Know when to hold ‘em know when to fold em

[Gravy]

He said he wanted a real truck

He also said he's trying to stay ford since their team is sponsored by ford.....

Didn't catch the sponsor, really is a pick your poison with todays vehicles.

You can unhook and hide the tow rig if need be. That's easier than a dodge, ford, cummins smashed together.

 

[Steve300xcw]

The main crux of 6.4s these days is that there are no good cores left.

Theres a few on ebay

FORD 6.4L MaxxForce 7 Remanufactured Diesel Engine 2007 -2010 super duty | eBay

FORD 6.4L Diesel Powerstroke Remanufactured Engine 2007 -2010 super duty. Remanufactured 0 Mile Engine. The Engine Forge has been serving the Los Angeles area with premium remanufactured engines for the last thirty years.

www.ebay.com

 

[willis_racing]

Theres a few on ebay

FORD 6.4L MaxxForce 7 Remanufactured Diesel Engine 2007 -2010 super duty | eBay

FORD 6.4L Diesel Powerstroke Remanufactured Engine 2007 -2010 super duty. Remanufactured 0 Mile Engine. The Engine Forge has been serving the Los Angeles area with premium remanufactured engines for the last thirty years.

www.ebay.com

"Good" was the operative word in that statement. It's not that you can't get engines, it's that they aren't going to last the 200k his stock one did. More like 30-50.

 

[DT75FLH]

Curious..we're you towing with the 17 ram?.. is it a dually? ...and what Trans does it have..68rfe or aisin?..

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Didn't catch the sponsor, really is a pick your poison with todays vehicles.

You can unhook and hide the tow rig if need be. That's easier than a dodge, ford, cummins smashed together.

I agree with that to anything 2020+ with anything in the 2011-2019ish range, the issues should be pretty well known by now.

Curious..we're you towing with the 17 ram?.. is it a dually? ...and what Trans does it have..68rfe or aisin?..

That's another point to make, there are a few different hp levels with the Ram.

There is also something with the newer rigs where they can feel slower, but are actually doing the same work just as good or better. Maybe the opposite of the old "my truck is way faster wirh this loud exhaust" thing where the noise tricks you into thinking you're hauling ass. The newer trucks do lots of work very quietly and effortlessly.

 

[06h3]

Have you considered a gm truck duramax.

Not sure on your brand preference but there is alot of ford talk in here with dodge parts

The front end of a Duramax wears out before a 6.4 does.

GM should stop making dinky tie rods

 

[06h3]

https://irate4x4.com/threads/full-manual-superduty-im-really-scared-of-computers-😂.393986/

This thread may help.

Lastly, I’m a ford fan but I still struggle with the 6.7, not because of the 6.7. I think that’s a great motor but because of their stupid fucking cp4. I personally would rather a new ford over a new ram but the cp4 scares me.

OP travels all over for races. He has timelines. A YouTube drifter guy bought his “dream” ford truck. 2020 6.7 ford to replace his 5.9 swapped 08 ford because he didn’t trust it on long road trips.

9 hours into his trip for an event the cp4 takes a dump. Dealer doesn’t plan on covering it under warranty until they realize he has a following on YouTube and is documenting his experience, so they do cover it….

He realized his 5.9 ford never left him stranded. Sold the 2020 and is back in the old truck.

I get it, I’m sure I’ll hear comments like “the failure rate is low” but I have heard enough of these stories and know people personally who have been stuck with the 10k repair bill.

There’s a reason GM and Ram left the CP4 platform. I love ford and I love the 6.7 but they gotta get their head out of their ass.

The cp4 to DCR replacement kit is almost out but why should anyone have to spend another few thousand on a BRAND NEW 80-100k truck.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Im in late on this thread, but isnt one of the known failure points of the 6.4 & 6.0 the lifters? They use same roller lifter as a 7.3, but with more spring pressure from two sets of valve springs? You cant get past that and 4 headbolts per cyl.

I vote spend the $ and do a 6.7 common rail swap the right way or go to 12-16 6.7 ford. I hate the common rail cp4 handicap but they run like raped apes.

People(shops) quit working on 6.4's because most of the parts that are out there are worse than factory.

Getting 200k out of a 6.4 is like getting 600k out of a 7.3 IMO

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Yeah, I thought it would be significantly more but this is Irate, where everyone knows a guy that did his Cummins swap for less than $5k out of spare parts behind the shop

Figured $5k for a junkyard engine and ECM/harness, $1-2k for a trans/tcase, plus whatever else nickel and dimes you to absolute death on a swap for swap parts that don't fit, etc.

Ya, I mean nothing against that type of swap. Project junkie did one with a mid 90s ford and 12 valve. He had the whole dodge there and used most of the parts.

In mine I wanted to keep most of my ford parts, so I spent money on the ZF5 adapter, ac mount, ect. I got my 12v for $1500 and will still have more than that into it.

Doing it with a newer truck, you're going to pay a ton for parts and pieces to keep everything working.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Ya, I mean nothing against that type of swap. Project junkie did one with a mid 90s ford and 12 valve. He had the whole dodge there and used most of the parts.

In mine I wanted to keep most of my ford parts, so I spent money on the ZF5 adapter, ac mount, ect. I got my 12v for $1500 and will still have more than that into it.

Doing it with a newer truck, you're going to pay a ton for parts and pieces to keep everything working.

Full manual superduty (im really scared of computers)😂

do you listen to your old alabama tapes in your tow rig on the way to go wheeling? Do you love your old manual fummins? Do you need more room for fat chicks and your dog? Do you need a hp60 to build a new axle for the front of your buggy when you go rear steer? Do you want to be able to go over...

irate4x4.com

 

[Snowy]

https://irate4x4.com/threads/full-manual-superduty-im-really-scared-of-computers-😂.393986/

This thread may help.

Lastly, I’m a ford fan but I still struggle with the 6.7, not because of the 6.7. I think that’s a great motor but because of their stupid fucking cp4. I personally would rather a new ford over a new ram but the cp4 scares me.

OP travels all over for races. He has timelines. A YouTube drifter guy bought his “dream” ford truck. 2020 6.7 ford to replace his 5.9 swapped 08 ford because he didn’t trust it on long road trips.

9 hours into his trip for an event the cp4 takes a dump. Dealer doesn’t plan on covering it under warranty until they realize he has a following on YouTube and is documenting his experience, so they do cover it….

He realized his 5.9 ford never left him stranded. Sold the 2020 and is back in the old truck.

I get it, I’m sure I’ll hear comments like “the failure rate is low” but I have heard enough of these stories and know people personally who have been stuck with the 10k repair bill.

There’s a reason GM and Ram left the CP4 platform. I love ford and I love the 6.7 but they gotta get their head out of their ass.

The cp4 to DCR replacement kit is almost out but why should anyone have to spend another few thousand on a BRAND NEW 80-100k truck.

I view the CP4 issues like the Porsche IMS bearing issue. Rare but sucks bad if it happens to you. Probably a bit overhyped because of the internet. Definitely going to lose my CP4 now that I typed that out but there are a LOT of CP4's out there with big miles on them in commercial use.

The last two tow rigs were an LBZ that went down twice and a 7.3 that did it's best to strand me a couple times too. Shit happens even on old non-emissions trucks. Once I get stranded twice by a tow rig, it's gone. Can't afford to have issues on the road going to a race. LBZ was bought in 2009 with 65k on it and sold in 2019 with 250k on it, 7.3 was bought in 2014 with 99k and sold in 2021 with 200k on it. Current truck is a F350 dually that I bought in 2021 with 60k on it and now at 98k. I've had really good luck on a cost per mile basis buying around that age and running to roughly 200k so I plan to do the same on the 6.7.

 

[06h3]

I view the CP4 issues like the Porsche IMS bearing issue. Rare but sucks bad if it happens to you. Probably a bit overhyped because of the internet. Definitely going to lose my CP4 now that I typed that out but there are a LOT of CP4's out there with big miles on them in commercial use.

The last two tow rigs were an LBZ that went down twice and a 7.3 that did its best to strand me a couple times too. Shit happens even on old non-emissions trucks. Once I get stranded twice by a tow rig, it's gone. Can't afford to have issues on the road going to a race. LBZ was bought in 2009 with 65k on it and sold in 2019 with 250k on it, 7.3 was bought in 2014 with 99k and sold in 2021 with 200k on it. Current truck is a F350 dually that I bought in 2021 with 60k on it and now at 98k. I've had really good luck on a cost per mile basis buying around that age and running to roughly 200k so I plan to do the same on the 6.7.

I hear ya, as they say, “if it has tits or tires, your gonna have problems”

Even if it’s rare, there’s a reason ram stepped away from the cp4. There are other units out there that have lower failure rates.

I think half the problems with these older diesel trucks is that they have been fucked with by 4-7 owners now. They are usually fucked with by people not knowing what they are doing because it’s some teen who got his first diesel, or some guy who can’t afford a new diesel and is doing ghetto shit to keep the old diesel running because no diesel is cheap and most of the older diesels have 200-400k on them now which allows for random failure.

The idea of a new diesel, is that you don’t have these problems and unfortunately I think we, the people, have become test dummies for these manufacturers as they don’t throughly test this stuff out like they used to, as the bar is always changing for epa crap and they are jumping through hurdles on emissions standards.

I’m not trying to sell anyone on the older diesel life. There’s downsides. They are loud, slower, require more maintenance, etc.

I am genuinely intrigued to see where this goes. There’s 1000 ways to skin a cat and I thoroughly enjoy seeing how we all haul our crap to the desert, or forest or wherever we are going to use our rigs.

I’ve seen big diesel pusher RVs leave people stranded, and I’ve seen success with them.

I’ve seen the class 8 semi setup work well and not work well. Like the time Erik Miller had a motor go out halfway across America on his way to KOH.

Old diesels work well, and fail.

New diesels work well and fail.

You get the point, it all works until it doesn’t and unfortunately, I’ve seen high dollar setups fail and low buck setups fail.

One thing I do wish I had was the dedication to your 2 time stranded rule, I don’t think I’d have my rock crawler or truck anymore if that was the case lol

 

[DMG]

I view the CP4 issues like the Porsche IMS bearing issue. Rare but sucks bad if it happens to you. Probably a bit overhyped because of the internet. Definitely going to lose my CP4 now that I typed that out but there are a LOT of CP4's out there with big miles on them in commercial use.

The last two tow rigs were an LBZ that went down twice and a 7.3 that did it's best to strand me a couple times too. Shit happens even on old non-emissions trucks. Once I get stranded twice by a tow rig, it's gone. Can't afford to have issues on the road going to a race. LBZ was bought in 2009 with 65k on it and sold in 2019 with 250k on it, 7.3 was bought in 2014 with 99k and sold in 2021 with 200k on it. Current truck is a F350 dually that I bought in 2021 with 60k on it and now at 98k. I've had really good luck on a cost per mile basis buying around that age and running to roughly 200k so I plan to do the same on the 6.7.

Except that there is a relatively easy preventative fix for the IMS bearing. The CP4 is going to go when it goes and aside from fuel additives, there is not much you can do about it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I've been around many dozens of 6.7 psd work trucks since they were released, plus most peoplei know with a newer diesel have them. Not saying I would know each and every issue with each one, but out of all of them I remember one 2012 F550 needing a long block under 100k and just recently a 2021 having a cp4 go. There was also a buddy who lost one on a 2015ish, but his was tuned way up and he drove it like an absolute retard.

My buddy has 175k on his 2016 drw that I rode with him to the dealer to buy, he used it for work the whole time. My father in law has 200k on his 2017 that he mostly uses as a car, with occasional towing.

Like others said if the cp4 was as terrible as the internet says, I'd be hearing about them fail constantly.

If I were to buy a newer diesel, I think I'd look for a 6.7 psd with around 100k of highway miles. I feel like if it's a lemon, you'll know by then.

I'd still put a disaster prevention kit on it though

 

[RPS1030]

Except that there is a relatively easy preventative fix for the IMS bearing. The CP4 is going to go when it goes and aside from fuel additives, there is not much you can do about it.

I'd add keep the fuel level up. Just a couple tanks before my 19 Ram lost the CP4, supply and crowds made it tough to get fuel and I pushed pretty low before I could fill up. I wouldn't be surprised if it started going then.

I'd still put a disaster prevention kit on it though

At least it's an option on the Fords.

 

[06h3]

At least it's an option on the Fords.

I like the ram option the best, the true disaster prevention kit, a ram covered warranty back to a cp3

 

[TrailTamer]

I’m not trying to sell anyone on the older diesel life. There’s downsides. They are loud, slower, require more maintenance, etc.

Require more maintenance?

 

[Levigarrett76]

I've been around many dozens of 6.7 psd work trucks since they were released, plus most peoplei know with a newer diesel have them. Not saying I would know each and every issue with each one, but out of all of them I remember one 2012 F550 needing a long block under 100k and just recently a 2021 having a cp4 go. There was also a buddy who lost one on a 2015ish, but his was tuned way up and he drove it like an absolute retard.

My buddy has 175k on his 2016 drw that I rode with him to the dealer to buy, he used it for work the whole time. My father in law has 200k on his 2017 that he mostly uses as a car, with occasional towing.

Like others said if the cp4 was as terrible as the internet says, I'd be hearing about them fail constantly.

If I were to buy a newer diesel, I think I'd look for a 6.7 psd with around 100k of highway miles. I feel like if it's a lemon, you'll know by then.

I'd still put a disaster prevention kit on it though

From what I have witnessed (not internet) the 11-16 6.7powerstroke fuel system seems to let go in the 200-250k range. I cant speak for any alumi-duties with the more robust filter system I have seen in that mileage range.

To me, across the board it seems trucks newer than around 2018 +/- have gotten noticeably further complicated and thus more prone to issues. Shifting themselves into and out of park, electric apply e-brakes, self driving type bullshit. Something as simple as putting into neutral and turning off the truck to roll it is now a process. Exponentially more shit to fail/glitch. As said earlier, a warranty now adays is not what it used to be worth, what good is it if you are without your truck 6 months?

My 2001 7.3 has never refused me putting the gear shift lever into reverse because the is door open, or randomly let its tailgate down going down the road, or adjusted the passenger side mirror when raising a seat. so on and so forth. I went from a 2007 5.9, to 2012 6.7 dodge, then 2017 f350 6.7. Put about 100k ea on all, all were tuned and "stuff".
I went back to a 2001 7.3 with half the power..
I have put 40k on it in 5 years. I dont tow as much or as heavy as i used to and it works just fine for me. I understand where JRx is coming from

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Require more maintenance?

He's probably talking over all maintenance. I've put 10x's the maintenance into the 97 I bought with 200k miles vs the 15 I bought with with 25k miles.

From what I have witnessed (not internet) the 11-16 6.7powerstroke fuel system seems to let go in the 200-250k range. I cant speak for any alumi-duties with the more robust filter system I have seen in that mileage range.

that's good to know. Which is funny because all the hype is around ford not honoring the warranty.

To me, across the board it seems trucks newer than around 2018 +/- have gotten noticeably further complicated and thus more prone to issues. Shifting themselves into and out of park, electric apply e-brakes, self driving type bullshit. Something as simple as putting into neutral and turning off the truck to roll it is now a process. Exponentially more shit to fail/glitch. As said earlier, a warranty now adays is not what it used to be worth, what good is it if you are without your truck 6 months?

My 2001 7.3 has never refused me putting the gear shift lever into reverse because the is door open, or randomly let its tailgate down going down the road, or adjusted the passenger side mirror when raising a seat. so on and so forth. I went from a 2007 5.9, to 2012 6.7 dodge, then 2017 f350 6.7. Put about 100k ea on all, all were tuned and "stuff".
I went back to a 2001 7.3 with half the power..
I have put 40k on it in 5 years. I dont tow as much or as heavy as i used to and it works just fine for me. I understand where JRx is coming from

My work bought a 2023 base model 3500 gm and it had a fully electric tailgate. Rubber floors and fucking push button tailgate .......

I'm pretty unsure of anything 2020 or newer. Even the 22 peterbuilt and 23 kenworth we have at work are having quite a few trips to the dealer already.

 

[TrailTamer]

He's probably talking over all maintenance. I've put 10x's the maintenance into the 97 I bought with 200k miles vs the 15 I bought with with 25k miles.

That’s expected.

I mean, for standard preventative maintenance stuff on engine only.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

That’s expected.

I mean, for standard preventative maintenance stuff on engine only.

Thats a tough call.

New diesel should only need oil and filter changes.

For example, my 7.3 needed: glow plugs, vc gasket/harnesses, lift pump, Idm, multiple alternators, battery cables, replaced batteries twice, plus probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

The biggest problem with older trucks, is that they're older now. I've had my 97 for 11 years and I do love the truck. With the prices of them now, I'd have a hard time recommending one today.

 

[Gravy]

The front end of a Duramax wears out before a 6.4 does.

GM should stop making dinky tie rods

I'll replace some bushings and tie rods over an unfixable engine.

One thing to consider with gm products is the aftermarket support.

 

[Snowy]

Require more maintenance?

Maintenance includes more than just engine work.

One thing I do wish I had was the dedication to your 2 time stranded rule, I don’t think I’d have my rock crawler or truck anymore if that was the case lol

I’ve worked in freight my whole career and have a small expediting fleet of trucks hauling fasteners for pretty much all the OEM’s with domestic operations so my tolerance for breakdowns is pretty low.

Ironically enough my last two trucks in the shop have been for an Allison TCM and a Cummins ECM and my N9 International (Churched up Maxxforce) has been working OT filling in the gap perfectly lol

 

[Tiha]

I can see the maintenance view point. Seems like we used to do ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings. Even u-joints all the time.

Glow plug relays, vacuum pumps.

Now I cannot even remember the last time I put an alternator on, or even a serpentine belt.

but I have a 2014 ford 6.7 that has been untouched besides brake pads until 187k, one thing led to another and now probably needs a cp4.

It's really not that big of a deal, Inconvenient. But really if that is the only problem I have for a while it is worth it. It has a ton of idle time which probably is what killed it.

But I snow plowed with it. Usually would need a transmission by now but the 6r is holding up great. same with wheel bearings, tie rod ends. I have the western wide out plow which is, or was the heaviest one they make and the chassis has held up great.

It has been deleted for a while, but also it has always run stock tunes, no extra fueling. 400hp is enough. It tows 10k like it isn't hardly there.

Actually in comparison, my 2014 6.7 towing 10k pounds could probably out run my 99 dodge 24 valve without a trailer. (stock vs stock)
If the Ford didn't win it would be really close.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Actually in comparison, my 2014 6.7 towing 10k pounds could probably out run my 99 dodge 24 valve without a trailer. (stock vs stock)
If the Ford didn't win it would be really close.

What was the average daily mileage the person who bought a new 1999 Dodge was putting on the thing?

"oil changes and brake pads only for the first 7yr" doesn't sound as impressive as "oil changes and brake pads only for 187k"

I agree things have gotten incrementally better across the board but I think people don't realize how little maintenance a 1999 truck took to keep on the road in 2006 because it was 17yr younger then than it is now.

 

[Tiha]

What was the average daily mileage the person who bought a new 1999 Dodge was putting on the thing?

"oil changes and brake pads only for the first 7yr" doesn't sound as impressive as "oil changes and brake pads only for 187k"

I agree things have gotten incrementally better across the board but I think people don't realize how little maintenance a 1999 truck took to keep on the road in 2006 because it was 17yr younger then than it is now.

Oh I don't know. That 99 dodge had a dozen electric fuel pumps, a Vp44, countless starters, 4 transmissions. Radiator. Tie rods, wheel bearings. Rear axle wheel seals for some reason kept eating them. Sold it at 250k because the head gasket was leaking and the plastic dash had completely collapsed.

That should be a fair comparison. I buy new, or near new low mileage and run them until they are stupid to fix.

technology has come a long way. Even in the big class 8 trucks. We used to do a water pump a month, we have not done one in years.

Or fan clutches, or alternators, ac compressors. Still do clutches all the time, but transmissions, rear ends. They all last the life of the truck anymore.

Remember when EGRs came out on big trucks, we were doing coolers ever other week. Now I haven't done one in years.

Today our issue is after treatment. In a few years they will get the bugs worked out of that as well.

Nobody ever pops open a hood anymore between oil changes unless they need washer fluid on pickups or big trucks.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Actually in comparison, my 2014 6.7 towing 10k pounds could probably out run my 99 dodge 24 valve without a trailer. (stock vs stock)
If the Ford didn't win it would be really close.

Ive always said I would put $ on my 2017 f350 with tow tune pulling my 14k skidsteer/trailer outrunning my tuned 2001 7.3 empty from a dead stop.



Come on guys, using a 94-2002 (or any dodge in reality) dodge is a terrible comparison for 90's-2000's truck reliability . I think shipping crate is a great description for that platform.

The 99-16 fords are a proven and reliable truck/chassis and set the bar higher with each mini-generation (not the engines obviously).

Down to shit like door pins, before the 99-16 ford doors would be sagging in 100k miles, my 210k 2001's doors are still tight. Chevy and dodge still havent figured that out..

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Oh I don't know. That 99 dodge had a dozen electric fuel pumps, a Vp44, countless starters, 4 transmissions. Radiator. Tie rods, wheel bearings. Rear axle wheel seals for some reason kept eating them. Sold it at 250k because the head gasket was leaking and the plastic dash had completely collapsed.

Thays what's funny is people constantly fawn over that Era of trucks. The engines them selves may be more reliable, but over all I'm not so sure.

One difference is that those older trucks were far easier for the average guy to fix in their garage.

That should be a fair comparison. I buy new, or near new low mileage and run them until they are stupid to fix.

technology has come a long way. Even in the big class 8 trucks. We used to do a water pump a month, we have not done one in years.

Or fan clutches, or alternators, ac compressors. Still do clutches all the time, but transmissions, rear ends. They all last the life of the truck anymore.

Remember when EGRs came out on big trucks, we were doing coolers ever other week. Now I haven't done one in years.

Today our issue is after treatment. In a few years they will get the bugs worked out of that as well.

Nobody ever pops open a hood anymore between oil changes unless they need washer fluid on pickups or big trucks.

I kinda wonder if we're there already. I have not seen many emissions issues from around 2017ish on. The issues I have heard were stuff like a Def tank sensor. Not the horrible issues of years past.

My boss buys a new duramax every 3 years or so. For years he would delete egr's then dpf stuff, then Def. He just bought a 2022 and put his 2018 down to shop duty. Everything is still intact on the 18 because it never gave an issue.

I have not heard of any emissions issues on out 5 F550s either. Mine hauls 38k every day, and the other 4 are Porta John trucks, so constant stop and go with a ton of idling.

Biggest issue today is just quality control imo.

 

[arse_sidewards]

One difference is that those older trucks were far easier for the average guy to fix in their garage.

Dumb old men have been saying that forever. Younger guys who grew up running the new shit and know how to work on the new shit always show up. The difference is that now you're part of the former club.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Going from a carb / no computer truck to just a pcm, or even a pcm, gem, tcm & abs modules is a hell of alot different thing than to 40-50+ modules such as in a 21+up f150.