RamRunner Refresh

[75RamRunner]

Original build was done by an awesome local shop whose owner I'm friends with (Predator Off-road) with the intentions to make a big dumb truck go way to fast in things it should never be doing. And it does

I've been abusing it for 7 or so years now and its time for a little refresh. Well a forced refresh. Orginal build spec's are

Full Tube Chassis
4 link front
trailing arm rear
60/14 bolt
atlas
440/727
Lots of tube


Earlier this year i was so fed up with the 3 speed and the hinderance of the rig i put it for sale, lucky it didnt go anywhere. So i pulled a 8hp75 out of a 2019 ram and used a JVX adapter and made it mate up to the 440.

And all of a sudden we had some usable horsepower again

 

[75RamRunner]

Maybe these videos will work







Anyways the 8 speed totally refocused what i could do with this thing, itll chirp the 43s through 3rd gear. Big Block stuff you know.

There were some minor updates along the way that im taking huge leaps over so if you want to see anything just ask, i went away from the TSLs and racelines and put on the Baja X and some trailworthy double beadlocks, got rid of the inline fuel pump for holleys in tank fuel cell deal (what a sweet setup that is)


Well that brings me to the forced refresh. The 440 decided to unalive itself on the recent Beau Bash trip. Not entirely i drove it out, but 3-6psi of oil pressure isn't a fun ride let me tell ya. So i yanked it out and its getting a rebuild

So the plans are

Refresh the 440, maybe add a roller cam
Clean up the 7 years of trail fixes
Clean up the wiring
Switch from Vaccum brakes to hydroboost (vaccum sucks with the cam, go figure)
Get rid of the rubber fuel lines and switch to all braided AN stuff
Either build or have built some custom headers, ive tried 3 different sets of center dump block headers and none of them seal for long. Thinking a hybrid "fenderwell" 3in 1 out set up like some of the old drag cars ran.

And any other fuckery i find that needs to be fixed while its apart

 

[Bebop]

Ok, I'm invested now. This is a rad machine !

 

[75RamRunner]

This was from last weekend

Ordered the wilwood hydroboost kit through Busted Knuckle thats ported so it doesnt hurt the full hydro flow going to see if i can't utilitze the under dash brake switch otherwise i gotta plumb it inline.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

How are you controlling the 8hp?

 

[Chicken Corners]

Nice looking rig. From 1976 till 1995 we had a 76. Seeing rigs like this make me wish it was still around. Learned how to drive, and back up a trailer in it. 4 speed full time 4 wheel drive, 400ci engine, even in 76 the 440 only came with auto.

 

[75RamRunner]

How are you controlling the 8hp?

Sound German PCS standalone controller for the tranny. Need a few inputs like RPM, brake, TPS, pretty simple stuff. The tuning was what took time but actually getting it in and running wasn't bad.

Nice looking rig. From 1976 till 1995 we had a 76. Seeing rigs like this make me wish it was still around. Learned how to drive, and back up a trailer in it. 4 speed full time 4 wheel drive, 400ci engine, even in 76 the 440 only came with auto.

Thank you, its a love hate. Its morphed so much i don't think i could ever let it go. There's been times i wanted to see it gone for 1/4 of what is into it. But if i had to have a boat anchor, there could be worse ones

The plan is to have my fun with it and then let my son (currently 9mo) learn how to wheel/drive in it. Figure its about as safe as you can get

 

[Snowracer]

such a wicked set up, cant wait to see more

 

[75RamRunner]

Nothing exciting to report yet. Just general trail fix removal. I did replumb the entire fuel system, i did it in standard rubber hose the first time around, no complaints it worked. But the areas near the exhaust were getting stiffer, so its all new -6an braided hose from cell to TBI. I did not reroute the hose as I'm planning a new exhaust route. Engine is only 550hp so no need for larger line.

Hoping to get the Vacuum boost off and hydro on this week. I have enough -8an to do the relief hose off the hydroboost and Y into the hose from the orbital to the cooler.

Should i be worried about backflow from the orbital return line into the hydro return line? Was planning just a standard Y fitting like below to combine both return lines at the cooler. They're both on the low pressure side of the system, and i figure the Y fitting will already help with backflow compared to a T.

 

[Thornbird1]

Nice, following for sure

 

[75RamRunner]

Two steps forward one step back

Got the old Vaccum boost out

And then the Busted Knuckle ported hydro boost with pedal assembly mounted up

Stared at it a few times, took a look at some old engine bay photos, and I'm 95% sure that the hydro reserve wants to live in the same space as the drivers valve cover. I cant confirm because the engine is in machine shop jail but it looks damn close. The vacuum booster was physically larger in diameter but the hydro sticks toward the grill another 2".....

Second bummer is the pedal kit from BKO is super trick, very well done. But my cowl panel forces me to mount the booster lower than old one, hence the valve cover interference thought, I also had to hack apart the existing pedal assembly, and looking at it now I need to take even more out. So i scribbled some napkin dimensions, threw it into CAD and sent them off to get burned out. Going to do an exterior plate to tie into the shock hoop as the firewall was already flexing with the factory pedal supports removed so an extra brace in there wont hurt. Also offset the mounting location 2" high and 1" over so I should clear with plenty to spare now

 

[75RamRunner]

Also in watching BKO install video they said multiple times to not tie into the return with a Y as i proposed above, fortunately my reservoir has a 3rd port that I can tie the return directly into so no harm there, I doubt the hydro will introduce much heat to the fluid in comparison to the steering so bypassing the cooler for the return off the hydro should be fine.....

 

[Sluggy]

Odd question but we're trying to sell this thing on sfbay craigslist for awhile? I looks just like one that was posted not that long ago. Cool build by the way.

 

[75RamRunner]

Odd question but we're trying to sell this thing on sfbay craigslist for awhile? I looks just like one that was posted not that long ago. Cool build by the way.

Tried to give it away yeah

That was before the 8 speed swap and i figured out that I could do big dumb truck things with it

 

[75RamRunner]

Had a decently productive weekend, progress is slow as I'm working on this on weekends at night after the kid goes to sleep, next week i have some time to hopefully make a leap in progress but we will see...

So the old mount was going to be too close to valve covers, so i cut it off

Then i attached the top to my new backing bracket, i offset the hole up and out to get the clearance, i also cut apart more of the factory pedal mount to gain another 1-2" out there

Installed in its home

The pedal again, is very well built, but for my application too far off the floor. I cut the old brake pedal and welded it to this piece as an extension, didnt get any pics of that apparently

From the outside

The original bracket was 3/16 black iron, so the new bracket is 1/8" black iron and the outside backing plate is 16g black. About the same thickness but i made the firewall plate 8"x8" to spread the load of the pedal, i was originally planning on putting a kicker tube to the shock hoop for support but it doesn't seem to need it.


I also picked up a nice TNT longblock to use while the new engine gets built. Long and short is my builder dug into the block and most of the rotating assembly needs replaced, so rather than just rebuild it to what it was, were going to stroke it to 505, port the heads, and maybe switch to a roller cam.....all meaning longer down time. Hence the new to me engine. Spec's are 1969 block, 906 heads, 285/297 duration and .545 lift cam. Real close cam spec's to my old engine so I'm thinking it'll be within 40-50hp of my old assembly.

Gave it a facebook marketplace "rebuild"

Truck pan, intake, and water pump should be here this week so i can get it bolted back into the truck and finish my plumbing on the hydro assembly.

 

[Bebop]

Also in watching BKO install video they said multiple times to not tie into the return with a Y as i proposed above, fortunately my reservoir has a 3rd port that I can tie the return directly into so no harm there, I doubt the hydro will introduce much heat to the fluid in comparison to the steering so bypassing the cooler for the return off the hydro should be fine.....

I disagree with Jake on this one.

Use a T, not a Y and put the HB return on the T.
Main return on the run.

In my experience this has been the best performing solution.

Plumbing it direct to resi = sending how oil back in resi that will bypass the cooler.

 

[75RamRunner]

I disagree with Jake on this one.

Use a T, not a Y and put the HB return on the T.
Main return on the run.

In my experience this has been the best performing solution.

Plumbing it direct to resi = sending how oil back in resi that will bypass the cooler.

See this was my original train of thought too. Why do you say T instead of Y, it would seem to me that the T would introduce more restriction than the Y, the Y scenario would seem to create a venturi effect and "pull" the return line with the pressure of the return from the orbital into the cooler.

I wish there was a way to know the percentage of bleed off into the return on the hydro vs the flow through to the orbital, i have to imagine the majority goes to the orbital due to pressure issues for steering, so if were talking only 10-15% return to the resi then i doubt the heat introduced will have an effect vs the 85% return coming back from the cooler

 

[Bebop]

See this was my original train of thought too. Why do you say T instead of Y, it would seem to me that the T would introduce more restriction than the Y, the Y scenario would seem to create a venturi effect and "pull" the return line with the pressure of the return from the orbital into the cooler.

I'm just telling you what worked for me in the past. I don't think the Y fitting would hurt anything. But I have had good results with the T fitting in multiple cars.

so if were talking only 10-15% return to the resi then i doubt the heat introduced will have an effect vs the 85% return coming back from the cooler

I also have tested this theory and while it makes sense on paper, when you're crawling and holding the brakes for an extended period of time (IE left foot braking) the temperature inside the resi will skyrocket. Night and day difference after plumbing it into the return flow.

 

[75RamRunner]

I'm just telling you what worked for me in the past. I don't think the Y fitting would hurt anything. But I have had good results with the T fitting in multiple cars.


I also have tested this theory and while it makes sense on paper, when you're crawling and holding the brakes for an extended period of time (IE left foot braking) the temperature inside the resi will skyrocket. Night and day difference after plumbing it into the return flow.

I believe you I was just talking it out. I'll Y it out

 

[Bebop]

Also, Y fittings don't exist in AN10 with one leg in AN6. T fittings do.

 

[75RamRunner]

Also, Y fittings don't exist in AN10 with one leg in AN6. T fittings do.

Alright you convinced me, mostly because i wanted to anyways

I am going to Y instead of T, my return lines off the orbital are -8an as are the inlets on my cooler, so ill go -8an Y on all 3, with a -6an reducer off one leg where the hydro inlet will come in.

Should have some goodies from summit showing up today, the crank spacer off my old engine was an 8 bolt crank and this one is 6 bolt, so have that in the mail as well.

Might have a driving truck before mid October.

I have the paddle shifters that are waiting for me to wire in, as well as a leaking atlas output seal that I haven't had the desire to look at yet.


I had a set of custom tuned 2 1/8 headers built locally by a guy for my c10 drag truck and he did a knock job. Charged me 300 bucks more than i could've bought the materials for and I damn sure wouldn't have made them as nice. reached back out and he has an opening mid October to see this rig so ill send it off to him. for the "fenderwell" exhaust I have going in my mind. He wants to use 2.5" from the collector out, which is smaller than my current 3" but I'm also twined into a single exit right now and this new design will be solo runs off each bank to its own exit, no merger.

I'm also probably barely breaking 450hp with this iron head engine, the new one will be in the 650 range but the 2.5" should still support that just fine, I can lose a little top end for torque anyways.

 

[Bebop]

Alright you convinced me, mostly because i wanted to anyways

I am going to Y instead of T, my return lines off the orbital are -8an as are the inlets on my cooler, so ill go -8an Y on all 3, with a -6an reducer off one leg where the hydro inlet will come in.

Cool.

Get a AN8 conversion fitting for AN6 hose. They exist and would make the result a lot cleaner than an extra adapter fitting.

 

[75RamRunner]

Got the Long block pretty much together

Got the adapter ready to go on, waiting on the water pump and distributor, really wanted to put that on the engine right now while its at TDC before i put it in the chassis and rotate it to get the TC bolts on. Its a huge PITA to rotate in the chassis with all the tube, but if by the weekend its still not here ill stab it in.

 

[75RamRunner]

Got the rest of the hydro system finish plumbed, thanks to Bebop for the insight on the -6 to -8 conversion fitting, way cleaner!

There's a lot going on in that small space but it seems to all be living in harmony. I'm not a fan of the high pressure transfer from the booster to the orbital, but it has to have that angle for the return line to clear.

All buttoned up with the shock resi remounted.

Still waiting on the damn water pump and distributor to button up the engine on the stand and slam it back into the chassis. Which is really a shitty excuse as everything can be put on in the chassis I'm just a baby and don't want to do it in there when its so easy on the stand.

 

[Bebop]

Try to make a hard line for this. Way cleaner.

 

[75RamRunner]

Now you tell me

 

[75RamRunner]

Got the water pump finally, no idea where my distributor is in shipping land and apparently I sent off my double groove crank pulley with the old motor, which sucks. so I got the accessories mounted, ordered the pulley, and a new crank pulley last night. And a new distributor that should work with my MSD box. Luckily 440source is right over the hill from me so I typically see stuff next day. might be slamming this big girl back home this weekend.

 

[Bebop]

What do you use to control the 8hp75 ?

 

[75RamRunner]

What do you use to control the 8hp75 ?

a PCS standalone harness from SoundGerman, Russell is a great guy to work with. Biggest trouble was getting the shift parameters close enough. He has a static table of values that works for most BBM with 28-31" tires.

Obviously the 43s and 5.38s threw that out the window. But we got it close enough that i was able to go to an outside tuner using HPTuners and nail down the shift points. Tunes just like a modern charger/challenger/ram. really easy.

 

[carslut]

interested to see how you like the hydro boost and if you will have any issues holding the breaks and getting low steering response. i have this issue on 1 of my rigs with hydro assist breaks. im on the fence plumbing the steering and hydro assist totally separate from each other.