Know when to hold ‘em know when to fold em

[fl0w3n]

No personal experience with 6.4s but from everything I’ve heard I would not be banking on the same luck after spending money on it. Sounds like you hit the jackpot, what’s the chance you’re going to double down and hit it again after throwing $20k at it?

You’re attached to it and see the value in it, but I think the mass majority of people out there think the 6.4 is garbage so even if you threw $20k at it, ran into issues, eventually decide to cut your losses and get out then, I doubt you’re getting $10k for it. You’re back to square one with less money.

I only read your first post, so if you’re against the 6.7 then why not Cummins swap it.

Otherwise, my vote is 15+ 6.7
I’ve liked both my 2015 and 2021 6.7s. I wish they weren’t so damn jam packed in there, but oh well.

 

[Gbkeith]

Both actually, but I figured he needs high capacity axle doesn't necessarily need tow tech

Huh. I was just trying to figure out the weird option pricing. Beats me.

 

[fl0w3n]

The 6.7 doesn’t touch the parameters my 6.4 does. I borrowed the 6.7 version of my truck to tow my trailer to Disney Oklahoma for the finals. 26 psi max boost and having to back out of it on hills for EGT’s. Way to easy to hit 1400°.

My 6.4 does 44 psi at 1140 EGT all day. Until I got a tired turbo I never had to let off for skyrocketing EGT’s. I’ve put over 100K on this truck with 498 rear wheel hp. It takes a lot of secondary investment to get a 6.7 to that place. The 5 speed split just seems to do what I’m asking of it better.

This sounds like old truck talk.

Buy a 20+ 6.7 and you drive it. If that doesn’t tow what you want, you go class 8 or something.

 

[CarterKraft]

This sounds like old truck talk.

Buy a 20+ 6.7 and you drive it. If that doesn’t tow what you want, you go class 8 or something.

I don't have any idea what my EGT is
But I'm not hot rodded or anything.

It's smart to watch it for sure and it might be the reason he has had good luck with it.

 

[fl0w3n]

I don't have any idea what my EGT is
But I'm not hot rodded or anything.

It's smart to watch it for sure and it might be the reason he has had good luck with it.

Exactly, a stock truck will pull the loads in the picture with ease. The truck monitors EGTs and derates as needed.

Possibly, although I really think it’s luck combined with good maintenance regimen.

have you driven the 10spd? It’s a massive difference above the 6spd. I had some issues with mine but I think it’s isolated to how abused my truck is. I got to 287 on the trans before I pulled over 🤣 a coolant bypass valve had clogged up, Ford replaced under warranty and it’s been ok for the past 10k ish miles

 

[CarterKraft]

Exactly, a stock truck will pull the loads in the picture with ease. The truck monitors EGTs and derates as needed.

Possibly, although I really think it’s luck combined with good maintenance regimen.

have you driven the 10spd? It’s a massive difference above the 6spd. I had some issues with mine but I think it’s isolated to how abused my truck is. I got to 287 on the trans before I pulled over 🤣 a coolant bypass valve had clogged up, Ford replaced under warranty and it’s been ok for the past 10k ish miles

I'm gonna try to not fuck up Jr's thread anymore, I have a whole thread of my own to discuss the merits or lack of the 22+ trucks.

New Ford Duallys are 6+ months out?

Stopped in today to order a '22 F350 DRW. New car manager says Duallys are 6+ months out... Ford doesn't plan to have ANY stock until early-mid '23 and all F350 dually and larger are build to order until late '23. I put in my order anyway $500 refundable deposit so we'll see if they actually...

irate4x4.com

 

[1Sinner]

I want a new 6.4 and to have the confidence in the second one that I had in the first one. I’m not confident in anything not having problems these days. If I could get a brand new crate 6.4 assembled by Ford I’d be interested. Any 6.4 from ford now is a reman though and NOT done by FoMoCo. So there’s no reason to go to Ford for it. I don’t benefit from tax breaks. Dad does though because the team is in his name and he pays most of the big expenses.

I know I'm way late to this discussion, but you're one of the only guys I know that haven't had issues with a 6.4. I've had several very close friends that have had those time bombs; both blew em up before 100k, without terrible abuse. Both had rebuilds by a well known 6.4 specialty shop, both had blown engine the second time within another 50k. All others started having severe issues and dumped the vehicles.

I personally say keep the truck, but fummins swap it. 5.9 or 6.7. The inline, from design and engineering characteristics, is a better engine. I'm also a ford guy, and won't trade my 7.3 and ZF6 manual for anything newer. Especially anything that has a cp4 high pressure fuel pump.

Some of these issues could be attributed to crappy California blend biodiesel, but they are also a known poor design.

That being said, the 6.4 is a screaming hot rod when they run right, but when they're done, the block isn't even a useful core due to design characteristics that attempt to shave weight and block integrity for performance.

In the end, your call. If the truck is in good shape, it's worth saving if it's paid off.

 

[JR4X]

I know I'm way late to this discussion, but you're one of the only guys I know that haven't had issues with a 6.4. I've had several very close friends that have had those time bombs; both blew em up before 100k, without terrible abuse. Both had rebuilds by a well known 6.4 specialty shop, both had blown engine the second time within another 50k. All others started having severe issues and dumped the vehicles.

I personally say keep the truck, but fummins swap it. 5.9 or 6.7. The inline, from design and engineering characteristics, is a better engine. I'm also a ford guy, and won't trade my 7.3 and ZF6 manual for anything newer. Especially anything that has a cp4 high pressure fuel pump.

Some of these issues could be attributed to crappy California blend biodiesel, but they are also a known poor design.

That being said, the 6.4 is a screaming hot rod when they run right, but when they're done, the block isn't even a useful core due to design characteristics that attempt to shave weight and block integrity for performance.

In the end, your call. If the truck is in good shape, it's worth saving if it's paid off.

I think that’s exactly the direction I’m going to point in. When I bought the truck I had (still have) a P-pump 12V that I had for another fummins swap. Now that I’ve been most of 8 years with on 700 ish hp under the hood. There’s no way I’ll be satisfied with the same truck with an old Cummins pushing it around. Maybe a common rail pumped up would do me. But I’m going to squeeze as much mileage out of this one as I can unless someone wants to buy it from me when I have it mostly rehabbed. I can’t find another truck with the options this one has in 08-09-10 years. This one has almost everything a King Ranch does except for the rawhide seats.

 

[DMG]

I think that’s exactly the direction I’m going to point in. When I bought the truck I had (still have) a P-pump 12V that I had for another fummins swap. Now that I’ve been most of 8 years with on 700 ish hp under the hood. There’s no way I’ll be satisfied with the same truck with an old Cummins pushing it around. Maybe a common rail pumped up would do me. But I’m going to squeeze as much mileage out of this one as I can unless someone wants to buy it from me when I have it mostly rehabbed. I can’t find another truck with the options this one has in 08-09-10 years. This one has almost everything a King Ranch does except for the rawhide seats.

700 HP? The 6.4 is fast when it runs right but 700 seems high.

 

[JR4X]

700 HP? The 6.4 is fast when it runs right but 700 seems high.

498 rear wheel horsepower, that I can verify. Using the 40% loss rule of thumb number on 700 would put it at 420 wheel hp. No way to know for sure what’s at the flywheel but I know for sure what it got at the tires when it was young fresh and healthy.

 

[1Sinner]

Or..... hear me out....... go with a wild swap. 8-71 Detroit and twin turbos on top of the screws and really make the haters mad Screaming Jimmy!

 

[fl0w3n]

I had 420 wheel HP in my manual ZF6 Duramax... that was a riot

I imagine with your abilities you can coble together a pretty nice Fummins setup. How long can you afford the truck to be down for though?

If you can't afford the down time or don't want to be your own R&D / Warranty Department, I'd be surprised as a (6.4) Ford fan to hear you say bad things about the 6.7 and 10 Speed in 250/350 configuration. There's fixes for the 6.7's downfalls, it just cost coin... but other than that, you just get in it and go. 475hp/1050tq from the factory is hard to argue with

 

[mjlogan88]

Fix whatever you need to in order to get rid of the DTC's, list it stupid high and keep using it in the meantime. Let the market make the decision for you

 

[willis_racing]

There’s no way I’ll be satisfied with the same truck with an old Cummins pushing it around. Maybe a common rail pumped up would do me.

The part about 6.4s that people sometimes gloss over is that they're twin turbo'd. Be sure to compare apples to apples here

The kind of shenanigans some guys can get up to with a properly sized set of compounds on a cummins is frankly insane. You don't buy a cummins because it's the most powerful stock engine ever made. You buy a cummins because the power to usabilty/reliabilty crossover is virtually unbeatable after you pay your blood sacrifice by lighting a pile of $100 bills on fire in the hopes that Clessie himself will bless you with 27mpg and 8000 horsetorques

 

[Ranchtruck]

Have you cleaned the EBP tube & the port into the exhaust where it attaches? Or replaced it? It's like $75 for the tube & sensor. But make sure the fitting into the exhaust is clear.

 

[JR4X]

Have you cleaned the EBP tube & the port into the exhaust where it attaches? Or replaced it? It's like $75 for the tube & sensor. But make sure the fitting into the exhaust is clear.

It’s on its way. I had replaced it once. Pulled it off and inspected it Monday. Not clogged But not re-installing either.

For some mysterious reason this truck doesn’t get soot up there. Almost like my EGR doesn’t function anymore 😉

 

[mobil1syn]

do you really need another project?
will the interior wear out before the replacement motor grendades?
its an appliance, keep it simple

 

[fl0w3n]

do you really need another project?
will the interior wear out before the replacement motor grendades?
its an appliance, keep it simple

Having never actually owned one, I would vote for a 4th gen Ram / Cummins for the reasons you state... but it sounds like that's off the table.

I have half a dozen excuses why I still drive a Ford, but for some reason I have Ram envy

 

[JR4X]

do you really need another project?
will the interior wear out before the replacement motor grendades?
its an appliance, keep it simple

I don’t have a fummins swap project space in my life. If I was going to get a 6.7 Cummins it would be in the tractor it came in. I’d probably suck it up and buy a 6.7 PSD instead though. I’m not towing that bronco to races with a dodge if I can help it

 

[What?]

Play the fucking lottery now.

Too late, used that luck on his 6.4

 

[JR4X]

do you really need another project?
will the interior wear out before the replacement motor grendades?
its an appliance, keep it simple

If I continue to take the same care of it. Here is the drivers seat of the 2010 with 205k miles on it.

And here’s the driver seat of the 2019 work truck with 125K on it.

I wouldn’t want the 19 over the 10 given the different lives they live. The 10 currently has nothing wrong with the interior. Will it last forever? No. But I think it’s got some life left in it.

 

[krttrkllr]

I'm not going to bash the 6.4's they caused me a LOT of heartache in my two International service trucks from 2013-2019 but that's a hard job for that engine and I know several people who had great luck from their 6.4's.

I have a maxxfuk 7 and I feel your pain.

 

[fl0w3n]

Similar to you 2010, I had 200k on my work truck 2015 F150 with cloth and it looked like it had less than 100 on it. After half dozen work truck Fords I think that was finally my turning point to start to like them, that 2015 with the 5.0 was just a good truck and I was surprised at how well it held up with some basic "care". By care I mean actually caring, and then actually caring for it.


Are you up to speed on the latest and greatest on the 6.7 PSD fuel side? S&S announced their DCR pump just recently? That seriously changes the game, and on my 21 I'm contemplating keeping it and at the end of the year near 100K when my extended warranty goes out I may swap in a DCR and an Air Dog lift pump, and probably do something with the engine mounted filter as well. I feel like that would really address the reliability weak points that could hamstring the truck.

 

[Penetrode Offroad]

I didnt see it mentioned, but could a godzilla F2/350 gasser do what you need it to? Or are you only looking at diesel?

 

[JR4X]

I didnt see it mentioned, but could a godzilla F2/350 gasser do what you need it to? Or are you only looking at diesel?

I don’t know. It would probably do it just fine. I test drove one and I just couldn’t stand the non turbo acceleration. But it would probably be the most cost effective solution

 

[Penetrode Offroad]

I don’t know. It would probably do it just fine. I test drove one and I just couldn’t stand the non turbo acceleration. But it would probably be the most cost effective solution

Makes sense.

Wouldnt be cost effective to add a charger on it either... Just wouldnt have the emissions crap on it.

 

[CarterKraft]

Similar to you 2010, I had 200k on my work truck 2015 F150 with cloth and it looked like it had less than 100 on it. After half dozen work truck Fords I think that was finally my turning point to start to like them, that 2015 with the 5.0 was just a good truck and I was surprised at how well it held up with some basic "care". By care I mean actually caring, and then actually caring for it.


Are you up to speed on the latest and greatest on the 6.7 PSD fuel side? S&S announced their DCR pump just recently? That seriously changes the game, and on my 21 I'm contemplating keeping it and at the end of the year near 100K when my extended warranty goes out I may swap in a DCR and an Air Dog lift pump, and probably do something with the engine mounted filter as well. I feel like that would really address the reliability weak points that could hamstring the truck.

I'm gonna let some hours accumulate on that pump....

Building common rail fuel pumps isn't a trivial task.

 

[fl0w3n]

I'm gonna let some hours accumulate on that pump....

Building common rail fuel pumps isn't a trivial task.

Absolutely, however do you know who Luke at S&S is? He worked at Bosch, I believe even on the CP3, before becoming the in-house Bosch design guy or something along those lines for the Cummins / Ram application.

Basically it doesn’t sound like any more qualified of a person could have led the design of the system to replace the CP4 in the Powerstroke.

And from the media they’ve released it sounds like the DCR pump has been in use and has a proven track record outside of the US.

So I definitely agree with you, but all indicators point to it being a success from my research.

 

[CarterKraft]

Absolutely, however do you know who Luke at S&S is? He worked at Bosch, I believe even on the CP3, before becoming the in-house Bosch design guy or something along those lines for the Cummins / Ram application.

Basically it doesn’t sound like any more qualified of a person could have led the design of the system to replace the CP4 in the Powerstroke.

And from the media they’ve released it sounds like the DCR pump has been in use and has a proven track record outside of the US.

So I definitely agree with you, but all indicators point to it being a success from my research.

You saying he worked for the SAME guys that build the CP4???

 

[fl0w3n]

You saying he worked for the SAME guys that build the CP4???

🤣 I listened to an interview and forget the finer details.

He definitely talked about Bosch in the interview 🤷🏻‍♂️