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MNR 4600 class 2021 U4 Bronco build

a few things
  • limited class racing always is and always will be the most expensive form of racing
  • ford has to spend money to get market share, this run of OEM support will be short lived
  • the u4 class structure is fundamentally retarded, always has been and always will be (thats a rant for another thread)
  • you can whine all you want about the top teams getting all the support, but you quickly forget that loren came out of nowhere and won koh and poured everything into his race program including taking a second on his house. vaughn was a drift champ and leveraged that to build his brand larger in dirt. the lovells, well are racing legends having done it all for over 2 decades. i wouldnt say ford 'buought' the podium, they invested in professionals who deliver results.
  • JR4X's deal of a handful of races as his commitment is very rare. the amount of non-race time to fulfill your contract to cash sponsors rarely pencils out as a win for you.


enough with all the whining, JR4X when are you going to start building this thing?
 
ParadisePWoffrd said:
cost and margins. I have no doubt the designers and engineers want to make awesome parts, but in the end they have to hit cost and margin targets or it doesnt take off. Also, they are building for the 80+%.
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If it was about costs and margins then why does everything need to be electronically actuated and controlled from the canbus? If everything is about costs and margins why don't more SUVs have solid rear axles at least?


ParadisePWoffrd said:
Its all about marketing to peoples desires, and building for reality.
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Exactly. Idiots line up to buy shit for the image. You don't have to produce substance, just the image thereof. So why don't the OEMs pad their pockets by installing a solid rear axle in the back of random crossovers and pocket the difference? Not like Karen can tell the difference in how it handles.
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
a car steering rack in it and naturally it has issue. GM and H2 guys are all, "I told ya so!".
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So much this, people act like the bronco was the first IFS vehicle to have tie rod and rack issues, THEY ALL HAVE ISSUES!
Look at IFS U4 cars, until they got those $$$$$$$$ racks from mckenzies and other places, they always broke racks (Still do too).

Everyone on this website was sad the bronco got IFS, I am shocked that we are still talking about it. 99.9999% of bronco owners will not take it off road will benefit from the IFS on road manners, that sells cars.

I still have hope Ford Performance will come out with a SAS kit, but at what cost would that be, 10K-15K?
 
mobil1syn said:
limited class racing always is and always will be the most expensive form of racing
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While I agree on most accounts, it seems, from my non-racer standpoint, that UTV and 6100 are doing a pretty good job of limiting cost. Yes, they're still expensive, but it seems like they aren't spiraling up in cost like class 10 or something like that.
 
Jeffh555 said:
While I agree on most accounts, it seems, from my non-racer standpoint, that UTV and 6100 are doing a pretty good job of limiting cost. Yes, they're still expensive, but it seems like they aren't spiraling up in cost like class 10 or something like that.
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WTF ???

Have you priced a 6100 car lately ?
 
arse_sidewards said:
If it was about costs and margins then why does everything need to be electronically actuated and controlled from the canbus? If everything is about costs and margins why don't more SUVs have solid rear axles at least?
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Your government mandated it:

2008: All cars sold in the United States are required to use the ISO 15765-4 signaling standard (a variant of the Controller Area Network (CAN) bus).
 
Racks can work just fine. Toyota started using them in 96. Mine has 345k miles the last 100k with bigger tires. Just replaced the ends.
 
Bebop said:
WTF ???

Have you priced a 6100 car lately ?
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I'm not in the market, so I'm not gonna call TSCO and price out a new one, but I just checked RDC classifieds, and confirmed, yes, they're expensive, as I said. Inflation is a bitch, but are they really getting more expensive like a competitive 4600/4800 car is getting more expensive?

My friends that race 4800 are basically saying the older 4800 cars aren't competitive, because the new cars are so good, and you effectively need a whole new car to be competitive. I think that continues to grow in the next few years.

While a ZJ may have been a competitive and cheap 4600 car a few years ago, they aren't anymore, as this thread shows.

It seems like 6100 has kept the cost of racing limited, limited to a high number, but not growing. If you look at Class 10 for example, they've historically spend metric shit tons of money to eek out every last bit of performance. As people developed new motors and tires (and other parts) to gain a competitive advantage, the rest of the field needs to make those upgrades also. These lightweight and high performance parts are expensive and lightweight and have to be replaced more frequently, so your prep is more expensive and you need to be constantly upgrading to the latest (expensive) shit. From the people I've talked to in the TT world, there's a trend in 6100 to basically have a full TT, but with the spec motor in it, so the truck is pretty durable and doesn't need crazy amount of prep (relative to limited classes). Besides the rule change a couple years ago (40s and underdrive) the trucks are all similarly competitive. This is all relative to the other high level off-road racing (TT, C1, C10, 4400).

There's a reason they say the best way to become a millionaire in motorsports is to start with a 10 million. It's expensive, I'm not saying any of it is cheap, I'm saying some of the classes control cost better than other classes.
 
Jeffh555 said:
It seems like 6100 has kept the cost of racing limited, limited to a high number, but not growing.
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I would disagree, but hey, just my opinion.

YotaAtieToo said:
Racks can work just fine. Toyota started using them in 96. Mine has 345k miles the last 100k with bigger tires. Just replaced the ends.
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Under offroad abuse, racks suck ass. Even TTs with unlimited budgets are going away from them
 
Sterlingfire said:
If you want a true competition that can't be bought by deep pockets almost every time, all the vehicles need to be the same with the exact same mods. Nothing more nothing less. It won't happen as this won't bring sponsorship money to the sanctioning body...
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It seems like Robby Gordon has figured that out, the SST trucks are all the same. The trick is that he owns them all, so it's not the rules that keep the playing field level. I think as long as guys are building/commissioning their own race cars, they're gonna be a way to throw money at it and get a competitive advantage.

2big bronco said:
A claimer class could work. Make it $25k and incentivise doing so. Buy a car, free spot in koh.

Now I dont think it would actually work but maybe
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Why wouldn't a claimer class work? Typically don't you have to be a racer to claim an opponent's car?
 
Jeffh555 said:
It seems like Robby Gordon has figured that out, the SST trucks are all the same. The trick is that he owns them all, so it's not the rules that keep the playing field level. I think as long as guys are building/commissioning their own race cars, they're gonna be a way to throw money at it and get a competitive advantage.



Why wouldn't a claimer class work? Typically don't you have to be a racer to claim an opponent's car?
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claimer , like claim a entire car, no way, peoples time is worth way more than $$$ of a claim. engine claim is a thing in dirt track racing, but i dont think that would work here at all. too many differences
 
Jeffh555 said:
I'm sure my opinion is missing something, what class does a better job of limiting cost increases?
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1600

YotaAtieToo said:
Thats an extreme example, is there even a single oem part on a TT these days.
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No.

I'm just saying that a rack and pinion will always suck compared a gearbox.
Whether you're comparing OEM parts or TT full race shit.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
claimer , like claim a entire car, no way, peoples time is worth way more than $$$ of a claim. engine claim is a thing in dirt track racing, but i dont think that would work here at all. too many differences
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Thats why I put the claimer price up at $25000. Its up to the racer to decide the level of effort they want to put into the car. Could be a 20r leaf sprung toyota or an old we-rock rig they just bought for 20k
 
because im a jerk

ED770EFA-2423-495E-AF59-C3810FA6D298.jpeg
 
Bebop said:
I would disagree, but hey, just my opinion.

Under offroad abuse, racks suck ass. Even TTs with unlimited budgets are going away from them
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You are correct that 6100 is no longer very cost competitive. It started well then people wanted more power and bigger tires to go fast, etc and costs piled up.

And also correct on the TT racks, have seen 3 supposed 6100 TT rack break and it's no surprise. They seem to be very underbuilt, and the last one was a full Howe unit.


There are some classes that are good at controlling costs.
 
Sterlingfire said:
He'll need to start a new thread at this point:lmao:
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Nah, no such thing as bad press. Traffic of any kind in this thread is only a good for our efforts. I just recently found out there are some pretty big eyes following/lurking this thread.


I wouldn’t have anything to do with a claimer class.
 
Winchested said:
Your government mandated it:

2008: All cars sold in the United States are required to use the ISO 15765-4 signaling standard (a variant of the Controller Area Network (CAN) bus).
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Nobody said you need to have power seats and nobody said that if you do you need to put them on the bus.

Like I said, look at the 3rd world models and the work vans. They have the same canbus yet that doesn’t stop them from putting solid axles and manual seats, etc. in them. If it was actually cheaper to slap a bunch of shit on the bus you already have that’s how they would build cars for cost sensitive markets.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Nobody said you need to have power seats and nobody said that if you do you need to put them on the bus.

Like I said, look at the 3rd world models and the work vans. They have the same canbus yet that doesn’t stop them from putting solid axles and manual seats, etc. in them. If it was actually cheaper to slap a bunch of shit on the bus you already have that’s how they would build cars for cost sensitive markets.
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And if they made a true base model bronco... manual everything id probably order one of those in adition to the pimped out one I have.
 
Bebop said:
1600



No.

I'm just saying that a rack and pinion will always suck compared a gearbox.
Whether you're comparing OEM parts or TT full race shit.
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Maybe, but that doesn't mean a rack can't work fine for the intended use.

If you're putting portals and a D80 under it, I'm sure you can figure out how to either make the rack live or put a box on it.

Is the aluminum Jeep JL box any better with out something like hydro assist taking most of the load?

People act like the bronco is so weak out of the box, yet almost every jeep on the trail has barely anything oem left.
 
How's the build coming? How much factory stuff is getting thrown out? Brakes? Wiring Harness? Using a stand alone motor harness and getting rid of the miles of factory wiring seems like a win compared to being stuck with a mix of factory stuff.
 
barrelroll said:
How's the build coming? How much factory stuff is getting thrown out? Brakes? Wiring Harness? Using a stand alone motor harness and getting rid of the miles of factory wiring seems like a win compared to being stuck with a mix of factory stuff.
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Haven’t really gotten started into it yet. It’s time though. I’ve got an appointment with a guy who builds cages. He’s going to come stay with me for a couple weeks around thanksgiving and we’re going to cage it out. So I have to have it stripped by then. I’ve just been gathering parts so we have stuff to stick on it when it’s ready.

Edit: forgot to answer the question. We’re replacing 100% of the suspension and drivetrain including the brakes. The portals only fit some pretty specific brake parts. I really want try to keep the exterior camera system working but I don’t know if we’re good enough at the electrical part to pull that off
 
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