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Libertarians- “keep getting your 3% every four years”

ApeEater said:
There's still borders. There's still an immigration process. There's still background checks.

It doesn't need to be so difficult to immigrate here. We just shouldn't be writing any of them checks when they come here broke.
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can't have "open boarders" and have a border and a process... that's illogical at best.

Why should it be easy to immigrate to ANY country?
 
Motorcharge said:
I know, I was speaking broadly. People get hung up on the whole "contributing to society" thing as some boomer bullshit of a mandatory 9-5 or you're worthless.
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I think that's some of the deep seated animosity of people coming here illegally, they are viewed as "they have it (perceived) easier thus I don't like them". Easier meaning they are usually working under the table and not paying income taxes, while collecting off the system, and shit like that. Hence the boomer mentality of "I'm a good tax paying American" while ignoring the fact that the nation was founded by a bunch of people pissed off about having to pay taxes. I try to look at it as, "why the fuck am I forced to pay for all this bullshit I didn't sign up for, want, use, or need" and get mad at the systems in place forcing that not necessarily the people gameing it. I'm obviously excluding Salvadorian gangs and shit coming across the boarder to wreak havoc, I'm strictly talking about Juan who wants to have a better life.
 
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east_beast said:
I'm back to considering voting for RFK even though there's plenty of his policy I don't support. Seems like throwing a vote to a 3rd party candidate making real noise might be the least of the evils presented. If I don't vote for RFK it's gonna be a Dave Smith write in.
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You go girl, that will show them. :laughing:

Gaff off Trumps promises to throw the Libertarian party a bone by electing them to high level positions in his administration and pardoning their drug hero Ross Ulbricht. Not to mention actions mutually shared with conservatives like pardoning jan 6 rioters, continuing to stay out of wars, and lowering taxes. Yeah vote for the radical lefty, thats the lesser of evils presented alright….:homer:
 
Slander said:
If you have food and shelter
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who defines that? You?

libertarians have a need and desire for gov't while claiming they have no need for government.

I agree with your idea of focusing local, btw...
 
rockota said:
who defines that? You?

libertarians have a need and desire for gov't while claiming they have no need for government.

I agree with your idea of focusing local, btw...
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I don't define shit, it's either you are working (or like in motorcharges example independently wealthy, or trapping squirrels and living in the woods) to have food or shelter, or you are starving and dieing in the streets. I don't care either way, kind of like anything adult related.
 
rockota said:
and who defines what or how one contributes?
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If you are putting in more than you’re taking out…that’s contributing.

And in the perfect libertarian idea, with no socialistic policies… not a high bar.
 
Slander said:
I think that's some of the deep seated animosity of people coming here illegally, they are viewed as "they have it (perceived) easier thus I don't like them". Easier meaning they are usually working under the table and not paying income taxes, while collecting off the system, and shit like that. Hence the boomer mentality of "I'm a good tax paying American" while ignoring the fact that the nation was founded by a bunch of people pissed off about having to pay taxes. I try to look at as, "why the fuck am I forced to pay for all this bullshit I didn't sign up for, want, use, or need" and get mad at the systems in place forcing that not necessarily the people gameing it. I'm obviously excluding Salvadorian gangs and shit coming across the boarder to wreak havoc, I'm strictly talking about Juan who wants to have a better life.
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Eh, I fall into both camps on this one. I'm not as pissed off about Juan working under the table and not paying taxes as I am the other scenarios, but I'm not in favor of it either and fine with the government doing more to discourage it. And by the government doing more I just mean actually enforcing existing law.

I do think there should be limits to the amount of people we let in. At least as long as we don't have a true open market economy. Flooding the market, especially a rigged one with cheap labor doesn't benefit anyone but the people controlling the market. Illegals completely destroyed standards of living in the trades to the point it got so bad companies had no choice but to start increasing pay just to get people back into the work force. Boomers love to point and say the youth are lazy, but who can blame them for not wanting to kill themselves in trade work to make pennies on the dollar vs pretty much anything else. People love to point at Juan and say he works harder than everyone else. Juan doesn't work harder, he works more hours for less pay and does shit work and now the industry standard for quality has been lowered to the levels of where ever the fuck it is Juan came from. I don't blame Juan for coming here for a better life when the system allows it, but I don't like it either because it just keeps making things worse.
 
Motorcharge said:
Eh, I fall into both camps on this one. I'm not as pissed off about Juan working under the table and not paying taxes as I am the other scenarios, but I'm not in favor of it either and fine with the government doing more to discourage it. And by the government doing more I just mean actually enforcing existing law.

I do think there should be limits to the amount of people we let in. At least as long as we don't have a true open market economy. Flooding the market, especially a rigged one with cheap labor doesn't benefit anyone but the people controlling the market. Illegals completely destroyed standards of living in the trades to the point it got so bad companies had no choice but to start increasing pay just to get people back into the work force. Boomers love to point and say the youth are lazy, but who can blame them for not wanting to kill themselves in trade work to make pennies on the dollar vs pretty much anything else. People love to point at Juan and say he works harder than everyone else. Juan doesn't work harder, he works more hours for less pay and does shit work and now the industry standard for quality has been lowered to the levels of where ever the fuck it is Juan came from. I don't blame Juan for coming here for a better life when the system allows it, but I don't like it either because it just keeps making things worse.
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For sure and that's the whole system I'm talking about. If we are going to have laws and a "nation" let's get it together and start treating it as such. Right now we are in this weird anarcho tyranny, arms producer and war financer for the globe, all while the country is imploding shitshow.
 
grumpy356 said:
If you are putting in more than you’re taking out…that’s contributing.

And in the perfect libertarian idea, with no socialistic policies… not a high bar.
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someone has to define it... definitions matter... who arbitrates?

is someone who is independently wealthy "putting in"?
 
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ApeEater said:
So, the market worked. Good.
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No it didn't, the market circled back around when it had no other choice. Wages didn't get lower due to natural market demand, they were driven down intentionally by illegal labor.

edit: To clarify, you can't consider it a market correction driven by the market when the government has it rigged so that once class of people has to play be different rules than another. The market didn't work, it didn't correct as a result of fair competition in an open market. It corrected because the consequences of government interference were so bad it had no other choice.
 
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Slander said:


Interested to hear Dave's breakdown on how that fuck tard chase got nominated as the party's presidential candidate.
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You havent figured it out yet? The powers that be within the libertarian party know they have no chance of fielding a candidate with even half a chance in hell getting more than 3% of the vote. They finally realized how bad their fucking nonsense fucked the country in 2020. So this year in order to prevent that they picked a candidate that is such a distasteful pathetic douchebag that only the stupidest of libertarians would vote for him. The rest that will still vote, will pick Trump over the senile asshat because it will "be their choice" and they arent forced to by their party backing Trump. Fucking libertarians are so fucking stubbornly stupid theyd burn the world just to prove a point rather than bend a little and pick the slightly better choice that could win.
 
45acp said:
Why am I giving someone power over my child when I simply think law enforcement should arrest someone for abusing a child?
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in this political climate?

"refusing the vax is child abuse"
"refusing your """trans child's""" surgery demands is child abuse"

Remember, you're a domestic terrorist and have been for the last decade at least. The state is not on your side in any way shape or form.
 
Wenzel said:
Control, perhaps NOT... but coercion, YES. Coercion by making demands and threatening to remove privileges and/ or rights.
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what part of 'initiating coercion is always wrong' do you disagree with?

I can't think of a single situation where being the first to coerce is excusable
 
Slander said:
I don't define shit, it's either you are working (or like in motorcharges example independently wealthy, or trapping squirrels and living in the woods) to have food or shelter, or you are starving and dieing in the streets. I don't care either way, kind of like anything adult related.
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private roads, bums are trespassing and would be ejected the way they came from
private land, someone trapping squirrels is either a poacher or there with permission of the land owner
 
rockota said:
someone has to define it... definitions matter... who arbitrates?

is someone who is independently wealthy "putting in"?
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Okay, let's back up a few steps.
Every noncoercive transaction is mutually beneficial. I want money to buy food with, so I agree to work for someone offering money for labor. Both benefit and if either decides the deal is no longer worthwhile then a renegotiation will happen.

economics is extremely simple if you can step back from the coercion we've been bathed in all our lives
 
Slander said:
Same. However my dad, who has been in software his whole life, said to never trust that guy as tech executives are all liars.
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Hell, pretty much all execs are liars. Most all of them climbed the skeletons of those they stabbed in the back to get to the top. That's been my experience anyway.
 
Stuck said:
You havent figured it out yet? The powers that be within the libertarian party know they have no chance of fielding a candidate with even half a chance in hell getting more than 3% of the vote. They finally realized how bad their fucking nonsense fucked the country in 2020. So this year in order to prevent that they picked a candidate that is such a distasteful pathetic douchebag that only the stupidest of libertarians would vote for him. The rest that will still vote, will pick Trump over the senile asshat because it will "be their choice" and they arent forced to by their party backing Trump. Fucking libertarians are so fucking stubbornly stupid theyd burn the world just to prove a point rather than bend a little and pick the slightly better choice that could win.
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could you fedpost any harder?
 
Stuck said:
You havent figured it out yet? The powers that be within the libertarian party know they have no chance of fielding a candidate with even half a chance in hell getting more than 3% of the vote. They finally realized how bad their fucking nonsense fucked the country in 2020. So this year in order to prevent that they picked a candidate that is such a distasteful pathetic douchebag that only the stupidest of libertarians would vote for him. The rest that will still vote, will pick Trump over the senile asshat because it will "be their choice" and they arent forced to by their party backing Trump. Fucking libertarians are so fucking stubbornly stupid theyd burn the world just to prove a point rather than bend a little and pick the slightly better choice that could win.
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Damn those libertarians and their actual logical soundness! :laughing:

Trump has four years and really honestly just got exposed for being full of hot air. Talked a big game. Accomplished very little.
 
east_beast said:
Damn those libertarians and their actual logical soundness! :laughing:

Trump has four years and really honestly just got exposed for being full of hot air. Talked a big game. Accomplished very little.
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Why don't you run and show us how it's done, or are you just full of hot air?
 
Motorcharge said:
If wouldn't surprise me if he got a high position in the Trump admin and ran again in 2028. He and Trump have been real close since he dropped out. VP or Sec of State wouldn't surprise me and I think some real national exposure in a cabinet position would make him a shoe in in 2028. For being an unknown name, and a funny sounding Indian one at that, he did exceptionally well, especially considering it was never going to be anyone but Trump.
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This right here, give him some time and see what he does. I would love to see him as President Trumps VP and I would 100% back him for President next go round.
 
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