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Pistol brace ruling - ATF at it again

RunningProblem said:
fingerprints required for everyone in the trust for every NFA item.
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That is what I remember thanks to Obama.

I have one trust with 2 SBR that include family on it prior to that change.

Any new trust items would screw up the current trust as having to fingerprint, etc each family member. So anything going forward would be on a new trust although not sure I see the point as they all live a few states away.

I'm still not following the add braces to a trust aspect so will be re-reading those sections.
 
Weasel said:
That is what I remember thanks to Obama.

I have one trust with 2 SBR that include family on it prior to that change.

Any new trust items would screw up the current trust as having to fingerprint, etc each family member. So anything going forward would be on a new trust although not sure I see the point as they all live a few states away.

I'm still not following the add braces to a trust aspect so will be re-reading those sections.
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The brace itself is not added though... just the lower with sub 16" barrel and brace. The brace is not the serialized item, right?
 
D_JEEPER said:
The brace itself is not added though... just the lower with sub 16" barrel and brace. The brace is not the serialized item, right?
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Correct, they are not regulating braces, just firearms that have them installed or "readily converted"
 
Toreadorranger said:
Correct, they are not regulating braces, just firearms that have them installed or "readily converted"
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So if you have lowers and short barrel uppers in the vicinity of a pistol brace, sounds like it would be legitimate to say those qualify as they would be readily converted. :homer:
 
D_JEEPER said:
So if you have lowers and short barrel uppers in the vicinity of a pistol brace, sounds like it would be legitimate to say those qualify as they would be readily converted. :homer:
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It could, Ill try to find the wording but the ruling mentions something about having all the parts on hand to make a SBR = SBR.
 
Toreadorranger said:
It could, Ill try to find the wording but the ruling mentions something about having all the parts on hand to make a SBR = SBR.
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That's asinine. What you're saying is if you own a 16" barrel AR and a <16" barreled AR pistol with a featureless buffer tube could be construed as constructive intent.
 
posford said:
That's asinine. What you're saying is if you own a 16" barrel AR and a <16" barreled AR pistol with a featureless buffer tube could be construed as constructive intent.
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These logic loops will probably be what kills this "opinion"
 
posford said:
That's asinine. What you're saying is if you own a 16" barrel AR and a <16" barreled AR pistol with a featureless buffer tube could be construed as constructive intent.
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Constructive intent or whatever has been floating around the internet for years. Not sure anyone has ever been charged with it, or if it would hold up in court. Maybe if you had a Glock switch that you insisted was never used they might.

If they are digging that deep to pin something on you it's easier to just drop a baggie of white powder while they are searching.
 
I've heard from a couple FFL's that there is a meeting on Jan. 31, with the atf for the brace stuff. Might be an indication of when it's going to hit the register. Don't know for sure though. Looked up some online gun trust's. Anyone use one or have a recommendation? My oldest son turns 21 this year and would like to add him whether he's interested or not. Just so someone can take possession of them if something happens to me.
 
krttrkllr said:
I've heard from a couple FFL's that there is a meeting on Jan. 31, with the atf for the brace stuff. Might be an indication of when it's going to hit the register. Don't know for sure though. Looked up some online gun trust's. Anyone use one or have a recommendation? My oldest son turns 21 this year and would like to add him whether he's interested or not. Just so someone can take possession of them if something happens to me.
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Fuck a trust. ATF form 5 is what you are looking for.
 
This is who I used, they have good reviews and prompt customer service. They seem to have done their homework on laws in each state regarding trusts, and tailored it to NFA items. I haven’t had an attorney here look it over yet, I had planned to before adding anything to it besides the $2 bill, but time was of the essence so I put both of my ”pistols” in it today.

www.nationalguntrusts.com

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I feel like most attorneys know nothing about firearms, and the generic firearm trust companies don’t know a whole lot about each state’s laws. There was a really good one in TX but he passed away several years ago.
 
Aisin said:
Fuck a trust. ATF form 5 is what you are looking for.
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Curious why you say that. I know a lot of guys do a trust for “my wife knows the safe code and might be construed as possessing stuff that’s not in her name”, but that’s not my primary consideration.

From a future-proofing/estate planing standpoint it is extremely likely that they will try some shit like NFA items or AR-15’s are banned from transfer or sale, with a “grandfather clause” for existing owners. A trust is a means to pass things down to your children in addition to letting them shoot/hunt with stuff once they are 18.
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
Curious why you say that. I know a lot of guys do a trust for “my wife knows the safe code and might be construed as possessing stuff that’s not in her name”, but that’s not my primary consideration.
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Next guy I hear say that is getting kicked in the nuts. I own zero locking gun cabinets. Half of my stuff is sitting next to the bed in the corner. The other half is under the bed. I’m not a fan of trusts after Obongo changed things.
 
Aisin said:
Fuck a trust. ATF form 5 is what you are looking for.
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Thanks, appreciate the education, I've been really slacking. That's the kind of information I've been looking for.
 
Weasel said:
That is what I remember thanks to Obama.

I have one trust with 2 SBR that include family on it prior to that change.

Any new trust items would screw up the current trust as having to fingerprint, etc each family member. So anything going forward would be on a new trust although not sure I see the point as they all live a few states away.

I'm still not following the add braces to a trust aspect so will be re-reading those sections.
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It’s a free short barreled rifle. I really don’t understand people’s love for pistols when a free short barreled rifle is sitting there.
‘I’ll keep using my brace just like a stock. Registering this gets me nothing. I already have enough things registered.’
 
You know how government loves their lists.

When you attempt to register, if and it will be open for more than 3 months / 90 days, enforcement action, = your busted.



 
RunningProblem said:
It’s a free short barreled rifle. I really don’t understand people’s love for pistols when a free short barreled rifle is sitting there.
‘I’ll keep using my brace just like a stock. Registering this gets me nothing. I already have enough things registered.’
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Do you ever cross state lines? Nothing is ever "free".
 
_03_ said:
Do you ever cross state lines? Nothing is ever "free".
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Not with registered NFA items.
My registration here was free. Maybe in a few years they’ll tell people the short barreled rifles now cost the same as everyone else’s. Thankfully the ideas people have about this cost nothing as well.
 
posford said:
That's asinine. What you're saying is if you own a 16" barrel AR and a <16" barreled AR pistol with a featureless buffer tube could be construed as constructive intent.
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I think its more along the lines of you have an AR pistol and have all the parts unassembled to "convert" it to a SBR, not that you can cannibalize other rifles to make one. Still bullshit and very open to interpretation by the ATF, but this entire ruling is that way.
 
RunningProblem said:
It’s a free short barreled rifle. I really don’t understand people’s love for pistols when a free short barreled rifle is sitting there.
‘I’ll keep using my brace just like a stock. Registering this gets me nothing. I already have enough things registered.’
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It's not free and it is a trap. Watch the video above.
 
Constructive possession = is having all of the parts to build a SBR.
 
RunningProblem said:
It’s a free short barreled rifle. I really don’t understand people’s love for pistols when a free short barreled rifle is sitting there.
‘I’ll keep using my brace just like a stock. Registering this gets me nothing. I already have enough things registered.’
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I can cross state lines with a pistol without asking the ATF to give permission. I can carry a pistol in the national forest outside of hunting season. I can keep a loaded pistol in my vehicle. The ATF won't know that I have a pistol.
 
Roverhound said:
I can cross state lines with a pistol without asking the ATF to give permission. I can carry a pistol in the national forest outside of hunting season. I can keep a loaded pistol in my vehicle. The ATF won't know that I have a pistol.
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All this with a suppressor attached.
 
Roverhound said:
I can cross state lines with a pistol without asking the ATF to give permission. I can carry a pistol in the national forest outside of hunting season. I can keep a loaded pistol in my vehicle. The ATF won't know that I have a pistol.
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You act like you have to suck some dicks to cross state lines with an sbr. You mail them 2 forms and they mail them back a few few weeks later. It’s more of a notification.
 
Aisin said:
You act like you have to suck some dicks to cross state lines with an sbr. You mail them 2 forms and they mail them back a few few weeks later. It’s more of a notification.
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I can reach 1 state line in 5 minutes and 2 others in 1.5 hours. I visit all 3 states regularly. Screw submitting anything to travel.
 
PAE said:
Constructive possession = is having all of the parts to build a SBR.
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Prior to this Gestapo witch hunting admin, my understanding of “constructive intent” was if you had all or a majority of the items that couldn’t reasonably be used in any way other than an illegal one. Think of the items to build a bomb. I’m not an expert but many are normal household goods, like ammonia, fertilizer, etc. Add one or two that are “specialties” and it’s a different picture.

Same with the pistols and uppers until now. I have AR rifles, AR pistols, and extra uppers of varying length. So long as you could configure it to something legal it’s not an issue.

I own a car and a bottle of bourbon, does that mean I’m intending to get drunk and drive?
 
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