Know when to hold ‘em know when to fold em

[YotaAtieToo]

Dumb old men have been saying that forever. Younger guys who grew up running the new shit and know how to work on the new shit always show up. The difference is that now you're part of the former club.

I'm 35, so I'm right in the middle.

Just one dumb example was the wiper switch going out on our 2015 F150, no big deal, wasn't expensive or hard to replace. But then needed to go to dealer to have a reflash

Same thing with the factory trailer brake controller I replaced, which has also gone out again.

Now that truck is well out of warranty, I need to look more into foreskin not sure if that would have negated the dealer trip or not.

 

[06h3]

Thays what's funny is people constantly fawn over that Era of trucks. The engines them selves may be more reliable, but over all I'm not so sure.

One difference is that those older trucks were far easier for the average guy to fix in their garage.




I kinda wonder if we're there already. I have not seen many emissions issues from around 2017ish on. The issues I have heard were stuff like a Def tank sensor. Not the horrible issues of years past.

My boss buys a new duramax every 3 years or so. For years he would delete egr's then dpf stuff, then Def. He just bought a 2022 and put his 2018 down to shop duty. Everything is still intact on the 18 because it never gave an issue.

I have not heard of any emissions issues on out 5 F550s either. Mine hauls 38k every day, and the other 4 are Porta John trucks, so constant stop and go with a ton of idling.

Biggest issue today is just quality control imo.

From what I have read the issue on emissions isn’t from carrying heavy, it’s from driving the truck like a car. Never towing and rarely doing long distance runs are harder on emissions equipment then hauling 38k daily. Working the engine doesn’t clog up DPFs and crap like that.

Now, from an engine standpoint it’s probably the opposite but not for emissions.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

From what I have read the issue on emissions isn’t from carrying heavy, it’s from driving the truck like a car. Never towing and rarely doing long distance runs are harder on emissions equipment then hauling 38k daily. Working the engine doesn’t clog up DPFs and crap like that.

Now, from an engine standpoint it’s probably the opposite but not for emissions.

That's why I mentioned the pota John trucks, they aren't all that heavy for that engine and chassis. 15-18k lbs iirc and the idle a lot because the pumps are probably.

The boss very rarely tows and lives like 2 miles from the office.

My father in laws 200k mile 17 is mostly used like a car also, lots of idling and highway driving.

 

[chaplinfj60]

if i recall every hour of idle is equal to 30 miles. again i cant remember but its a decent number.

 

[06h3]

Going from a carb / no computer truck to just a pcm, or even a pcm, gem, tcm & abs modules is a hell of alot different thing than to 40-50+ modules such as in a 21+up f150.

I’m 31, and maybe that answers the question because I grew up around the 2004-2010 vehicles. Personally I hate anything with a carb, you have to adjust things, they never seem to run right, they don’t tell you what’s wrong, it’s just wrong or right.

The early days of PCMs and electronics were crap. I think the 7.3 diesel is an example of shitty and stupid electronics. early 90s gassers are the same.

Electronic problems got sorted out, pcms, tcms, SRS of the early 2000s told you what was wrong, there were enough electronics to help you but but not too much.

Today is just a shit show it seems. Like you mention, 8 million modules.

And I’m sure when I’m 70 the kids will look at me and my early 2000s vehicles as dinosaurs and don’t understand why they don’t fix themselves.

 

[Levigarrett76]

I’m 31, and maybe that answers the question because I grew up around the 2004-2010 vehicles. Personally I hate anything with a carb, you have to adjust things, they never seem to run right, they don’t tell you what’s wrong, it’s just wrong or right.

The early days of PCMs and electronics were crap. I think the 7.3 diesel is an example of shitty and stupid electronics. early 90s gassers are the same.

Electronic problems got sorted out, pcms, tcms, SRS of the early 2000s told you what was wrong, there were enough electronics to help you but but not too much.

Today is just a shit show it seems. Like you mention, 8 million modules.

And I’m sure when I’m 70 the kids will look at me and my early 2000s vehicles as dinosaurs and don’t understand why they don’t fix themselves.

Im 39, I started out driving carb'd stuff and cussed the obd 1 stuff cause i listened to all the old fuckers around me.
So i learned carbs first, then later on came to learn how to diagnose and work on obd 1 and early obd 2 and appreciate the dead simple reliability and ability to diagnose like you say. late 2000's shit starts getting stupid. A simple switch makes a window roll up and down just fine....no need to involve a goddamn computer.

I dont know any mechanics that dont loathe working on the new shit, i get pictures daily in a group text with 4 full timers in it.

 

[Gravy]

I’m 31, and maybe that answers the question because I grew up around the 2004-2010 vehicles. Personally I hate anything with a carb, you have to adjust things, they never seem to run right, they don’t tell you what’s wrong, it’s just wrong or right.

I hated carbs for the same reasons but most of the issues with carburetors isn't actually the carb. It's just worn out, valve leaking shitty engines.

Example - people adjusting carbs on 4wheelers that have no compression and getting frustrated.

After sitting down with manuals and watching a million YouTube vids I prefer carburetors on somethings.

If you have good compression and timing working correctly life is simple and all you need is brown plugs

 

[arse_sidewards]

I dont know any mechanics that dont loathe working on the new shit, i get pictures daily in a group text with 4 full timers in it.

Would the same have been true in 2005?

 

[Tiha]

From what I have read the issue on emissions isn’t from carrying heavy, it’s from driving the truck like a car. Never towing and rarely doing long distance runs are harder on emissions equipment then hauling 38k daily. Working the engine doesn’t clog up DPFs and crap like that.

Now, from an engine standpoint it’s probably the opposite but not for emissions.

While it is true working the engine hard is best for emissions, most of the failures are not use related.

like DEF injection pump, DEF heater or level sensor, Or NOX sensor, or any of the sensors in the exhaust. They don't care if the engine is running or not.

When I decided to delete I was told I needed 4 sensors at the cost of $2800. I deleted for $1200.

Otherwise I would not have screwed with it.

 

[TrailTamer]

I’m 31, and maybe that answers the question because I grew up around the 2004-2010 vehicles. Personally I hate anything with a carb, you have to adjust things, they never seem to run right, they don’t tell you what’s wrong, it’s just wrong or right.

carb (and ignition too ) are great and easy to work with if you know what you're doing.

Today is just a shit show it seems. Like you mention, 8 million modules.

I am not looking forward to dealing with them. A module, let say, for rear wiper go dead and disable the vehicle. canbus BS

And I’m sure when I’m 70 the kids will look at me and my early 2000s vehicles as dinosaurs and don’t understand why they don’t fix themselves.

they probably also will wonder how it's possible for vehicles to run and drive air-gapped to anything, no recharging, no navigation, no SOS emergency button to push for whenever they start to feel uncomfortable somewhere, oh and there's factory-installed spare tire and jack for you to put on if there's a flat.

 

[TrailTamer]

JR4X

thread derailing

get it back on track, will you? Did you get to pull the now-destroyed valve cover off yet to see WTF happened? Maybe it's fixable as it did not knock and something broke in the valvetrain within the head?

 

[90supra]

JR4X

thread derailing

get it back on track, will you? Did you get to pull the now-destroyed valve cover off yet to see WTF happened? Maybe it's fixable as it did not knock and something broke in the valvetrain within the head?

Pretty sure he's racing this weekend. Doubt we'll see much update for a few days.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Would the same have been true in 2005?

They would have been singing the same tune, unless they got a glimpse into their lives in 2023

 

[Kunker]

Going from a carb / no computer truck to just a pcm, or even a pcm, gem, tcm & abs modules is a hell of alot different thing than to 40-50+ modules such as in a 21+up f150.

As someone on the SW side of the industry, how do you like the trend OEMs are looking at for module consolidation then? 4-5 higher compute platforms running all of the stuff that was on 50-100 modules in the past, with a more costly replacement for more functionality?

 

[Kunker]

And on topic - I'd say throw the 12v you have in your current dead truck as a backup, and push Ford on a deal for a loaner, or a discounted purchase/lease price. I know when I was interviewing for a position at Ford, there was a discounted lease (Ford covered insurance and maintenance as well) that I could have taken advantage of. Unfortunately, I declined the position as it wasn't a fit at the time, so I don't have more details to help out.

 

[arse_sidewards]

As someone on the SW side of the industry, how do you like the trend OEMs are looking at for module consolidation then? 4-5 higher compute platforms running all of the stuff that was on 50-100 modules in the past, with a more costly replacement for more functionality?

I think anything that results in consolidation is great because it makes things easier down the road. You kind of see this already with the "megasquirty but in a 90s ECU form factor" ECUs.

Someone like Dorman develop one aftermarket piece of computer hardware, package it in a million form factors and sell it for a million different applications with relative ease resulting in better parts availability for obsolete stuff than we currently have today. Compared to the effort required to reverse engineer individual modules it's more work up front but less over time.

Not having to interface with other potentially proprietary and poorly documented computer modules opens up better options for "mail us a core and we send you an ECU flashed for your application" services as well as Megasquirt type open source solutions.

 

[Levigarrett76]

As someone on the SW side of the industry, how do you like the trend OEMs are looking at for module consolidation then? 4-5 higher compute platforms running all of the stuff that was on 50-100 modules in the past, with a more costly replacement for more functionality?

Better, but still too much wiring snd too much integration

 

[Projectjunkie]

Ya, I mean nothing against that type of swap. Project junkie did one with a mid 90s ford and 12 valve. He had the whole dodge there and used most of the parts.

In mine I wanted to keep most of my ford parts, so I spent money on the ZF5 adapter, ac mount, ect. I got my 12v for $1500 and will still have more than that into it.

Doing it with a newer truck, you're going to pay a ton for parts and pieces to keep everything working.

I saw my name

If it was my truck, I'd probably go common rail cummins with and adaptor and controller for the Ford tranny, unless I found the right dodge with an Asian 4wd

But in reality, I'd be asking ford for a hookup on a loaner tow rig


Maybe take your time and build that 12v up for hp, compounds, ringed block, etc
That might get you your hp, but it'll probably come down to "good fast cheap, pick two"

 

[YotaAtieToo]

How realistic is it going to be to not only get a reliable 650whp, but then to get the trans working properly with a mechanical engine? Then you got monitors, ect.

For what a low mile p pump 12v is worth, I'd sell it to fund a CR engine.

But I still say a newer rig is the answer, the last thing a race team needs is another project.

Edit: how dumb would something like this be?

Highest Quality Remanufactured 6.4 Powerstroke Engine for Sale

We Provide Highest Quality 6.4 Powerstroke Engine. We Offer 3 Kinds of Ford Powerstroke 6.4 Engine That Comes with 5-year 160,000km warranty.

dfcdiesel.com

They seem to stand by their stuff.

 

[JR4X]

Curious..we're you towing with the 17 ram?.. is it a dually? ...and what Trans does it have..68rfe or aisin?..

Just getting back to life, sorry few days late. It’s a 2500 short bed with rear coil springs and the 68RFE.

 

[JR4X]

I agree with that to anything 2020+ with anything in the 2011-2019ish range, the issues should be pretty well known by now.



That's another point to make, there are a few different hp levels with the Ram.

There is also something with the newer rigs where they can feel slower, but are actually doing the same work just as good or better. Maybe the opposite of the old "my truck is way faster wirh this loud exhaust" thing where the noise tricks you into thinking you're hauling ass. The newer trucks do lots of work very quietly and effortlessly.

My 6.4 is 1/10 the noise of that Cummins. Another thing I care about. Cummins are so god dam loud. The only thing you could hear in the cab of my ford is the turbo whistle, bov, wastegate whatever.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

My 6.4 is 1/10 the noise of that Cummins. Another thing I care about. Cummins are so god dam loud. The only thing you could hear in the cab of my ford is the turbo whistle, bov, wastegate whatever.

Surprised that 17 is loud, I haven't ridden in many that were made after about 2008, but my brother in laws 2021 is just as quiet as our F150. Even outside with it running the engine is very quiet.

 

[JR4X]

JR4X

thread derailing

get it back on track, will you? Did you get to pull the now-destroyed valve cover off yet to see WTF happened? Maybe it's fixable as it did not knock and something broke in the valvetrain within the head?

Pretty sure he's racing this weekend. Doubt we'll see much update for a few days.

Yeah, truck blew engine Tuesday in the first 20 miles of a 2000 mile road trip. I just got home from the race and didn’t realize I had a bunch of replies to read. No I haven’t touched it yet because I know what it takes to get to the valve cover.

 

[JR4X]

Surprised that 17 is loud, I haven't ridden in many that were made after about 2008, but my brother in laws 2021 is just as quiet as our F150. Even outside with it running the engine is very quiet.

It’s dereted with a 5” turbo back exhaust no muffler. My truck is dereted with a 4” turbo back exhaust and I used the MBRP with the little bullet muffler.

I want to say again, I’m thankful to borrow the truck. It bailed me out got the job done and it’s a nice truck. Just not sure that that’s what I’d replace what I had with if you know what I mean.

 

[JR4X]

How realistic is it going to be to not only get a reliable 650whp, but then to get the trans working properly with a mechanical engine? Then you got monitors, ect.

For what a low mile p pump 12v is worth, I'd sell it to fund a CR engine.

But I still say a newer rig is the answer, the last thing a race team needs is another project.

Edit: how dumb would something like this be?

Highest Quality Remanufactured 6.4 Powerstroke Engine for Sale

We Provide Highest Quality 6.4 Powerstroke Engine. We Offer 3 Kinds of Ford Powerstroke 6.4 Engine That Comes with 5-year 160,000km warranty.

dfcdiesel.com

They seem to stand by their stuff.

Looking into this. Those guys don’t list a price.

I got recommended these guys and I’m entertaining the thought of the stage 2. From what I can see they are prett reputable and ONLY do ford engines. Specialize in ford and don’t touch Cummins or Duramax.

Ford 6.4L Turbo Diesel Engines

Engine rebuilds and sales for 6.4L Powerstroke engines can keep your Ford van or truck running. Call J&K today for more info.

jandkengineremanufacturing.com

I’d still have a lot of nickle and dime stuff like needing 8 new injectors and stuff that would add up to potentially another 7 or so grand. I’m crunching numbers and looking at all options. Currently all options on the table are buy new truck. Buy used truck. Fix old truck with ford engine. Fix old truck with Cummins engine. A little early in the process but you guys should know I won’t bullshit ya.

I absolutely have to come up with a solution that I can make, make both financial sense, and time sense. The next race I need to tow to is going to be in about 2 1/2 months. But I gotta be on my feet in that amount of time.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

It’s dereted with a 5” turbo back exhaust no muffler. My truck is dereted with a 4” turbo back exhaust and I used the MBRP with the little bullet muffler.

I gotcha, any common rail cummins is loud as fuck out the exhaust. I know 2 different guys who went from straight piped 24v trucks who loved the sound, to common rail trucks and said they were too loud with no muffler. No idea what makes them loud, but I'd definitely figure out a big muffler if I had one.

I want to say again, I’m thankful to borrow the truck. It bailed me out got the job done and it’s a nice truck. Just not sure that that’s what I’d replace what I had with if you know what I mean.

I totally get it, I haven't been overly impressed with any ram. But I will say my brother in laws 21 was pretty nice. With the the 2020+ Ford reliability being iffy, and ram going back to cp3, I might actually look at Rams if I were shopping new diesels.

 

[DMG]

Dumb old men have been saying that forever. Younger guys who grew up running the new shit and know how to work on the new shit always show up. The difference is that now you're part of the former club.

And you have to buy some expensive electronics to do stuff we used to do by hand.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Looking into this. Those guys don’t list a price.

Right after I posted that I saw prices at $11k for a long block.....

I got recommended these guys and I’m entertaining the thought of the stage 2. From what I can see they are prett reputable and ONLY do ford engines. Specialize in ford and don’t touch Cummins or Duramax.

Ford 6.4L Turbo Diesel Engines

Engine rebuilds and sales for 6.4L Powerstroke engines can keep your Ford van or truck running. Call J&K today for more info.

jandkengineremanufacturing.com

I’d still have a lot of nickle and dime stuff like needing 8 new injectors and stuff that would add up to potentially another 7 or so grand. I’m crunching numbers and looking at all options. Currently all options on the table are buy new truck. Buy used truck. Fix old truck with ford engine. Fix old truck with Cummins engine. A little early in the process but you guys should know I won’t bullshit ya.

I absolutely have to come up with a solution that I can make, make both financial sense, and time sense. The next race I need to tow to is going to be in about 2 1/2 months. But I gotta be on my feet in that amount of time.

So $11k long block plus $7k misc, plus all the time.

Man I don't know, that's easily half way to a used 6.7 psd that's ready to go today.

I feel like a bit of a hypocrite since I'm in the process of swapping mine, but the situation is totally different. If I wasn't sentimental to the stupid thing, I'd probably have gone the newer truck route also.

 

[DMG]

Im 39, I started out driving carb'd stuff and cussed the obd 1 stuff cause i listened to all the old fuckers around me.
So i learned carbs first, then later on came to learn how to diagnose and work on obd 1 and early obd 2 and appreciate the dead simple reliability and ability to diagnose like you say. late 2000's shit starts getting stupid. A simple switch makes a window roll up and down just fine....no need to involve a goddamn computer.

I dont know any mechanics that dont loathe working on the new shit, i get pictures daily in a group text with 4 full timers in it.

Obd1 does suck. Even obd2 sucked for the first few years when it was a 20 year old motor design with obd2 slapped on. Obd2 didnt get great until it had engines designed to be obd2.

 

[90supra]

Super charger on one of the new 7.3 trucks. Makes ZERO sense, I just want to see how it is in a towing situation