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Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

Bebop said:
Well in that case, nevermind
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I know I know, we're talking comp application. I guess my point more or less was that if they're making CVs that hold that power, and RCV already has a design for a TTB axle shaft, why couldn't (with enough cubic $$$) someone buy a set of axles that would hold?
 
posford said:
I know I know, we're talking comp application. I guess my point more or less was that if they're making CVs that hold that power, and RCV already has a design for a TTB axle shaft, why couldn't (with enough cubic $$$) someone buy a set of axles that would hold?
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Goes to what diff ?
We're talking about "cheaper" alternatives here...
 
Bebop said:
Goes to what diff ?
We're talking about "cheaper" alternatives here...
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I thought part of the equation was "affordability" and partially the geometry that goes into making a successful IFS design.

It wouldn't be that hard to fab an adapter, similar to a fabricated center section, that allowed aftermarket 3rd members to bolt onto a custom TTB beam. Of course we've never seen anything like that designed, but nothing says it couldn't be.

Depends I guess on definition of "cheaper." Theres junkyard budget and theres the competitive IFS budget, I think somewhere in between those 2 there could be a really interesting TTB design
 
posford said:
It wouldn't be that hard to fab an adapter, similar to a fabricated center section, that allowed aftermarket 3rd members to bolt onto a custom TTB beam. Of course we've never seen anything like that designed, but nothing says it couldn't be.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Don't the UFO IRS cars pretty much have a TTB on steroids out back?

What about Lance's old 4400 car that Robby Gordon drove? Pretty sure that was also a TTB on steroids setup they had going on...
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Yeah pic was posted earlier in the thread. Similar, but still has an upper arm and knuckle like an A arm setup
 
Isdtbower said:
Have you-all taken videos of your SA's? Have you added camber and maybe some or less caster gain or anti's to the front turning axles as easily done. Have you thought about barrel rolling the rear axle shafts to add maybe 3* of static camber to make up for tire roll? Some have, and we probably wouldn't easily see it. All cool stuff to keep competitive. From seeing advantages of those in IFS, there are some advantages in SA's that might be taken.. "We are watching you" to avoid traditional IRS.

This is the defining picture of Joe Thompson's / Raul Gomez' IRS that gains about 4-6" of IRS ground clearance over traditional centered diff IRS. And closer to offset diff SA advantages. (Edit 4-5 years old?)
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SLOWPOKE693 this pic
 
Tech Tim said:
Long travel IFS on the trail is a blast. All the nuisance stuff is gone, you don't even notice it.

Ripping up and down the fire roads between the trails is way too much fun.
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I find the utv swarm super annoying like a cloud of mosquitoes:shaking: Why dump 30k on an ifs suspension when you can just buy a turnkey utv and DOMINATE the fire roads:laughing:
 
Bebop said:
Is it bad if I don't care about IFS and want more SA tech ? :homer:

Why isn't there another HP third member out there other than the unobtainium 10" ?

50 degrees of steering with a CV, how do we do that ?
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I agree, I still think there is still more to be had with SA tech. Especially with shock travel. Ive been messing around with some ideas to get a good clean reliable solution for 22-24" travel up front to match closer to the rear on a buggy I hope to be building soon. I think there can be a better solution than massive shocks or leading arms with crows nests sticking a foot above the hood line.

I agree with the third member. I was surprised it took someone like tubeworks as long as it did to come out with another option. But it is not geared toward the average rec wheelers at that price point. Your only real options on a HP dropout is gearworks and HI9 or Toyota correct?

Pretty sure JHF has come up with some recipe combining parts from a couple different style CV's to get 50 degrees with his portals.
 
93blackxj said:
I agree, I still think there is still more to be had with SA tech. Especially with shock travel. Ive been messing around with some ideas to get a good clean reliable solution for 22-24" travel up front to match closer to the rear on a buggy I hope to be building soon. I think there can be a better solution than massive shocks or leading arms with crows nests sticking a foot above the hood line.
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You got me interested here.
I'm about to cut mine up to switch to dual 16" shocks upfront to better match the 24" of travel out back and packaging them with 50 degrees of steering is gonna be a giant pita. So bad I'm thinking about going back to single shocks.

I agree with the third member. I was surprised it took someone like tubeworks as long as it did to come out with another option. But it is not geared toward the average rec wheelers at that price point. Your only real options on a HP dropout is gearworks and HI9 or Toyota correct?
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If you want to look overseas, the Nissan H233B is a great one too. Cheap cheap and very strong for what it is. 35sp spools and ARBs are available. But still not as strong as a 10" of course.

Pretty sure JHF has come up with some recipe combining parts from a couple different style CV's to get 50 degrees with his portals.
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I can't get a good answer on that. I know he doesn't sell them anymore.
I really love the CV in my buggy. No hopping when you're turned over 35 degrees is really nice
 
Bebop said:
You got me interested here.
I'm about to cut mine up to switch to dual 16" shocks upfront to better match the 24" of travel out back and packaging them with 50 degrees of steering is gonna be a giant pita. So bad I'm thinking about going back to single shocks.
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I feel your pain, I have mine designed right now with 24" rear and dual 16s upfront and the packaging is very tricky, and I think that is just with 45 degrees. That is also another reason I have been playing with another option. Even if you could get in the 20" range with less packaging issues and still have good visibility I think it would be a step in the right direction. I think one hurdle may possibly be drive line angle though. I havnt gotten that far yet.

Bebop said:
I can't get a good answer on that. I know he doesn't sell them anymore.
I really love the CV in my buggy. No hopping when you're turned over 35 degrees is really nice
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Yeah I want to say that I saw something about one of the parts he was using for it got discontinued and he couldnt get RCV to make any more of them after he bought up everyones stock.
 
posford said:
click the little arrow on the quoted post and it'll take you to the pic
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Still a TTB but instead of using the knuckle to steer the rear they are using it as a pivot point to keep camber in check. That's actually a pretty slick idea now that I look at it more. :smokin:

Why couldn't the "poor man" do that with a D50 TTB assembly to build a similar rear? Cut and turn the inner C's 90° and use the pivot point to control camber.

:idea:
 
Didn't Joe Thompson build a leading arm front for one of his old 4400 cars on the old board? If I'm remembering correctly it was painted in the Gulf blue/orange colors and he raced it in at least 1 KOH. That car still around and did his experiment work?
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Why couldn't the "poor man" do that with a D50 TTB assembly to build a similar rear? Cut and turn the inner C's 90° and use the pivot point to control camber.
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First time you press the gas pedal parts will be flying everywhere.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Didn't Joe Thompson build a leading arm front for one of his old 4400 cars on the old board? If I'm remembering correctly it was painted in the Gulf blue/orange colors and he raced it in at least 1 KOH. That car still around and did his experiment work?
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All the single shock bombers are on leading arms.
The Jimmy's48P are too.

Turning abilities are limited because of the shock / tire contact.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Didn't Joe Thompson build a leading arm front for one of his old 4400 cars on the old board? If I'm remembering correctly it was painted in the Gulf blue/orange colors and he raced it in at least 1 KOH. That car still around and did his experiment work?
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Yes, a couple of them. I believe they are still in possession of the 5150 leading arm car. And the Caprara’s have the other one you’re thinking of.
 
Bebop said:
First time you press the gas pedal parts will be flying everywhere.
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Please explain? I wasn't talking about running it in the 4400 class or on a rock bouncer, more of a trail buggy IRS setup. Use monoballs for the pivots instead of ball joints and I think it would be OK and not yard sale parts everywhere.
 
its a mofo to get everything sorted out when you have a shit ton of steering angle. ideally on top of the axle because then it can pivot around the shock. but then to get the travel you need a 15 foot sock length. it will be cool to see how you solve this issue for sure. :beer:
 
JR4X said:
Yes, a couple of them. I believe they are still in possession of the 5150 leading arm car. And the Caprara’s have the other one you’re thinking of.
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Brenden Thompson also raced one last year I believe and he mentioned that this year they were planning on letting his son race it in the 4800 class since they changed the rules on the mid engines. But he ended up not racing for some reason.

edit: Just realized 5150 is Brenden, so talking about the same thing lol
 
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Bebop said:
All the single shock bombers are on leading arms.
The Jimmy's48P are too.

Turning abilities are limited because of the shock / tire contact.
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I think that is why you mostly see it only on single shock stuff. They can probably still pull off 45 degrees or so but it would be tough with a bypass. Tim Cameron made it work on his last buggy Tyrant but not sure how much steering it had. They were also pretty far back and still had shock hoops at eye level.
 
93blackxj said:
I think that is why you mostly see it only on single shock stuff. They can probably still pull off 45 degrees or so but it would be tough with a bypass. Tim Cameron made it work on his last buggy Tyrant but not sure how much steering it had. They were also pretty far back and still had shock hoops at eye level.
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Not even close to 45 degrees.

SLOWPOKE693 said:
Please explain? I wasn't talking about running it in the 4400 class or on a rock bouncer, more of a trail buggy IRS setup. Use monoballs for the pivots instead of ball joints and I think it would be OK and not yard sale parts everywhere.
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Dana 50 in the rear with 43" tires = no good
 
93blackxj said:
Pretty sure JHF has come up with some recipe combining parts from a couple different style CV's to get 50 degrees with his portals.
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I'm pretty sure I read someplace that he is oversteering the CVs to get to 50deg.

I always wondered why 50deg was such a magic number for crawling. I'd be stoked with 45deg and especially if I had 45 front and back, and portals,....

Apparently RCV discontinued the cheaper CV (smaller?) option they had for the hummers.
 
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