considerable financial, scientific, technological, and military capabilities. We are aware of this and have an objective view of the economic threats we have been hearing, just as our ability to counter this brash and never-ending blackmail. Let me reiterate that we have no illusions in this regard and are extremely realistic in our assessments.

As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states. Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.

At the same time, technology, including in the defence sector, is changing rapidly. One day there is one leader, and tomorrow another, but a military presence in territories bordering on Russia, if we permit it to go ahead, will stay for decades to come or maybe forever, creating an ever mounting and totally unacceptable threat for Russia.

Even now, with NATO’s eastward expansion the situation for Russia has been becoming worse and more dangerous by the year. Moreover, these past days NATO leadership has been blunt in its statements that they need to accelerate and step up efforts to bring the alliance’s infrastructure closer to Russia’s borders. In other words, they have been toughening their position. We cannot stay idle and passively observe these developments. This would be an absolutely irresponsible thing to do for us.

Any further expansion of the North Atlantic alliance’s infrastructure or the ongoing efforts to gain a military foothold of the Ukrainian territory are unacceptable for us. Of course, the question is not about NATO itself. It merely serves as a tool of US foreign policy. The problem is that in territories adjacent to Russia, which I have to note is our historical land, a hostile “anti-Russia” is taking shape. Fully controlled from the outside, it is doing everything to attract NATO armed forces and obtain cutting-edge weapons.

For the United States and its allies, it is a policy of containing Russia, with obvious geopolitical dividends. For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. This is not an exaggeration; this is a fact. It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions. They have crossed it.

This brings me to the situation in Donbass. We can see that the forces that staged the coup in Ukraine in 2014 have seized power, are keeping it with the help of ornamental election procedures and have abandoned the path of a peaceful conflict settlement. For eight years, for eight endless years we have been doing everything possible to settle the situation by peaceful political means. Everything was in vain.

As I said in my previous address, you cannot look without compassion at what is happening there. It became impossible to tolerate it. We had to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia, on all of us. It is their aspirations, the feelings and pain of these people that were the main motivating force behind our decision to recognise the independence of the Donbass people’s republics.

I would like to additionally emphasise the following. Focused on their own goals, the leading NATO countries are supporting the far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine, those who will never forgive the people of Crimea and Sevastopol for freely making a choice to reunite with Russia.

They will undoubtedly try to bring war to Crimea just as they have done in Donbass, to kill innocent people just as members of the punitive units of Ukrainian nationalists and Hitler’s accomplices did during the Great Patriotic War. They have also openly laid claim to several other Russian regions.

If we look at the sequence of events and the incoming reports, the showdown between Russia and these forces cannot be avoided. It is only a matter of time. They are getting ready and waiting for the right moment. Moreover, they went as far as aspire to acquire nuclear weapons. We will not let this happen.

I have already said that Russia accepted the new geopolitical reality after the dissolution of the USSR. We have been treating all new post-Soviet states with respect and will continue to act this way. We respect and will respect their sovereignty, as proven by the assistance we provided to Kazakhstan when it faced tragic events and a challenge in terms of its statehood and integrity. However, Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist while facing a permanent threat from the territory of today’s Ukraine.

Let me remind you that in 2000–2005 we used our military to push back against terrorists in the Caucasus and stood up for the integrity of our state. We preserved Russia. In 2014, we supported the people of Crimea and Sevastopol. In 2015, we used our Armed Forces to create a reliable shield that prevented terrorists from Syria from penetrating Russia. This was a matter of defending ourselves. We had no other choice.

The same is happening today. They did not leave us any other option for defending Russia and our people, other than the one we are forced to use today. In these circumstances, we have to take bold and immediate action. The people’s republics of Donbass have asked Russia for help.

In this context, in accordance with Article 51 (Chapter VII) of the UN Charter, with permission of Russia’s Federation Council, and in execution of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic, ratified by the Federal Assembly on February 22, I made a decision to carry out a special military operation.

The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation.

It is not our plan to occupy the Ukrainian territory. We do not intend to impose anything on anyone by force. At the same time, we have been hearing an increasing number of statements coming from the West that there is no need any more to abide by the documents setting forth the outcomes of World War II, as signed by the totalitarian Soviet regime. How can we respond to that?

The outcomes of World War II and the sacrifices our people had to make to defeat Nazism are sacred. This does not contradict the high values of human rights and freedoms in the reality that emerged over the post-war decades. This does not mean that nations cannot enjoy the right to self-determination, which is enshrined in Article 1 of the UN Charter.

Let me remind you that the people living in territories which are part of today’s Ukraine were not asked how they want to build their lives when the USSR was created or after World War II. Freedom guides our policy, the freedom to choose independently our future and the future of our children. We believe that all the peoples living in today’s Ukraine, anyone who want to do this, must be able to enjoy this right to make a free choice.

In this context I would like to address the citizens of Ukraine. In 2014, Russia was obliged to protect the people of Crimea and Sevastopol from those who you yourself call “nats.” The people of Crimea and Sevastopol made their choice in favour of being with their historical homeland, Russia, and we supported their choice. As I said, we could not act otherwise.

The current events have nothing to do with a desire to infringe on the interests of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. They are connected with the defending Russia from those who have taken Ukraine hostage and are trying to use it against our country and our people.
 
Here is the full speech 3/3:
https://theprint.in/world/full-text-of-vladimir-putins-speech-announcing-special-military-operation-in-ukraine/845714/ said:
I reiterate: we are acting to defend ourselves from the threats created for us and from a worse peril than what is happening now. I am asking you, however hard this may be, to understand this and to work together with us so as to turn this tragic page as soon as possible and to move forward together, without allowing anyone to interfere in our affairs and our relations but developing them independently, so as to create favourable conditions for overcoming all these problems and to strengthen us from within as a single whole, despite the existence of state borders. I believe in this, in our common future.

I would also like to address the military personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Comrade officers,

Your fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers did not fight the Nazi occupiers and did not defend our common Motherland to allow today’s neo-Nazis to seize power in Ukraine. You swore the oath of allegiance to the Ukrainian people and not to the junta, the people’s adversary which is plundering Ukraine and humiliating the Ukrainian people.

I urge you to refuse to carry out their criminal orders. I urge you to immediately lay down arms and go home. I will explain what this means: the military personnel of the Ukrainian army who do this will be able to freely leave the zone of hostilities and return to their families.

I want to emphasise again that all responsibility for the possible bloodshed will lie fully and wholly with the ruling Ukrainian regime.

To be continued
That's a very interesting take on history...

Aaron Z
 
He looks very uncomfortable in that video, deep breaths and the odd grimace. He’s not well is he?
 
Has anyone heard what Putin's side of it is?

I guess this could be a statement, not sure if it's complete or edited, though. What do you think about it? What did NATO do to screw him over?
If those people wanted to be Russia they should be able to vote or rep on it. But not war.



PUTIN: It is a fact that over the past 30 years we have been patiently trying to come to an agreement with the leading NATO countries regarding the principles of equal and indivisible security in Europe. In response to our proposals, we invariably faced either cynical deception and lies or attempts at pressure and blackmail, while the North Atlantic alliance continued to expand despite our protests and concerns.
We cannot stay idle and passively observe these developments. This would be an absolutely irresponsible thing to do for us.
For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. … It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions. They have crossed it.
The collapse of the Soviet Union led to a redivision of the world. … This array includes promises not to expand NATO eastward even by an inch. To reiterate: They have deceived us, or, to put it simply, they have played us.
There are many examples of this. First a bloody military operation was waged against Belgrade, without the U.N. Security Council’s sanction but with combat aircraft and missiles used in the heart of Europe.
This is how it was in the 1990s and the early 2000s, when the so-called collective West was actively supporting separatism and gangs of mercenaries in southern Russia. What victims, what losses we had to sustain and what trials we had to go through at that time before we broke the back of international terrorism in the Caucasus! We remember this and will never forget.
They sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen.
What next, what are we to expect? If history is any guide, we know that in 1940 and early 1941 the Soviet Union went to great lengths to prevent war or at least delay its outbreak. … The attempt to appease the aggressor ahead of the Great Patriotic War proved to be a mistake which came at a high cost for our people. … We will not make this mistake the second time. We have no right to do so.
 
Last edited:
Has anyone heard what Putin's side of it is?

I guess this could be a statement, not sure if it's complete or edited, though. What do you think about it? What did NATO do to screw him over?
If those people wanted to be Russia they should be able to vote or rep on it. But not war.



PUTIN: It is a fact that over the past 30 years k. … The attempt to appease the aggressor ahead of the Great Patriotic War proved to be a mistake which came at a high cost for our people. … We will not make this mistake the second time. We have no right to do so.

"Her dress was too short, and she was using it against me. I didn't want to, but I had to rape her."

Who gives a fuck what theater that thug makes up to justify himself? It's blatant manipulation.
 
Would we be just as upset if Ukraine had invaded Russia?

We (usa) do crap like this every year. Except we do it like retards. We gain 0 resources. We spend too much. We lose lives. We stir the pot then let it boil over in 5-10 years. Rinse and repeat.

But we do it in the name of freedom, democracy, Raytheon & Lockheed Martin.

I'll give putin this much: he's savvy, he's a strategist, and at least he gains something from his expeditions.
 
Top Back Refresh