What's new
By:
Filters

Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

Jeffh555 said:
CanAm X3 is about 6K at 60mph, did that for 300 miles in Baja on the highway back from a friend's bachelor party, motor didn't seem to mind.
Click to expand...
Yeah the gear calculators are spitting out about 6700 at 60mph with 28" tires. Screamin, but thats where those motors make power.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I don't think 4600 requires stock mounting points, just basically an unmodified frame, which almost ends up being the same thing.
Click to expand...
4600 only requires stock mounting points if using IFS. The rule really is that whatever it came with, is the style of suspension you have to use. It can be modified, etc but has to be the same style. So coils, coil over, leaf, whatever it came with factory is what you have to use (but aftermarket obviously)
 
tribal4krawler said:
4600 only requires stock mounting points if using IFS. The rule really is that whatever it came with, is the style of suspension you have to use. It can be modified, etc but has to be the same style. So coils, coil over, leaf, whatever it came with factory is what you have to use (but aftermarket obviously)
Click to expand...

As far as I can see, the Triton kit the broncos are using, moves the upper mounts.

Does it actually require stock mounting points, or does it just not allow frame modifications? Which would make changing the lower mounts difficult on most vehicles since theyre usually integrated into a crossmember.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
As far as I can see, the Triton kit the broncos are using, moves the upper mounts.

Does it actually require stock mounting points, or does it just not allow frame modifications? Which would make changing the lower mounts difficult on most vehicles since theyre usually integrated into a crossmember.
Click to expand...
No it doesnt require factory mounting points. You just have to keep the factory style at each ends anf i dont believe you can chop off anything significant like cross members
 
I thought after Vaughn they kicked out IFS from 4500? Guess it’s been a bit since I looked at the rule book.
 
From the 4500 section:

4.8 SUSPENSION
4.8.1 Any and all suspension components and configurations are permitted, providing they meet all the additional rules and regulations specified herein.
4.8.2 Shock absorbers of any make/model/type are permitted and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions:
1) Only two shock absorbers are permitted per wheel/tire (not including spare tires).
2) Shock absorbers shall not be larger than 2.65" (67mm) in diameter (outer diameter of shock-body) and shall not be capable of any more than 14" (355.6mm) stroke.
3) Shock absorbers must be connected directly to the axle assembly and chassis and shall not be mounted in any way so as to yield any type of mechanical advantage, unless factory-equipped (mounting shock absorbers off-vertical is permitted and shall not be considered a mechanical advantage), or equipped with any type of independent suspension (and then shock absorbers may 2023 Hammerking Rulebook V5.3 Final 40 only be mounted to as to yield a mechanical advantage at the wheels/tires that are independently suspended).
Click to expand...

Sooooo......... Am I reading that right? Does that mean one can mount the shocks any way I want as long as there is independent suspension at that wheel?
 
Tech Tim said:
From the 4500 section:



Sooooo......... Am I reading that right? Does that mean one can mount the shocks any way I want as long as there is independent suspension at that wheel?
Click to expand...
My interpretation is that you also need to follow all the other IFS specific 4500 rules that made 4500 Brocky illegal.

4.8.4 Independent Suspensions are not allowed in the Modified class with the following exception:
1) Independent Suspended vehicles must use OEM Factory Frame and OEM Factory Body Style for that make/model year and the vehicle must have been Independent for that make/model year.
2) Frame requirements will exceed class rules to include suspension mounting points for the independent portion of the suspension.
Click to expand...
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
At what RPM is the motor spinning at though?
Click to expand...
constantly variable. flat ground and constant speed aren't a reliable condition.



they can be setup different, but generally speaking the cvt hits it shift limit around 7500rpm and motor limits are at 8500-9000rpm. the flat ground and constant speed, ie hwy cruzing is around 6k. what does that matter? the motors aren't a problem at all.


a belt is some drive train protection. i've never raced, and still change it every 600mi. blowing a belt can quikly lead to blowing another if you dont fully disassemble everything and be sure everything is working as it should.
 
Jeffh555 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the IFS rules were added after Brocky raced 4500
Click to expand...
That is only for 4500. Ironically 4600 does not have any restrictions on moving suspension mounting points including for IFS. All of the Broncos in 4600 have custom upper control arm mounting locations, and there are a few other 4600 builds that haven't raced yet with much more drastic changes to factory IFS mounting locations.
 
tracyb said:
constantly variable. flat ground and constant speed aren't a reliable condition.



they can be setup different, but generally speaking the cvt hits it shift limit around 7500rpm and motor limits are at 8500-9000rpm. the flat ground and constant speed, ie hwy cruzing is around 6k. what does that matter? the motors aren't a problem at all.


a belt is some drive train protection. i've never raced, and still change it every 600mi. blowing a belt can quikly lead to blowing another if you dont fully disassemble everything and be sure everything is working as it should.
Click to expand...
Trying to get an idea of what the utvs pull for rpm vs an automotive motor.
 
mobil1syn said:
you guys are funny with sponsorship money. besides loren everyone is scratching that check themselves.
Click to expand...
When I raced guys were getting paid. $50k to start a relationship. More after it developed. I’d guess a ton

Thinking about it, I know guys racing 4400 who are totally paid for by sponsorship. Years ago it was $450,000
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
Trying to get an idea of what the utvs pull for rpm vs an automotive motor.
Click to expand...
My rzr idles at 3000 rpm. The clutching keeps it between 5000 and 8500 rpm. The rev limiter is 9000 and the one time I hit the rev limiter it cost me a thousand bucks to replace all the exploded stuff from the belt letting go. I thought the belts just broke. I didn’t know the exploded into pieces sending shrapnel through they aluminum cases and plastic guards.
 
Poke said:
When I raced guys were getting paid. $50k to start a relationship. More after it developed. I’d guess a ton

Thinking about it, I know guys racing 4400 who are totally paid for by sponsorship. Years ago it was $450,000
Click to expand...
utv guys are getting paid, true u4 guys not so much.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
RCV has a monopoly on the UTV side as well. There are a few companies making aftermarket axle assemblies for UTV's but 99% of those are complete shit and the stock CV's are far superior. Except in the case of Polaris, those fuckers break factory axles and joints like it's their sole purpose in life and even the shit aftermarket ones are an improvement. :laughing:

My Talon has HUGE CV's F&R. Like car sized, and they hold up well to abuse. They are so good that Jamie Campbell of Raceco-USA only replaces the shafts themselves with RCV 300M shafts and keeps the stock CV joints on all his Baja 1000 builds. I've yet to hear him say that they broke a stock Honda CV joint. :smokin:
Click to expand...
I’ve never seen a broken factory X3 shaft. Even on 33’s with 250hp+
 
What do you get for 450k?

If that's money to race a season including KOH, that's not really much.
 
Bebop said:
What do you get for 450k?

If that's money to race a season including KOH, that's not really much.
Click to expand...
A few years ago (edit) big name wasn’t getting that much. I don’t know the exact amount big name is getting now but at the time he quit his job and went full time racing he was getting $300k a year sponsorship. That was way before ford came on board. I’d quit my job and race full time on 300K a year.

Edit. Not cool of me to put other peoples business on the internet. Name removed.
 
Bebop said:
names and companies?

Or you're just giving us numbers like that
Click to expand...
I’m not so stupid as to burn confidence and friends in for some curious fake friends.

Also racers largely keep that secret because the competition for the sponsorship is as fierce as the racing. Stealing or attempting to steal sponsorship happens. Nobody openly talks about who’s paying them what.
 
JR4X said:
A few years ago (edit) big name wasn’t getting that much. I don’t know the exact amount he’s getting now but at the time he quit his job and full time racing he was getting $300k a year sponsorship. That was way before ford came on board. I’d quit my job and race full time on 300K a year.
Click to expand...

I don't know how'd you pay a competitive 4400 team + racing expenses + life money (mortgage, car, living expenses) on 300k/year
 
Bebop said:
I don't know how'd you pay a competitive 4400 team + racing expenses + life money (mortgage, car, living expenses) on 300k/year
Click to expand...
I’m sure it’s a couple hundo a year more than that now. But you gotta get started somewhere. Budget hard in the beginning and push for more every year.
 
JR4X said:
I’m sure it’s a couple hundo a year more than that now. But you gotta get started somewhere. Budget hard in the beginning and push more every year.
Click to expand...

Imagine you drop an engine during the season. That's 70k. Bam

I admire your willingness to risk it all though
 
Bebop said:
Imagine you drop an engine during the season. That's 70k. Bam

I admire your willingness to risk it all though
Click to expand...
I’ve seen it happen. We’ve seen another big name lose two $70K+ motors in one week at KOH. I can’t afford one of those period. Let alone several a year.
 
JR4X said:
I’ve seen it happen. We’ve seen another big name lose two $70K+ motors in one week at KOH. I can’t afford one of those period. Let alone several a year.
Click to expand...

I know.
Looks insane to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh