RamRunner Refresh

[06h3]

Nice, these little updates/fixes make a rig so much more enjoyable.

Getting the rig from 90% to 100% takes the most time

 

[ridered3]

Nice, these little updates/fixes make a rig so much more enjoyable.

Getting the rig from 90% to 100% takes the most time

Ain't that the truth all around! Last 10% takes 90% of the time.

 

[75RamRunner]

Two steps forward 3 steps back

Had time to tackle the brake switch yesterday, welded a new stop plate for the button to the pedal to i could use an existing tab mount i had and then welded that to the pedal mount. All turned out pretty sweet, rock solid, and the switch engagement and feel are sooooo much better. Actually works like a brake switch should.

Took is for a cruise with the wife and kid, on the way down i kept hearing this mechanical rotational ugliness. But it went away at idle/low rpm. Almost sounded like top end knocking but not metallically enough if that makes sense. Got the lake and the rig is running warm, which is odd as the ambient temp is 20-30 degrees lower than when i did all the fan testing.

Made it 3/4 back and its screaming at us, wife just keeps giving me that look of "you broke it again", I'm beside myself as its been running great, glance at the temp gauge and its 250 before i get a chance to pull off the road, the truck starts pulling RPM, like brake drag pulling, and poof! Coolant everywhere.

99% sure my water pump decided to permanently attach itself to the housing somehow they're both aluminum and the clearances are tight. The truck starts fine and moves, the pulley is turning on the outside but temps just climb immediately.

Fortunately I'm a Mopar hoarder and have a spare passenger outlet housing and water pump sitting on the shelf, do some investigating tonight and see if that's the culprit.

 

[ridered3]

Two steps forward 3 steps back

Had time to tackle the brake switch yesterday, welded a new stop plate for the button to the pedal to i could use an existing tab mount i had and then welded that to the pedal mount. All turned out pretty sweet, rock solid, and the switch engagement and feel are sooooo much better. Actually works like a brake switch should.

Took is for a cruise with the wife and kid, on the way down i kept hearing this mechanical rotational ugliness. But it went away at idle/low rpm. Almost sounded like top end knocking but not metallically enough if that makes sense. Got the lake and the rig is running warm, which is odd as the ambient temp is 20-30 degrees lower than when i did all the fan testing.

Made it 3/4 back and its screaming at us, wife just keeps giving me that look of "you broke it again", I'm beside myself as its been running great, glance at the temp gauge and its 250 before i get a chance to pull off the road, the truck starts pulling RPM, like brake drag pulling, and poof! Coolant everywhere.

99% sure my water pump decided to permanently attach itself to the housing somehow they're both aluminum and the clearances are tight. The truck starts fine and moves, the pulley is turning on the outside but temps just climb immediately.

Fortunately I'm a Mopar hoarder and have a spare passenger outlet housing and water pump sitting on the shelf, do some investigating tonight and see if that's the culprit.

That's never a fun ending to a cruise!!

 

[75RamRunner]

Well i am indeed a certified glue eater.

Found some time to get the pump housing off, i wanted to just pull the pump but with the fans that wasn't going to happen, have to pull the alternator and hydro pump to get the housing off.

Turned out i have (3) water pumps and housings, two passenger outlet housings and one drivers and 3 different pumps. The pump that was in it was stated as a high flow but ill be honest, it looks like the factor impeller style. The pump i previously has on it is anodized blue and has a totally different impeller design, so i opted for that one.

Reused the gaskets and slammed it all back together, filled it up, and it starts streaming from behind the passenger outlet. Gasket was not good i guess I knew better.....

Ripped it all back off, healthy amounts of RTV applied, and decided id let it sit overnight to set. Hopefully fill it up tonight and the rotational ticking goes away.... the water pump spun freely which was not what i was hoping, but there no chance it was circulating water by the water temp rise i got at idle once i dragged it home.

I checked with the builder of the destined powerplant for this thing and the short block is together so were closing in on dyno time, but I'm about over the big block in this thing. I just can't seem to keep them alive. I think its a combination of the less than stellar oiling of BBMs and that they run hot. This block still is kicking 45-50psi at idle though.....

If this block dies this will be the 3rd 440 combo the truck has killed.....

Still ain't going to LS it

 

[Bebop]

Well i am indeed a certified glue eater.

Found some time to get the pump housing off, i wanted to just pull the pump but with the fans that wasn't going to happen, have to pull the alternator and hydro pump to get the housing off.

Turned out i have (3) water pumps and housings, two passenger outlet housings and one drivers and 3 different pumps. The pump that was in it was stated as a high flow but ill be honest, it looks like the factor impeller style. The pump i previously has on it is anodized blue and has a totally different impeller design, so i opted for that one.

Reused the gaskets and slammed it all back together, filled it up, and it starts streaming from behind the passenger outlet. Gasket was not good i guess I knew better.....

Ripped it all back off, healthy amounts of RTV applied, and decided id let it sit overnight to set. Hopefully fill it up tonight and the rotational ticking goes away.... the water pump spun freely which was not what i was hoping, but there no chance it was circulating water by the water temp rise i got at idle once i dragged it home.

I checked with the builder of the destined powerplant for this thing and the short block is together so were closing in on dyno time, but I'm about over the big block in this thing. I just can't seem to keep them alive. I think its a combination of the less than stellar oiling of BBMs and that they run hot. This block still is kicking 45-50psi at idle though.....

If this block dies this will be the 3rd 440 combo the truck has killed.....

Still ain't going to LS it

Don't be an idiot.

Install a good inline electric water pump. (Edit: by good I don't mean a direct mount Meziere)
Install a good ECU with modern fueling and ignition. (edit2: by good I mean at the very least something that has sequential capabilities)
Edit: AND GET THAT SHIT TUNED PROPERLY !

Keep the Big Block.



If you want to be lame get a Hellcat / TRX dropout.





(If you want 8hp support that interfaces with a Holley ECU, I know the guy to talk to)

 

[06h3]

Agreed with what was said above.

Hellcat or keep the big block but in all reality if you have the proper parameters set in some modern ecu for the big block it should be happy if you stop when the big red flashing lights are shining at you through the little ecu screen

 

[Bebop]

Agreed with what was said above.

Hellcat or keep the big block but in all reality if you have the proper parameters set in some modern ecu for the big block it should be happy if you stop when the big red flashing lights are shining at you through the little ecu screen

Make the ECU stop you.
That's why you put modern shit in.

 

[75RamRunner]

Don't be an idiot.

Install a good inline electric water pump. (Edit: by good I don't mean a direct mount Meziere)
Install a good ECU with modern fueling and ignition. (edit2: by good I mean at the very least something that has sequential capabilities)
Edit: AND GET THAT SHIT TUNED PROPERLY !

Keep the Big Block.

If you want to be lame get a Hellcat / TRX dropout.

(If you want 8hp support that interfaces with a Holley ECU, I know the guy to talk to)

The previous water pump on the previous motor worked good i just didnt have enough fan, i cant honestly remember why i didnt swap it over intially, i think it was on the blown up motor that i sent to the builder, if it was the current pump that died the previous one should solve it

I haven't even driven it enough to tune it, one Fordyce trip to WH1 and back and some jaunts around the property, i dont disagree on sequentially injection being better, but i just cant/wont invest that into an engine making 400hp (maybe). with the new power plant that may be a discussion worth having.

I looked at the hellcat drop out really really hard before commissioning the new big block, it ended up coming down to the fact i don't think id keep the supercharger alive in the conditions im in. and I couldn't get my hands on a 8hp95 for a decent price. at the time the TRX were too new and only the trackhawks had them.


SoundGerman has actually been really good to work with for the PCS standalone and i believe someone on this forum (may have been you) recommended me a tuner for the trans and he did a fantastic job getting the shift points aligned with the big tires and gears.

Shit my paddles even work nice now


I do need to put in the safety's into the sniper, i only set a rev limit safety.


I'll be honest ill sell this thing before I get rid of the big block. Or part it out into a true buggy build one day.

 

[Bebop]

I haven't even driven it enough to tune it, one Fordyce trip to WH1 and back and some jaunts around the property,

That's not how tuning works.

I looked at the hellcat drop out really really hard before commissioning the new big block, it ended up coming down to the fact i don't think id keep the supercharger alive in the conditions im in.

You'll be fine, the blower doesn't give 2 fucks.

I couldn't get my hands on a 8hp95 for a decent price.

It's just money




I'm not going to beat you up for it, but you "didn't care" about this engine, and you're dealing with problems that are unfortunately expected to happen in your situation.
Putting money in a good tuning session (at the very least) will avoid aggravation and time spent on the side of the trail/road. It's worth it. Even with a $500 engine.

 

[75RamRunner]

That's not how tuning works.

You'll be fine, the blower doesn't give 2 fucks.

It's just money

I'm not going to beat you up for it, but you "didn't care" about this engine, and you're dealing with problems that are unfortunately expected to happen in your situation.
Putting money in a good tuning session (at the very least) will avoid aggravation and time spent on the side of the trail/road. It's worth it. Even with a $500 engine.

Don't you give me hope on the blower surviving. That was the cornerstone of my fragile argument to keep it n/a


Fine fine, ill find a local tuner. I don't disagree with any of your points, they're all valid and true. and it'll be a good vetting process for when the intended powerplant shows up.

Onto better news the water pump was 100% the culprit of the overheating. The one i swapped in is flowing way more at idle, the fans actually cycle and it takes significantly longer to get from the 165 thermostat opening to the 185 degree fan trigger. depending on the ambient temperature it didn't actually push over 180 mark.

The trans is doing funky things again, I think its fluid related, its a motherfucker to get this to the correct level. But it was doing rolling burnouts in 2nd, 3rd and staying below 160 degrees so its acting okay? We will see going to haul it out to SM in a few weeks and abuse it there

 

[Bebop]

Don't you give me hope on the blower surviving. That was the cornerstone of my fragile argument to keep it n/a

I can show you blown rock bouncers and ultra4 cars that live a miserable life and if there is one thing that doesn't give 2 fucks, the blower is definitely it.

You need the room and the proper cooling system in order to keep the engine together, but again, the blower will happily whine X psi worth of piston melting air as long as its pulley spins.

Fine fine, ill find a local tuner. I don't disagree with any of your points, they're all valid and true. and it'll be a good vetting process for when the intended powerplant shows up.

Good outlook on things.
And if your tuner is more familiar with another system than the one I've been talking about here (Holley), and said system isn't a giant POS (like FiTech or Aces), then go with his suggested solution. It helps having a good tuner in your pocket.

Onto better news the water pump was 100% the culprit of the overheating. The one i swapped in is flowing way more at idle, the fans actually cycle and it takes significantly longer to get from the 165 thermostat opening to the 185 degree fan trigger. depending on the ambient temperature it didn't actually push over 180 mark.

That's great news !

 

[75RamRunner]

Good outlook on things.
And if your tuner is more familiar with another system than the one I've been talking about here (Holley), and said system isn't a giant POS (like FiTech or Aces), then go with his suggested solution. It helps having a good tuner in your pocket.

Scott with EFIsystems whom i purchased the sniper 2 from does tuning, did the datalogs last night (Cold start, warm start, acceleration tests, cruise, etc) and somehow lost my card reader so as soon as i get that ill send those files over and get his feeling on them.

I'm getting an awful ticking/rattling under load that sounds topend. Not present at idle at all, not present revving at idle, only present underload accelerating at 2500rpms+

Sub 2000 cruising its also not present.

Going to triple check TC bolts tonight and if theyre not loose pull the valve covers and see if a spring broke or something.

I temp guned the header tubes and everything is firing

 

[Bebop]

I'm getting an awful ticking/rattling under load that sounds topend. Not present at idle at all, not present revving at idle, only present underload accelerating at 2500rpms+

Hydraulic rockers?

 

[75RamRunner]

Hydraulic rockers?

flat tappet, no lifters to collapse.

I feel like a bent pushrod would be constant tapping, and broken/cracked flex plate should be making noise at idle in park/neutral and go away under load.

She runs good, like burnouts in 3rd gear good. Its definitely heat related, as it gets louder the longer i drive it. The specific scenario its deafening in is cruising uphill in 4/5th at 40-50% throttle.

 

[Bebop]

flat tappet, no lifters to collapse.

I feel like a bent pushrod would be constant tapping, and broken/cracked flex plate should be making noise at idle in park/neutral and go away under load.

She runs good, like burnouts in 3rd gear good. Its definitely heat related, as it gets louder the longer i drive it. The specific scenario its deafening in is cruising uphill in 4/5th at 40-50% throttle.

How often do you check valve lash ?
Do that and change the oil / cut the filter open.

 

[75RamRunner]

How often do you check valve lash ?
Do that and change the oil / cut the filter open.

did you just ask if i checked the valve lash in a 500 dollar facebook marketplace long block?

The ole block was lucky to get that "freshly rebuilt" rattle can job before i hucked it into the engine bay

I have to repair the slide-out of the new trailer then im refocusing back on this thing it really sounds middle top end valvetrainish

 

[Bebop]

did you just ask if i checked the valve lash in a 500 dollar facebook marketplace long block?

Dude.
You can't "not give a fuck about the $500 fbmp block" and at the same time wonder why it doesn't run right.

Go check the valve lash as well, it plays into tuning.

 

[75RamRunner]

Dude.
You can't "not give a fuck about the $500 fbmp block" and at the same time wonder why it doesn't run right.

Go check the valve lash as well, it plays into tuning.

I wouldn't say don't give a fuck about it, more care just enough to make it last until the built one shows up. I have a reoccuring theme in my life of trying to make things too nice and a broken push rod turns into a new hydraulic cam, which then i might as well go full roller rockers, and that makes sense to pair with new cnc heads, etc.

I'm just trying to not fuck with this thing beyond what it needs, and that's hard for me so it manifests in not doing anything

I agree it needs a once over of the valvetrain and intend to do so, pretty sure the valve covers is ever so slightly leaking on the #8 tube as well so it would be nice to regasket it as well.

 

[Bebop]

I agree it needs a once over of the valvetrain and intend to do so, pretty sure the valve covers is ever so slightly leaking on the #8 tube as well so it would be nice to regasket it as well.

And by once over, we mean checking pushrod straightness and lashing the valves.
Maybe $12 valve cover gaskets if we want to be fancy.

Not throwing the comp cam kitchen sink at it.

 

[75RamRunner]

And by once over, we mean checking pushrod straightness and lashing the valves.
Maybe $12 valve cover gaskets if we want to be fancy.

Fel Pro blue's are on order! i have a nice welding table i was going to roll them on. I'm half hoping to pull the cover and see a rocker off or broken spring. You know something easy

Not throwing the comp cam kitchen sink at it.

Booooooo. Boooo the nonebeliever! All broken stock parts require snowball effects of upgrades!

 

[75RamRunner]

Well, good/bad news

Nothing was obviously bent/broken.....

There is a lot of evidence of blow-by and the vent tube is pretty decently coated in oil, even with the baffled valve covers. All my 440s have had some decent crankcase pressure but this seems excessive

There are inner and outer valve springs and from what i can tell they all look to be in decent shape.

I was really hoping to not pull the intake but my last "top-end" inspection is under the valley plate so its coming off hopefully this weekend/tomorrow.

The ends of the rocker shafts appear to have a slight taper to them, which i must have never noticed on any of my previous BBMs prior but i thought the number one intake rocker was stupid tight on the shaft and binding (and it still might be) as all the other move freely on the shaft, but once i tapped it off the shaft the rocker bearing sleeve looked fine, no marring on the shaft itself, no signs of heat. I don't like how tight it is but it doesnt appear to be "wrong", i didn't check lash as im going to relash the whole valvetrain when i reassemble regardless if i find anything under the valley cover.

The number 8 exhaust pushrod looked mighty suspect when assembled but the welding table roll test said it was as straight as any of the others. I think i was just looking/expecting something in the back to be wrong as that's where i hear the noise

I could swear i saw the sparkling signs of doom in some of the pools of oil in the heads, so im going to do an oil change as part of this as previously recommended

It's a little insane to me how great it sounds/runs to have something majorly fucking up where i can't see. 60psi of cold oil pressure, 40 psi at idle hot, runs like a raped ape. Just top end taps


Stay tuned......

 

[Crashnzuk]

Easy way to see if that tight rocker is the rocker or the shaft is to swap another rocker in its place and see if it’s tight too. You could also see if the tight rocker is still tight in another spot on the shaft.
Travis..

 

[75RamRunner]

Easy way to see if that tight rocker is the rocker or the shaft is to swap another rocker in its place and see if it’s tight too. You could also see if the tight rocker is still tight in another spot on the shaft.
Travis..

Its not the rocker, its the shaft but by design i guess? All ends of the rocker shaft have the same scenario

Pulled the valley pan and everything looked hunky dory....

All the lifters rotated freely, no marring, no shiny flakes of doom in the valley. Little frustrated now. Pulled a few random plugs yesterday just to see, all looked normal. No excess oil, not super lean, actually the best any plugs have looked in this rig.

My feeler gauges grew legs and disappeared so ill pick a set up today or tomorrow and check lash but that's about all that's left on the top end. I'm not opening up the bottom end on this engine. I mentioned somewhere in here is was a 1200 dollar marketplace long block with unknown miles. It's got blow-by and I'm sure could use a freshen up but its primary duty is a placeholder for the engine to get out of builder jail. Which is has done pretty well until recently lol

 

[Levigarrett76]

flywheel to crank bolts?

this is what it sounds like when they are all finger tight...

 

[75RamRunner]

flywheel to crank bolts?

this is what it sounds like when they are all finger tight...

Checked the TC to flywheel bolts as thats all i can reach. Aint not way im getting to the crank bolts.

But its not nearly that "solid" of a sound and isn't present at idle, free revving, etc. only under load at 2500+

 

[Hooligan]

Not pinging, like predetonation?

Since it is under load, that’s what I’m thinking.


Make sure there isn’t a zip tie around the drive shaft.

 

[350TacoZilla]

At this point your pretty close to doing head gaskets anyhow. Maybe small tear that is getting combustion gases into oil passage?

The problem starting under load almost sounds like a cam lobe going bad but if you already checked that I dunno. Weak valve spring maybe? gets warm and starts losing valve control.

Sorry if you already covered this but do you have a A\F Gauge in truck to know what the FI system is doing for lean\rich under that 2500 load condition?

 

[75RamRunner]

Not pinging, like predetonation?

Since it is under load, that’s what I’m thinking.

Make sure there isn’t a zip tie around the drive shaft.

The plugs looked really good to be predetonation and didnt sound like that to me

My buddies have done that one before. I almost unalived the dude once i finally figured it out lol

At this point your pretty close to doing head gaskets anyhow. Maybe small tear that is getting combustion gases into oil passage?

The problem starting under load almost sounds like a cam lobe going bad but if you already checked that I dunno. Weak valve spring maybe? gets warm and starts losing valve control.

Sorry if you already covered this but do you have a A\F Gauge in truck to know what the FI system is doing for lean\rich under that 2500 load condition?

Could be a head gasket, but the coolant isnt showing signs of compression in it and the oil didnt look to have a bunch of carbon. But it could. If thats the case the old block is going to show me that problem before i tear it down

The truck stays pretty solid around 13.5-14.2 depending on throttle input going down to 12.8-13 at WOT.

All good ideas though

 

[Bebop]

Valve lash looks good.
AFR in check.
No glitter in the oil.

I'd send it.