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Pistol brace ruling - ATF at it again

I read the week that they went online for efile form for they got over 32,000 applications.
 
Don't worry, with 80,000 new brown shirts..... I mean tax collectors coming on board, they'll be able to get caught up.
 
Tech Tim said:
Don't worry, with 80,000 new brown shirts..... I mean tax collectors coming on board, they'll be able to get caught up.
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Funny. They can’t 80,000 people to piss clean.
 
Texas97 said:
"Send a picture of your newly illegal firearm" ok. Sounds like a trap.

I hope people don't flood the system as it screws the rest of us stamp collectors who are waiting on integrals, cans and FA.
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could-this-be-a-trap.gif



its-a-trap.gif
 
Toreadorranger said:
My recommendation is to grab a beer, sit in your favorite chair and get to reading. I am currently a little less then half way through reading the ruling.

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kf4zht said:
Pretty clear if you read the FAQs (grabbing a few here)

6. WHAT ARE THE COMPLIANCE OPTIONS FOR AN INDIVIDUAL (NON-LICENSEE) IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM EQUIPPED WITH A “STABILIZING BRACE,” WHICH IS A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR), AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE FINAL RULE? • Submit through the eForms system an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (EForm 1) within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register. • Permanently remove or alter the “stabilizing brace” so that it cannot be reattached and thereby removing it from regulation as a “firearm” under the NFA. • Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA. • Turn the firearm into your local ATF office. • Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov).


ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED AS A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR) CAN I REMOVE/CHANGE THE “STABILIZING BRACE” OR ATTACH AN ITEM MARKETED AS A STOCK? IF SO, AM I REQUIRED TO NOTIFY ATF IN ADVANCE? • Yes, the firearm is registered as an SBR, and you can change out the “brace” device or stock for a different brace or stock. You do not need to contact ATF/NFA because changing the brace/stock 5 does not change the configuration of the SBR. However, if the length of the firearm has changed you will need to notify the NFA Division.

15. IF I ATTACHED MY “STABILIZING BRACE” ON A RIFLE WITH A 16” BARREL, WILL THE FIREARM FALL WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE NFA? • Generally, no. A rifle with a barrel (rifled) of at least 16 inches would not be an SBR under the NFA regardless of whether it incorporates a “stabilizing brace” or traditional shoulder stock. Note, the firearm would need to retain an overall length of at least 26 inches and not fall into other NFA categories. Firearms with an attached “brace” device may be submitted to FATD for a determination.

16. CAN I LEGALLY SELL MY “STABILIZING BRACE” TO SOMEONE WHO MAY BE INTERESTED IN MAKING A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)? EVEN AFTER THE TAX FORBEARANCE PERIOD TERMINATES? • ATF does not regulate the sale of firearm accessories.

17. IS THE “STABILIZING BRACE,” BY ITSELF, AN ITEM THAT REQUIRES REGISTRATION UNDER NFA? • No, a “stabilizing brace” is an accessory and ATF does not regulate accessories. However, a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” may be subject to registration if it is an SBR because it is “designed, redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder,” as described by the amended definition of “rifle” in the Code of Federal Regulations and has a barrel(s) of less than 16 inches or an overall length of less than 26 inches.


All they did was say that except within the very small category of firearms (which are extremely vague) a brace=a stock. If you have a brace on something with less than a 16" barrel you are currently a felon in violation of the NFA. However if you do your civic duty and register it within 120 days they will not file charges (maybe).

So you can remove the brace, replace the barrel, register it or destroy it. You can't sell it (since its an unlicensed SBR). There is some guidance that suggests as soon as you file the registration you can swap it for a stock, since in their eyes you are already in possession of an unregistered SBR.
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So is there anything in there that talks about having optics on a pistol could make it a rifle?

Somebody told that to a buddy of mine and he is having an absolute melt-down about pulling all his optics of his pistols so they won't be SBRs.
 
Tech Tim said:
So is there anything in there that talks about having optics on a pistol could make it a rifle?

Somebody told that to a buddy of mine and he is having an absolute melt-down about pulling all his optics of his pistols so they won't be SBRs.
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I think that was part of the worksheet 4999. Can't completely tell if that was included in this or not
 
Texas97 said:
Fbi does the background check. ATF is usually sitting around waiting on those pricks
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Yep. ATF sends your prints and pictures to the FBI. Unfortunately they are too busy investigating the January 6th insurrection right now to process background checks.
 
According to the atf you cannot register the firearm in a trust unless it was in a trust prior to the ruling. So, I'm guessing it would need to be registered under an individual. Does this raise any legal issues? Like less paperwork to charge an individual for possession of an sbr? Sorry if it's a dumb question. I'm just not real trusting of the gov...
 
Tech Tim said:
Don't worry, with 80,000 new brown shirts..... I mean tax collectors coming on board, they'll be able to get caught up.
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Supposedly according to a connected friend its worse than that. The vast majority of those 87k (like 90%) new hires arent agents, theyre auditors. Think about what that means for a minute.
 
Stuck said:
Supposedly according to a connected friend its worse than that. The vast majority of those 87k (like 90%) new hires arent agents, theyre auditors. Think about what that means for a minute.
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And part of the original Job qualifications was about handling firearms. They are building another Alphabet private army.
 
Tech Tim said:
And part of the original Job qualifications was about handling firearms. They are building another Alphabet private army.
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The actual job announcements are seperate. There looks to be some new added on numbers for agents but most of those positions are for attrition. The vast numbers according to him are for non armed positions. They all got lumped into one category in all of the media reports. FWIW I dont trust the.gov but I do trust him to tell me the truth of what he knows.
 
To the guy asking about a brace for your spare lower. Unless you are wanting to register it as an sbr through the proposed "amnesty" I would not get one. They have just declared that they are now stocks, so you might just as well slap a stock on it. Either way it will be considered an sbr.
If you want toget one on the off chance the lawsuits prevail sometime in the next few years then buy one on sale now. Some places are fire selling them off now.
Where the hell is so tactical in this mess. Haven't heard anything from them. The government trying to turn millions of your customers into fellons should elicit some sort of response.
 
aron82 said:
Where the hell is so tactical in this mess. Haven't heard anything from them. The government trying to turn millions of your customers into fellons should elicit some sort of response.
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I assume you mean SB? Look at any of their social media outlets? Video clip from Rambo "Nothing is over"
 
:Tinfoilhat:

The ATF knows this is unconstitutional and won’t hold up in a court of law. One video I watched said if braced pistols fall under the NFA they can’t legally waive the $200 tax either. By putting a 120 day deadline on it they are going to get as many people as possible to “register” them.

Court eventually deems the ban unconstitutional, and you get to keep your braces. “My bad, sorry you were hassled with registering it.” Same thing as the Covid vaccine/job mandates…
 
i hope it happens and they come after millions of illegal short barreled rifles and then the people totally start a new war against the government under a Democrat instead of handing over their guns for fear of being a felon. I’d love to watch this shit make January 6 look like a Wall Street sit-in.
 
krttrkllr said:
According to the atf you cannot register the firearm in a trust unless it was in a trust prior to the ruling. So, I'm guessing it would need to be registered under an individual. Does this raise any legal issues? Like less paperwork to charge an individual for possession of an sbr? Sorry if it's a dumb question. I'm just not real trusting of the gov...
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I really don’t understand the ‘trust’ thing because I THOUGHT the ‘loophole’ of a trust owning them closed a few years ago. Now everyone in a trust has to be fingerprinted and background checked for anything added where as I THOUGHT before this law you could add and subtract people from an NFA trust for less than another $200/firearm.
 
95stepside said:
So hypothetically, If a person built a pistol lower a while back but never bought a barrel/upper for it, would now be a stupid time to buy one?
Assuming said person had no intentions of registering shit
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Run a bare pistol buffer tube and there should be no issues. The way they wrote the new rifle definition essentially calls anything intended to fired from the shoulder a rifle and that makes the brace a stock. If the firearm is not intended to be fired from the shoulder its not a rifle. The problem is their 6 new factors can easily make any firearm with a brace into a rifle. They don't list what combination of the the 6 makes a rifle though. The weight/length and LOP bullet points I think will be applicable to you. They list a COLT AR-15 as having a 33" overall length, weighing 6lbs and length of pull of 13". The pistol buffer tube will get you way under the LOP for that which in its own "should" show intent to not be shoulder-able. Even if you are just over the 26" for SBR thats 7" shorter than a rifle. The biggest issue I see is #6. it appears they are saying if someone writes an article about a firearm or brace and demonstrates the ability to shoulder it, its a rifle. They reference multiple articles and media in their ruling showing both #5 and #6.

Obviously depending on state laws and where you live is going to change this as well. I've been evaluating it from my POV in CT, as I am building a CT "other". The easiest thing I can see for me is to not run a brace and just a cheek rest or padded buffer, I can also not register a SBR in CT so that's not an option even if I was willing to deal with the BS of owning one.

Accordingly, the Department amends the definition of “rifle” under 27 CFR
478.11 and 479.11 to expressly state that the term “designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” includes a weapon that is equipped
with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a “stabilizing brace”)
that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided
other factors, as listed in the amended regulations and described in this preamble, indicate
that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. The other
factors are:
(1) whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or
length of similarly designed rifles;
(2) whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the
trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component
or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability
to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other
attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;
(3) whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that
require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;
(4) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder
is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component,
or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;
(5) the manufacturer’s direct and indirect marketing and promotional materials
indicating the intended use of the weapon; and
(6) information demonstrating the likely use of the weapon in the general
community.
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Toreadorranger said:
The biggest issue I see is #6. it appears they are saying if someone writes an article about a firearm or brace and demonstrates the ability to shoulder it, its a rifle. They reference multiple articles and media in their ruling showing both #5 and #6.
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I can shoulder a revolver. Gonna hurt when the leaking gas hits my face but I can put it on my shoulder.
 
Tech Tim said:
So is there anything in there that talks about having optics on a pistol could make it a rifle?

Somebody told that to a buddy of mine and he is having an absolute melt-down about pulling all his optics of his pistols so they won't be SBRs.
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It doesn't appear any 1 of the 6 new attributes will trigger the new definition, but they also didn't provide any details on how many would turn a pistol into a rifle either. It sure seems its up to their discretion.
 
Toreadorranger said:
It doesn't appear any 1 of the 6 new attributes will trigger the new definition, but they also didn't provide any details on how many would turn a pistol into a rifle either. It sure seems its up to their discretion.
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There is a mention somewhere in that mess of optics eye box. Basically if you have a scope that would only work when shouldering the rifle it can cause it to be ruled a rifle. Something with a long eye relief, red, dot, etc that works at arms length would be ok
 
kf4zht said:
There is a mention somewhere in that mess of optics eye box. Basically if you have a scope that would only work when shouldering the rifle it can cause it to be ruled a rifle. Something with a long eye relief, red, dot, etc that works at arms length would be ok
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So rifle or pistol? :laughing:

1vYbJg6.jpg
 
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