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Divorce...when is it time, when do you know. Facing the unknown.

POR said:
2 things..
1) if you retain a lawyer, absolutely don't let a woman represent you!
2) this is almost as important as first rule.
file first!!!! I can't stress this enough
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I stress #2, and get a good attorney. Being a dude already has you at a loss. I literally just finished up a year of this mess. I learned a lot about how the "system" works and i don't care what anyone tells you. Times have not changed enough to make it fair in court for a man.
Also, when i say good attorney, i mean a fucking prick. I thought having an attorney that actually gave a shit about the well being of my kids was the best option. While it didnt turn out horrible, it could have went better with a scum bag jerk of an attorney. One who is willing to push the boundaries. Again with my stance on a broken system and all that.
 
POR said:
First filer sents the tone for the whole court proceedings.. no one ever wants to hear the other side defend itself. File first and set the scenario... men always are on the short end of the stick as far as divorces go as a group. No fucking woman walking the earth can remotely appreciate that and defend accordingly.
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70%+ of divorces are filed by the female.
Prepare yourself.
 
Get to the truth. Your own and hers. What people say and what they really think are not that related. You need to be honest with yourself about who you are and what you really want and how you really feel about her. Know what your commitment is and what you are willing to do and be before you have any conversations.

Try to get her to be completely honest with you. Warts and all. Ask her if there is a way back or if she thinks the relationship is not save able.

In my first marriage, 22 years, my wife pretty much never lived up to what I hoped for. I felt like I had to carry all burdens, solve all problems and bail her out of problems she frequently go into. I allowed her to lie about things that I shouldn't have (spending money and robbing Peter to pay Paul.) she was not a strong parent. But, I believed I could 'make up the difference'.

Time wore on me. One day, by accident, I discovered that she had been lying to me about some purchases, which led to finding out she had 7 storage lockers FULL of 'stuff'.. valuable stuff. I figured out where a LOT of money had disappeared and, in that investigation, discovered hidden debt. All told, about 400K.

The lying and deception and not being able to trust is the cancer. If you have avoided that, and you aren't abusive, if she is honest with you, you might be able to rebuild. but, if the trust is broken, you'll never be able to feel right about her.

I am civil with my ex (for the few interactions we have) but I hate that she stole so many good years from me, and that hate is really just being really disappointed in myself for not seeing clearly and acting on things in the beginning. I would have been out of that relationship and on my way.

My second wife is straight up. The relationship is like night and day. I hoped marriage would be like it is now.

So, if your marriage is difficult and a pain in the ass and hard work all the time, you are in a shitty marriage, get out.
 
I’m glad you posted up Pennsylvaniaboy. It’s easy for people to judge from the outside looking in, but this topic needs a support group same as alcohol. There’s a 40+ long page I quit drinking thread where guys are helping each other stop toxic repetitive behavior that leads down a bad road.

Sounds like she’s given up on your relationship from her side. If she has no interest in in having a romantic loving relationship with you then I think she left you first. Sounds like she’s just waiting for you to make the “first” move so she doesn’t have to look like the bad guy.
 
I haven't been through it but came close, I don't know what to say other than don't try to go through it alone, talk to a friend, family member, clergy or professional, I'm sure it will help you, I have an ear if you ever need to chat. Hang in there.
 
mobil1syn said:
kids arent stupid and all you are doing is nomralizing of a broken relationship, so they can repeat it.
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Broncokyle88 said:
Would you rather your child spends half his time with one miserable parent, and the other half with a happy one who can be a positive influence? Or is it better that he’s raised by two miserable people and learns that being full of hate and misery is the norm?

“Staying together for the kids” is one of the worst things parents can do. That shit will fuck up a far child worse in the long term.
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Hrm. Perhaps you're right.

I'm just thinking separate homes, momma's new boyfriend, dad's new girlfriend, new dynamics, and anomalies of having separate families.

My only experience was dating single moms in the past, and I know the separation took its toll on the kid.
 
woods said:
Hrm. Perhaps you're right.

I'm just thinking separate homes, momma's new boyfriend, dad's new girlfriend, new dynamics, and anomalies of having separate families.

My only experience was dating single moms in the past, and I know the separation took its toll on the kid.
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if the parents can act like adults and not be petty then it sholdnt be a big deal. sucking it up to be civil and showing up to your kids birthday party at that his mom throws will have a large impact than sucking it up and staying together for the kids.
 
Damn man, I'm sorry to hear what you're going through but I'm glad you are posting here about it. Keeping all this internal and sucking it up never works out well.

First off, your kids and your immediate family/friends need you healthy and happy. Don't go making any permanent decisions about this TEMPORARY problem. It can get better, and it will get better. You have a life ahead of you worth living for yourself and your kids. Always remember that.

I would highly recommend getting some outside and independent guidance for yourself ASAP. Counseling, therapy, whatever you can get from a professional who doesn't have anything to do with your wife or previous marriage counseling. This is just for yourself to stay on a positive path.

Then consult attorneys. This might just be preliminary, but you need to know what the situation will look like for your legal situation in your state with your assets. Talk to male and female lawyers, find one that you click with.

Then you ultimately have to make that call yourself. I was also a child whose parents had a shitty marriage, separated a couple times, and stuck it out 10+ years longer than they should have. Having at least one happy home would have been better. Sticking it out "for the kids" rarely works out well.
 
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woods said:
Does it really? Huh. Welp. I was wrong then. :homer:
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I didn't say "never", I said "rarely". Which really seems to be true. If a marriage is truly bad enough and one or both spouses are so unhappy that they truly want out, the underlying issues aren't always fixable.
 
Yotota said:
I didn't say "never", I said "rarely". Which really seems to be true. If a marriage is truly bad enough and one or both spouses are so unhappy that they truly want out, the underlying issues aren't always fixable.
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seem like mostly cause they can't get over themselves. I know quite a few couples that probably could have separated but they didn't and just made it work and it works well. More like a business, they each do their own thing but happen to share a house and kids. Take separate vacations, drive separate, one goes to a few of the kids things, other goes to the other. Seems to work and it's different for sure.
 
Weasel said:
seem like mostly cause they can't get over themselves. I know quite a few couples that probably could have separated but they didn't and just made it work and it works well. More like a business, they each do their own thing but happen to share a house and kids. Take separate vacations, drive separate, one goes to a few of the kids things, other goes to the other. Seems to work and it's different for sure.
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Yea, this is what I was meaning.
 
Weasel said:
seem like mostly cause they can't get over themselves. I know quite a few couples that probably could have separated but they didn't and just made it work and it works well. More like a business, they each do their own thing but happen to share a house and kids. Take separate vacations, drive separate, one goes to a few of the kids things, other goes to the other. Seems to work and it's different for sure.
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Damn, that doesn't sound like a happy home at all, it sounds like a cold and distant environment. I guess if neither parent has a side relationship, and both are completely amicable and respectful of each other, and peacefully live together, and are able to be loving towards their children, it could work. But I highly doubt that most people could keep that up for very long.
 
Broncokyle88 said:
As a child of a fucked up marriage and divorce, rip that bandaid off as quickly as you can. The sooner you go your separate ways, the sooner your kids can have a happy home (with you at least) again. Let her spread her wings, and she’ll crash and burn and not break the wheel of misery she’s stuck in. But it won’t be your fault, she can’t blame you to the kids. She can’t channel resentment for you towards the kids. “If I wasn’t married pa boy and stuck raising his kids I’d be sooo happy” isn’t an excuse for her being a ****.

No matter how good you think you are at hiding your problems from your kids, they know something is up. They are probably too young to process what they are seeing as you and I do, but they know something is going on and it’s not good.



Would you rather your child spends half his time with one miserable parent, and the other half with a happy one who can be a positive influence? Or is it better that he’s raised by two miserable people and learns that being full of hate and misery is the norm?

“Staying together for the kids” is one of the worst things parents can do. That shit will fuck up a far child worse in the long term.
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this all of this

staying together when you clearly cant live a happy fulfilling life together is 100% retarded, especially if there is children involved

i grew up wishing my parents would get divorced because they were screaming and fighting CONSTANTLY
 
Weasel said:
seem like mostly cause they can't get over themselves. I know quite a few couples that probably could have separated but they didn't and just made it work and it works well. More like a business, they each do their own thing but happen to share a house and kids. Take separate vacations, drive separate, one goes to a few of the kids things, other goes to the other. Seems to work and it's different for sure.
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I have a bestie that lives like that, it’s so strange to see. Basically it is a loveless marriage. Technically, 2nd marriage, they legally divorced and then remarried.
 
Went through this years ago. Not sure if all states are the same. In dealing with lawyers, talk to the first one and ask for names of lawyers they don’t want to go against in court. Go talk to those lawyers because since you talked to them they can’t take her as a client or you might find the ruthless one you need. Don’t discount a woman lawyer, mine was a badass!
 
Had the talk, nothing changed. Now I just don't care anymore, completely over it. The only thing left to figure out is how not to loose My ass financially.
 
I have only been on one side of this as an adult, but as a child I saw both sides.
My wife and I have had many issues through our 13 years of marriage. We have 3 kids and one on the way. Neither of us thought it would last all this time, but we've been better the last few years (hence the upcoming child). We both have our issues to work on still. We still don't always get along, but that's life.
I have 4 older sisters from my dad's first marriage. I have a brother and a sister from my mother. My brother, sister, and I seem to have less emotional issues than my 4 older sisters, even though their mother remarried to a really good dude who took great care of them. I don't think my wife and I would have put the work into our marriage had our parents not put the work into theirs. Most of the people I grew up with whose parents split didn't have as good of an outcome as those whose parents stayed together, even if they ultimately got a divorce when the kids hit adulthood.
Statistically, kids who are products of homes of divorce do not do as well as those whose parents stayed married. You can find several studies on this. All the evidence that kids are better off if their parents divorce is anecdotal.
That being said, you have to evaluate your own situation. Some things break and cannot be fixed. All the advice everyone has given you if it's time is probably valid when it comes to lawyers and custody. Dave Ramsey has said this multiple times, and it's probably correct: "Divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction". Once it's time to split up, you are now in a contract dispute. No matter what the lawyer says though, keep your kids at the forefront of your decision making (not that you probably needed that advice).
 
Yotota said:
Damn, that doesn't sound like a happy home at all, it sounds like a cold and distant environment. I guess if neither parent has a side relationship, and both are completely amicable and respectful of each other, and peacefully live together, and are able to be loving towards their children, it could work. But I highly doubt that most people could keep that up for very long.
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yeah don't think most could do it. It's not cold or distant. They know where the other person is or going. They get along fine and don't yell or get in fights it's just a very different way of doing things. You almost don't notice unless you hang around the family alot.
 
Sadness, anger then indifference.
 
gunracer1 said:
I have never seen it without thinking she was getting greener pastures. if she has the itch, let her go. no reason to keep miserable trying to please someone who doesn't want to be around you,
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Werd. My ex sure thought life would be peaches and cream without me around. :laughing:


I've posted my best advice on this before but I'll toss it down again.

I didn't realize how miserable I was until I wasn't. It can creep up on you if you aren't paying attention. I know how bad it was looking back now, shit was terrible and if I'd just seen how it really was I'd have called it a couple years before she did.
 
Man such great advice so far. Sometimes I feel guilty, shame, obligation. She says she knew it was bad from the start and kicks herself for it. And that she stuck with it for 8 years, and now that I’m paying attention and working on it, it’s not fair to expect change.

at the same token this is marriage 2. Her first one was a “Power position” and she felt alone and had no choice. Lots of issues with men that she hasn’t processed really until the past year...
 
pennsylvaniaboy said:
Man such great advice so far. Sometimes I feel guilty, shame, obligation. She says she knew it was bad from the start and kicks herself for it. And that she stuck with it for 8 years, and now that I’m paying attention and working on it, it’s not fair to expect change.

at the same token this is marriage 2. Her first one was a “Power position” and she felt alone and had no choice. Lots of issues with men that she hasn’t processed really until the past year...
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No offense, but fuck her for saying that shit to you. "I knew it was bad from the start, but stuck it out for 8 years".

That such a petty chicken shit thing to say to someone
 
pennsylvaniaboy said:
Man such great advice so far. Sometimes I feel guilty, shame, obligation. She says she knew it was bad from the start and kicks herself for it. And that she stuck with it for 8 years, and now that I’m paying attention and working on it, it’s not fair to expect change.

at the same token this is marriage 2. Her first one was a “Power position” and she felt alone and had no choice. Lots of issues with men that she hasn’t processed really until the past year...
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There will be a LOT of those feelings for a while but you'll process through them and be a better man for it in the end. The phrase "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" didn't come from nowhere. She may be mary fucking poppins but she will still drop little bits of spite now and again any time she thinks you're getting through things better than she is.
 
Broncokyle88 said:
As a child of a fucked up marriage and divorce, rip that bandaid off as quickly as you can. The sooner you go your separate ways, the sooner your kids can have a happy home (with you at least) again. Let her spread her wings, and she’ll crash and burn and not break the wheel of misery she’s stuck in. But it won’t be your fault, she can’t blame you to the kids. She can’t channel resentment for you towards the kids. “If I wasn’t married pa boy and stuck raising his kids I’d be sooo happy” isn’t an excuse for her being a ****.

No matter how good you think you are at hiding your problems from your kids, they know something is up. They are probably too young to process what they are seeing as you and I do, but they know something is going on and it’s not good.



Would you rather your child spends half his time with one miserable parent, and the other half with a happy one who can be a positive influence? Or is it better that he’s raised by two miserable people and learns that being full of hate and misery is the norm?

“Staying together for the kids” is one of the worst things parents can do. That shit will fuck up a far child worse in the long term.
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Everything he said. When they split, sure I didn't understand, and I remember now at 41 years old waking up the night dad was leaving and crying and begging him to stay and saying I'd be better, I was sorry, don't go. It had nothing to do with me and I know that now, but in that moment yeah it sucked like that. I wound up very lucky though. My stepmom is great, dad is happy now, mom is happy now, and despite the weird custody moving back and forth thing as a child, I overall have no complaints. If they'd stayed together I know I'd be far more fucked up than I am right now.
 
DWT said:
I didn't realize how miserable I was until I wasn't. It can creep up on you if you aren't paying attention. I know how bad it was looking back now, shit was terrible and if I'd just seen how it really was I'd have called it a couple years before she did.
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That really resounds with me. A couple of months after we split the sheets all of my friends, family coworkers etc. were telling me they got the old me back. They hadn't seen me happier in many years. I too didn't realize it as the misery crept up slowly enough to really get a hold on me.

I took a vow back then that no matter what I would never ever let that happen again in any area of my life, I keep a close eye on this still all these years later.
 
POR said:
No.... I'm not.. they make terrible defenders of men
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Eh, I dunno about all that.

The most badass, premium divorce lawyer in this area is a chick. She usually only takes dudes. She murders bitches. Married females in this town tremble just hearing her name.
 
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