Buggy weights, what ya'll got?

[woody]

Cracks me up a bit when guys go all out on light axles, just to fill the tires with water

To a point....the ability to control where the weight is positioned is helpful. I'd far prefer it inside the tire close to the ground than with an oversized truss on top of the housing.

At the end of the day, rig weight is less important than your front/rear weight bias. 60/40 is a proven winner. I know a few builders who literally build their cars on the scales to ensure where the weight ends up.

 

[desertPOS]

4,860 lbs. according to the local scrapyard scale - little more than I would have thought.

Two 35" spares, hilift, co2 tank, small toolbag, myself and about 10 gallons of fuel when weighed fyi. Roof tube is all .120 wall
Rock sliders are all .250 wall (both are slightly bent)
.120 wall bumpers/engine cage/roll cage
22re, 5 spd manual, Marlin dual cases w/4.7 in rear case
stereo, sub, amp, vinyl floor and butyl insulation layers
heavy wall front driveshaft, standard weight rear
14" front, 12" rear shocks w/ resevoirs
heavily trussed axles f&r with detroits

 

[Treefrog]

60/40 is a proven winner.

I heard 50/50 was becoming more popular. Any truth to that?

 

[bdkw1]

I heard 50/50 was becoming more popular. Any truth to that?

A lot of desert trucks are more than 50% rear. Helps carry the front through the whoops better. Anything mid engine like Porters or RG's truck is like 40/60.

 

[Treefrog]

A lot of desert trucks are more than 50% rear. Helps carry the front through the whoops better. Anything mid engine like Porters or RG's truck is like 40/60.

So a U4 rig is probably 50/50, but crawlers are trending 60/40?

 

[bdkw1]

Yeah where is this is? Land Rover forum?

Desert Rangers. If it stays dead this time I will start one here.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Desert Rangers. If it stays dead this time I will start one here.

Link please

 

[woody]

I heard 50/50 was becoming more popular. Any truth to that?

No one I wheel or comp with is anything but close to 60/40. Maybe 58/42. Even the rear-engine single seaters. I know Kalif personally like to run without water and less front bias, but he's his own game ;)

The bias has obvious advantages for climbs, and seems to have minimal downsides for descents or dropping into cracks. The BIG stuff gets backed off anyways. Rear suck-down winches are becoming more common too and certainly have a place for "flat" forward drops. The more articulation-type drops favor some rear tension, but still allowing the rear to articulate.

This is the drop from SlipNSlide (Trailbreaker 2021), Stage 2 gate 1. This drop can be done forward, but be quick to drive out.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Weight, or rather the lack of, plays a huge factor in performance. My SxS was a good example of this. I kicked ass racing against guys with built motors with a stock motor because my car weighed a lot less. While they were worried about squeezing every oz of power out of their motors while having cages, bumpers and nerf bars made out of .120 tube and running heavy suspension components and wheels, I was cutting every possible thing I could think of off my car and installing the lightest parts i could find/build all in an effort to make it quicker by making it lighter. It totally worked and my car also handled better than their high HP fat pigs.

120 wall is so overkill for anything on sxs like that

I mean the frame is 00030 so what's the point 120 cage

 

[YotaAtieToo]

To a point....the ability to control where the weight is positioned is helpful. I'd far prefer it inside the tire close to the ground than with an oversized truss on top of the housing.

At the end of the day, rig weight is less important than your front/rear weight bias. 60/40 is a proven winner. I know a few builders who literally build their cars on the scales to ensure where the weight ends up.

Yes, I get that. Especially with portals.

I was more referring to guys on some what of a budget.

Edit: maybe, even that wasn't worded right. You and your group is basically striving for every possible advantage. Most trail guys would probably be fine with "heavy" axles, and maybe a little less water?

 

[Cheepin]

I need to weigh my CJ buggy thing. 2x3 tube frame, SBC,465,205, 14,d60 on 40's. Hoping for under 4500#. When I first built it. It had 4 fullsize seats, 20 gallon tank with 1/8" skid plate. 16 gauge sheetmetal totally enclosing the rear seats. Now its a 2 seater with a 12 gallon tank above the frame. No 16 gauge sheetmetal. Lost enough weight in the rear that I had to use 4wd more then I used to on milder trails. Used to run 2wd LO until I needed 4wd. I built a box to carry tools and liquids and put it as far back as I could above the frame. This helped.

 

[Bebop]

I think just being wieght conscious at all is a big step. You see guys that aren't at all, and just use 1/4 plate everywhere, thicker this and that, extra bar here, ect and end up with giant pigs.

I'm not going to every length possible personally. But I'll cut wieght where I can. Using 090 or 065 on bracing bars helps. Lots of tabs can be 1/8 or 3/16. Speed holes, ect. I also don't care too much about unsprung wieght on a crawler. Cracks me up a bit when guys go all out on light axles, just to fill the tires with water

Depends what it is and what it's for.

I've got buddy with a 4900lbs buggy. Looks like every other tube buggy out there. Whyyyy? Mind blown.

But when you look up close, the link tabs are 3/8, there is .188 tubing everywhere and the belly is made of .250 with extra tubes etc.

You know what ?

After 6 years his shit is straight as an arrow with only scuffs on the powder.

Mine, made out of .120 and "light" stuff, anything that touches a rock is bent after 3 years. I just shifted the whole belly 1" sideways after landing on it.

I'd trade off some weight for peace of mind, provided the goal is not racing...

Other option is more expensive materials, in order to up the strength without adding weight. Chromo, HT, AR plate etc...

Or if you're racing, rebuilding is part of the maintenance.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Depends what it is and what it's for.

I've got buddy with a 4900lbs buggy. Looks like every other tube buggy out there. Whyyyy? Mind blown.

But when you look up close, the link tabs are 3/8, there is .188 tubing everywhere and the belly is made of .250 with extra tubes etc.

You know what ?

After 6 years his shit is straight as an arrow with only scuffs on the powder.

Mine, made out of .120 and "light" stuff, anything that touches a rock is bent after 3 years. I just shifted the whole belly 1" sideways after landing on it.

I'd trade off some weight for peace of mind, provided the goal is not racing...

Other option is more expensive materials, in order to up the strength without adding weight. Chromo, HT, AR plate etc...

Or if you're racing, rebuilding is part of the maintenance.

Adding beef where you know you need it, but not just blindly making everything out of heavy material is still reasonable.

He probably didn't mount his cup holders with 3/8" tabs and 250 tube though.

Obviously rock bouncers are more about just having a good time than saving every ounce.

Have you guys had good luck with slugging belly tubing with aluminum to help it from denting?

Edit: on that note, is 120 wall slugged with solid aluminum even lighter than the same size 250 wall? off to google

 

[Bebop]

Have you guys had good luck with slugging belly tubing with aluminum to help it from denting?

Edit: on that note, is 120 wall slugged with solid aluminum even lighter than the same size 250 wall? off to google

Not if you bend the tubes in the belly. Slugging only works if you miter things.

.120 slugged will resist better to denting than .250 but will bend easier. I think.

Someone wants to fact check this?

 

[arse_sidewards]

But when you look up close, the link tabs are 3/8, there is .188 tubing everywhere and the belly is made of .250 with extra tubes etc.

You know what ?

After 6 years his shit is straight as an arrow with only scuffs on the powder.

Mine, made out of .120 and "light" stuff, anything that touches a rock is bent after 3 years. I just shifted the whole belly 1" sideways after landing on it.

I'd trade off some weight for peace of mind, provided the goal is not racing...

Hence why every streetable rig winds up being stupid heavy.

Nobody wants to rip a link tab off yeeting their pos over the tracks.

 

[Bebop]

Hence why every streetable rig winds up being stupid heavy.

Nobody wants to rip a link tab off yeeting their pos over the tracks.

Streetable rigs are heavy because of the body, creature comfort and stock frame.

No buggy owner wants to rip off a link mount either.

 

[white-rhino]

Streetable rigs are heavy because of the body, creature comfort and stock frame.

No buggy owner wants to rip off a link mount either.

Yep. I bent my front D60. Straightened it and bent it again. That's when I decided the typical front truss was not for me. Many people would say my mod is overkill. I don't care. The extra 25# that I put in it pretty much guarantees it won't ever bend again. Can I keep up with a lightweight rear steer buggy? No. Can I run 90% of the lines I want to run? Well, that depends on driver error.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Streetable rigs are heavy because of the body, creature comfort and stock frame.

No buggy owner wants to rip off a link mount either.

Nobody wants to break shit but designing things to just barely be good enough is easier to justify to yourself when there's no potential for having to tow your shit back home from potentially hundreds of miles away with a chance of having to interact with law enforcement while you're waiting for that to happen.

 

[Slander]

Hence why every streetable rig winds up being stupid heavy.

Nobody wants to rip a link tab off yeeting their pos over the tracks.

Yup, me cracking a section of my frame off or breaking a leaf mount off at 75+ in the highway has a little more higher stakes than doing the same in the woods!

 

[Sterlingfire]

Yep. I bent my front D60. Straightened it and bent it again. That's when I decided the typical front truss was not for me. Many people would say my mod is overkill. I don't care. The extra 25# that I put in it pretty much guarantees it won't ever bend it again. Can I keep up with a lightweight rear steer buggy? No. Can I run 90% of the lines I want to run? Well, that depends on driver error.

Most of the trusses offered by aftermarket companies are not really trusses. They are more or less link mounts. A real truss goes under the axle tubes and ties the knuckles to the diff. Setting a truss in tension will make the tubes more resistant to bending moments. You just lose a bunch of ground clearance for crawling. That's why you don't see it often in our world.

 

[06h3]

My rig is streetable and even if it wasn’t I’d gladly add 100 lbs to make sure it doesn’t break.

I have broken off-road and on road and both suck. Off-road sucks even more. No tow truck is coming for you.

 

[ridered3]

Most of the trusses offered by aftermarket companies are not really trusses. They are more or less link mounts. A real truss goes under the axle tubes and ties the knuckles to the diff. Setting a truss in tension will make the tubes more resistant to bending moments. You just lose a bunch of ground clearance for crawling. That's why you don't see it often in our world.

Artec now offers a “lower truss” that attempts to do exactly what you are talking about and it looks super strange for crawlers due to lesser ground clearance.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Artec now offers a “lower truss” that attempts to do exactly what you are talking about and it looks super strange for crawlers due to lesser ground clearance.

Probably not aimed at crawlers since basically no one uses that axle in crawlers.

 

[Sterlingfire]

Probably not aimed at crawlers since basically no one uses that axle in crawlers.

For pulling trucks. I assume so when they pull their front tires off the ground under heavy load they don't come crashing back down and do the splits with the front wheels.
Desert trucks more often run them then crawlers do as well. They just don't make crawling any better at all. It's like a big blade on the bottom of your axle, but you'd see less bent axles if we used them... it's not a take the good with the bad kind of situation for us.

 

[ridered3]

Probably not aimed at crawlers since basically no one uses that axle in crawlers.

My thoughts as well. I imagine they offer it for other axles but it was the easiest one to get a screenshot of.

Edit: now I’m getting advertisements on the socialist medias for the lower truss for Super Duty axles…

 

[94toytruck]

I guessed 4k or less on the first page, I was pretty close. 3rz/W56/ultimate duals, 40s, tons, coilovers and air bumps, full 15gallon cell, .120 thick panels and steel hood grill all covered in Killmat.

 

[Bebop]

Nobody wants to break shit but designing things to just barely be good enough is easier to justify to yourself when you're an idiot.

FIFY

Yep. I bent my front D60. Straightened it and bent it again. That's when I decided the typical front truss was not for me. Many people would say my mod is overkill. I don't care. The extra 25# that I put in it pretty much guarantees it won't ever bend again. Can I keep up with a lightweight rear steer buggy? No. Can I run 90% of the lines I want to run? Well, that depends on driver error. /https://data.irate4x4.com/assets/smilies/thefinger.gif

What is it that you did ?

My idea was .500 tubing and a full C to C truss. I don't think my axle is bending.

 

[Bebop]

I guessed 4k or less on the first page, I was pretty close. 3rz/W56/ultimate duals, 40s, tons, coilovers and air bumps, full 15gallon cell, .120 thick panels and steel hood grill all covered in Killmat.

Looks reaaaally good

 

[white-rhino]

What is it that you did ?

There are 3 pics here with description
post #8

Build - 49 Willys buggy - bought not built but highly modified afterwards

This is not really a build thread but more of a continued work in progress. I did not build this rig but rather bought it turn key. Whatever that means. :) I think it's really important to state that there are very few people in this world who are experts at everything. Some are...

www.rockcrawler.com

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

I guessed 4k or less on the first page, I was pretty close. 3rz/W56/ultimate duals, 40s, tons, coilovers and air bumps, full 15gallon cell, .120 thick panels and steel hood grill all covered in Killmat.

you should really make a thread on that thing. I love the way it looks.