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MNR 4600 class 2021 U4 Bronco build

Wasn't the original intent to try to actually reduce the cost to the average racer? If you had to race a jeep with stock axles you'd be spending quite a bit every race in broken parts and probably having to constantly find donor axles to then beef up somehow. Instead you could just swap in a D60 and be done. Bolt on portals could work the same way, buy once, cry once. Too bad they are so expensive.

No matter what you do your never going to keep the big budget teams from winning. You can write the rules however you like, but in the end the team with the best support is most likely the team that will be on top.
 
Based on comments over time, For 4600 I think Dave always hoped he would have OEMs battling it out. Bare minimum hope was the aftermarket showing up with vehicles loaded with their parts.

I think the XJ vs Toyota mini truck battles was just what showed up before the main course arrived.
 
JohnnyJ said:
Based on comments over time, For 4600 I think Dave always hoped he would have OEMs battling it out. Bare minimum hope was the aftermarket showing up with vehicles loaded with their parts.

I think the XJ vs Toyota mini truck battles was just what showed up before the main course arrived.
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That’s pretty accurate summary. Hard to balance the want of OEM backing with the little guy too.
 
Pickuptrucker said:
It would be cool if more OEMs got involved, more battle
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Agreed there. I’d love to see an OEM class and regular Stock class too.

Jeep kinda did their run with the Gladiator and 392 JK/JL without it being an outright Ford type deal and rode off into the sunset.
 
You know one thing I haven’t mentioned yet and probably should. I was a total D bag about the new Bronco having IFS and not a straight front axle. I was so let down and kinda angry about it. Before the release Ford put it in writing that their primary goal with the Bronco was to take market share from Jeep and the wrangler would be its main competitor.

I thought with Jeep running completely uncontested in their market with a SFA ford would be smart enough to make one but better. Brad Lovell whom I am casual acquaintance with is on the engineering team that built and tested these. I offended him personally with my negative comments about the independent suspension.

Now I’m eating crow because they made something that works great. These little things are actually good in the rocks but way better everywhere else where speed is desired. Stable compact and light. Somehow Brad is still cool with me which is a good thing because he’s got a lot of good knowledge to share. These little things aren’t just a little faster or more durable than a Jeep, it’s by a pretty big margin. Brad Vaughn and Bailey are passing the podium 4500 cars in some races.
 
JR4X said:
These little things aren’t just a little faster or more durable than a Jeep, it’s by a pretty big margin. Brad Vaughn and Bailey are passing the podium 4500 cars in some races.
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Having an almost unlimited R&D budget plays heavily into that. It ain't the Bronco.....
 
JohnnyJ said:
I think the XJ vs Toyota mini truck battles was just what showed up before the main course arrived.
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But that's what most really want to see. I still watch the XJ vs Toy over the Factory prepped Broncos

Pickuptrucker said:
It would be cool if more OEMs got involved, more battle
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But the only place that really happens is in pavement. Even in baja there were understanding who would be allowed to run and win in classes for a certain time period. Tire companies still do this.

SLOWPOKE693 said:
Having an almost unlimited R&D budget plays heavily into that. It ain't the Bronco.....
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No Kidding.

Now they are cool cars absolutely but lets see an actual normal stock build one does.
 
JR4X said:
You know one thing I haven’t mentioned yet and probably should. I was a total D bag about the new Bronco having IFS and not a straight front axle. I was so let down and kinda angry about it. Before the release Ford put it in writing that their primary goal with the Bronco was to take market share from Jeep and the wrangler would be its main competitor.

I thought with Jeep running completely uncontested in their market with a SFA ford would be smart enough to make one but better. Brad Lovell whom I am casual acquaintance with is on the engineering team that built and tested these. I offended him personally with my negative comments about the independent suspension.

Now I’m eating crow because they made something that works great. These little things are actually good in the rocks but way better everywhere else where speed is desired. Stable compact and light. Somehow Brad is still cool with me which is a good thing because he’s got a lot of good knowledge to share. These little things aren’t just a little faster or more durable than a Jeep, it’s by a pretty big margin. Brad Vaughn and Bailey are passing the podium 4500 cars in some races.
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I don't mean to derail your thread too much, but I followed the Ford cock tease that was the release of the new Bronco for 16 years. When they finally announced they were really really going to do it this time, I got excited because I was finally at the point in my life I could comfortably afford to buy a new 4x4. When I saw the first spy shots confirming it was going to be IFS, I completely lost interest. Between the IFS and lack of a V8 for the first time ever in a Bronco (not including Bronco IIs), I think Ford missed the mark.

As someone who wheels an IFS rig, I still don't understand what's supposedly special about the non-Raptor Bronco's IFS other than having a locker and sway bar disconnect :confused: They still have limited articulation compared to a solid axle, and normal people are breaking tie rods, steering racks, and axle shafts in situations where Jeeps generally aren't. Even the suspension travel is only marginally better than other midsize IFS systems that have been around for decades.

Sure, when you have factory support, top-level pro drivers, and a factor of 2-4x the money into the vehicle build than all the other cars in the class, they are going to be impressive and dominate. I am really curious to see how "normal" guys with day jobs paying their own way do in the new Broncos, so I am following closely to see how you, Atteberry, and whoever it was that got the third one do when you get them finished.

I think an unlimited manufacturers class (think '60s Nascar) with homologation rules would be awesome. Basically if they want to run certain engines, size tires/shocks, they need to sell X number of vehicles to the public so equipped :grinpimp: For instance, a bone stock Bronco Raptor is currently illegal in the 4600 class due to its tire size and the fact that it has 3.1" diameter internal bypass shocks. Let's see the manufacturers take the gloves off and see what they can really do! Of course, someone besides Ford would have to participate too; maybe larger aftermarket part companies could get involved. 4600 (or create a new class) should be a relatively low-barrier to entry class for people who are just getting into the sport or do not have the skill or resources to compete at a higher level. I don't see how a person who isn't independently wealthy and just starting out in racing is supposed to progress very far in the sport if they have no chance of being competitive. Maybe if you are killer at the social media aspect of things sponsors won't care that you suck, but it seems like the series should be more interested in promoting talent than self-promoters. Regardless, I can't wait until I finish my pile so I can see how fast these Broncos are from the drivers seat :dustin:

I still don't think portals should belong in the stock class unless factory equipped :flipoff2:
 
'84 Bronco II said:
I don't mean to derail your thread too much, but I followed the Ford cock tease that was the release of the new Bronco for 16 years. When they finally announced they were really really going to do it this time, I got excited because I was finally at the point in my life I could comfortably afford to buy a new 4x4. When I saw the first spy shots confirming it was going to be IFS, I completely lost interest. Between the IFS and lack of a V8 for the first time ever in a Bronco (not including Bronco IIs), I think Ford missed the mark.

As someone who wheels an IFS rig, I still don't understand what's supposedly special about the non-Raptor Bronco's IFS other than having a locker and sway bar disconnect :confused: They still have limited articulation compared to a solid axle, and normal people are breaking tie rods, steering racks, and axle shafts in situations where Jeeps generally aren't. Even the suspension travel is only marginally better than other midsize IFS systems that have been around for decades.
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Id say they work 90% as as a stock rubicon in the rocks, 150% better in high speed stuff and 200% better on road.

The fact that you can get them on 35s stock and build to hold 37s with minimal work puts them a ways ahead of a 4 runner imo... not to mention more wheel travel. They also have 30 more hp and 50 more torques the a 4 runner.


Now I am biased as I own one but I really had my doubts when I picked it up. So far it just flat out works extremely well.
 
2big bronco said:
Id say they work 90% as as a stock rubicon in the rocks, 150% better in high speed stuff and 200% better on road.

The fact that you can get them on 35s stock and build to hold 37s with minimal work puts them a ways ahead of a 4 runner imo... not to mention more wheel travel. They also have 30 more hp and 50 more torques the a 4 runner.


Now I am biased as I own one but I really had my doubts when I picked it up. So far it just flat out works extremely well.
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Definitely better than a 4Runner, no argument there :laughing:

My father is making noises about ordering a '23 Badlands as a new daily driver and eventual replacement for his '05 LJ, so I guess I might get to experience one first hand soon*




*Probably in a year or more based on the delivery horror stories I've been reading :flipoff2:
 
If you want a true competition that can't be bought by deep pockets almost every time, all the vehicles need to be the same with the exact same mods. Nothing more nothing less. It won't happen as this won't bring sponsorship money to the sanctioning body...
 
IROC racing did it and i will say it was kinda boring after a little while actually. you need the creative minds in each team to push the rules to limit and see what they can develop.

and i also think it would be awesome to just use bone stock vehicles as they come off the floor to see how they handle. good points for sure :beer:
 
Sterlingfire said:
If you want a true competition that can't be bought by deep pockets almost every time, all the vehicles need to be the same with the exact same mods. Nothing more nothing less. It won't happen as this won't bring sponsorship money to the sanctioning body...
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The reason I race Ultra4 instead of other organizations is because of the freedom to try different things. I have no interest in spec class shit. I want the freedom to play with engine choice, tuning, shocks springs, etc. We don’t have deep pockets, we can’t compete with these guys on pre run time because we all work so much to afford this. The good part about this is we can pick up a few advantages here and there by having the freedom to do so.
 
Sterlingfire said:
If you want a true competition that can't be bought by deep pockets almost every time, all the vehicles need to be the same with the exact same mods. Nothing more nothing less. It won't happen as this won't bring sponsorship money to the sanctioning body...
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A claimer class could work. Make it $25k and incentivise doing so. Buy a car, free spot in koh.

Now I dont think it would actually work but maybe
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
It ran in a prerunner class and finished 3rd. How many cars were in the class? If it was only 3 or 4 that isn't special. Anybody know how many vehicles were in that class?
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I counted 9 in the PreRun Truck category.
www.norra.com

NORRA

NORRA: National Off-Road Racing Association, Home of the Mexican 1000 Rally
www.norra.com www.norra.com
1667401360820.png
 
JR4X said:
The reason I race Ultra4 instead of other organizations is because of the freedom to try different things. I have no interest in spec class shit. I want the freedom to play with engine choice, tuning, shocks springs, etc. We don’t have deep pockets, we can’t compete with these guys on pre run time because we all work so much to afford this. The good part about this is we can pick up a few advantages here and there by having the freedom to do so.
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I fully understand why having freedom to build what you want is more appealing to both the racers and the fans alike. I'm just making the point that there's no way to have all the cars in same realm of ability unless you run a spec class. I think it could get boring for the fans if all the cars were the same... you'd have the same guys on the podium every time, the only thing that could change that is breakage.
 
JR4X said:
You know one thing I haven’t mentioned yet and probably should. I was a total D bag about the new Bronco having IFS and not a straight front axle. I was so let down and kinda angry about it. Before the release Ford put it in writing that their primary goal with the Bronco was to take market share from Jeep and the wrangler would be its main competitor.

I thought with Jeep running completely uncontested in their market with a SFA ford would be smart enough to make one but better. Brad Lovell whom I am casual acquaintance with is on the engineering team that built and tested these. I offended him personally with my negative comments about the independent suspension.

Now I’m eating crow because they made something that works great. These little things are actually good in the rocks but way better everywhere else where speed is desired. Stable compact and light. Somehow Brad is still cool with me which is a good thing because he’s got a lot of good knowledge to share. These little things aren’t just a little faster or more durable than a Jeep, it’s by a pretty big margin. Brad Vaughn and Bailey are passing the podium 4500 cars in some races.
Click to expand...
I guess I wasn't let down. I knew they wouldn't do a solid axle, hell I'm pretty sure the next jeep wrangler will be IFS. I also knew the IFS would be a clusterfuck. Thats the only way OEMs know how to do it. Sure enough it comes out and instead of using their 20+ years of offroad racing experience, they stick basically a car steering rack in it and naturally it has issue. GM and H2 guys are all, "I told ya so!".

What was even more fun was watching all the hype. You basically had car reviewers that don't wheel, or ford fan boys, and both were claiming IFS to be the greatest thing. Loren Healy's ranger truck was interesting and he was really pushing the IFS hype with it, except when you look at it, the IFS had nothing to do with a stock ranger. It was a full on custom IFS. No shitty car steering rack to be found.

Don't worry, its not just a ford problem. When jeep does get around to making an IFS system for the wrangler, it'll be a mess too.
 
arse_sidewards said:
This is at the root of so, so many things that are shitty about modern vehicles.
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cost and margins. I have no doubt the designers and engineers want to make awesome parts, but in the end they have to hit cost and margin targets or it doesnt take off. Also, they are building for the 80+%. Offroaders of the new bronco, likely fall into the sub-5% of customer, including all of the influencers. They market it in such a way to make ppl dream. None of us would think the Kia Telluride was an offroad vehicle, but the main ad their ran, showed it in the dirt. Its all about marketing to peoples desires, and building for reality.
 
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