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Alec Baldwin Shot a Lady

CrustyJeep said:
That's pretty much exactly what would have happened if there was even the slightest reason to suspect this might not have been an accident. I have seen/heard nothing whatsoever to give anyone that suspicion in this case.
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So in the interview, he said he didn’t pull the trigger. That statement right there gives me reason to suspect it might not be an accident. Could that hold up in court? I doubt it, but it sure as shit needs investigated.

I find strange how several of you guys keep bringing up “the movie industry”. Substitute “the oil industry”. When someone points a gun at someone and pulls the trigger, would you say “I’ve never been on a oil platform, so I’m not sure what’s reasonable and customary”

I will agree with you crusty that what feel is reasonable might be different that what you do and what they can prove in a court of law. Im not trying to railroad AB, I just think anybody else would (and should) be arrested.

An obvious accident would be him shooting straight up and hitting someone as the bullet fell. He couldn’t have possibly known who it would hit. In this case he hit exactly who he aimed at.
 
WaterH said:
An obvious accident would be him shooting straight up and hitting someone as the bullet fell. He couldn’t have possibly known who it would hit. In this case he hit exactly who he aimed at.
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Pointing a gun you know is loaded into the air and pulling the trigger is a clear case of gross negligence. Jesus Fucking Christ :shaking:
 
WaterH said:
So in the interview, he said he didn’t pull the trigger. That statement right there gives me reason to suspect it might not be an accident. Could that hold up in court? I doubt it, but it sure as shit needs investigated.

I find strange how several of you guys keep bringing up “the movie industry”. Substitute “the oil industry”. When someone points a gun at someone and pulls the trigger, would you say “I’ve never been on a oil platform, so I’m not sure what’s reasonable and customary”

I will agree with you crusty that what feel is reasonable might be different that what you do and what they can prove in a court of law. Im not trying to railroad AB, I just think anybody else would (and should) be arrested.

An obvious accident would be him shooting straight up and hitting someone as the bullet fell. He couldn’t have possibly known who it would hit. In this case he hit exactly who he aimed at.
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Are guns typically used on an oil platform in the production process which is part of typical industry standards?

WTF are you even talking about right now
 
Texas97 said:
How do you know it "might not have been an accident" if you don't investigate? Do the police respond assuming it's an accident first? Or is that assumption something afforded to very rich people only?
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You don't know, but you don't arrest someone unless there's probable cause. Shooting someone with a prop gun on the set of a movie when the scene calls for a gun, in and of itself, is not probable cause to believe the shooting was intentional.
 
CrustyJeep said:
You don't know, but you don't arrest someone unless there's probable cause. Shooting someone with a prop gun on the set of a movie when the scene calls for a gun, in and of itself, is not probable cause to believe the shooting was intentional.
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you have a dead woman and a person who was holding a gun that pointed it at her, how is that not probable cause? there's been probable cause on MUCH LESS. They could have easily said "well, we need to test your hand for powder residue to see if you are actually the shooter", take him down, print him, test him, draw some blood for toxicology. ALL OF IT.

they dont have to have charges, they can arrest without charges, hold him for the max time the law allows (usually its 24 hours) without charges and then release him as a person of interest in the case.

So, the cops get to make the call right there on the spot that its an accident and not to detain him?
 
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here is how i see the defense running this and how Alex may not get convicted of anything.

Baldwin says (and or his lawyers and defense): The gun was handed to me by the armorer and i was explicitly told it was a "cold gun", meaning not loaded. it is standard industry practice that the armorer gives the guns to the actors and they rely on him for that information. Here are 4 other experienced movie armorers who say the same thing. The actors do not check the guns on the set as that is the job of the armorer as is standard on all movie sets.

Prosecution says: He was negligent because he didnt check the weapon, here are 4 armorers and other actors who say they always check the weapon thats handed to them and thats standard industry practice to do so.

and the jury will get to decide who is telling the truth and who is most believable.



Now, i dont see any other actors testifying against him. i just dont see it happening.

what i think is getting lost in all this is this is a jobsite and its a work-related accident. because of that, it may alter who is the responsible party for the loaded gun.

put aside what you know as a gun owner and the safety that you practice. i think this has to be looked at through a work accident lens.
 
Texas97 said:
what i think is getting lost in all this is this is a jobsite and its a work-related accident. because of that, it may alter who is the responsible party for the loaded gun.

put aside what you know as a gun owner and the safety that you practice. i think this has to be looked at through a work accident lens.
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We agree, and that's pretty much exactly what I and a small handful of others have been saying all along.
 
CrustyJeep said:
Pointing a gun you know is loaded into the air and pulling the trigger is a clear case of gross negligence. Jesus Fucking Christ :shaking:
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That's exactly what AB did he never bothered to check the pistol to see it was loaded. All guns are treated as loaded until proven otherwise so he knowingly pointed a loaded pistol at someone. How hard is this to understand?
 
Baldy said:
That's exactly what AB did he never bothered to check the pistol to see it was loaded. All guns are treated as loaded until proven otherwise so he knowingly pointed a loaded pistol at someone. How hard is this to understand?
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Is it standard industry practice for him to check the gun when it's handed to him? Was he in his home or was it considered a job site?

Here's a noodle baker for you: Does it matter that Baldwin wasn't the owner of the gun?
 
CrustyJeep said:
We agree, and that's pretty much exactly what I and a small handful of others have been saying all along.
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Well I haven't followed every page of this 26 page shit show thread, so I don't know what's been said already.

Everyone keeps trying to treat the situation like it was Joe Schmo in his garage with his privately owned weapon.
 
Texas97 said:
Are guns typically used on an oil platform in the production process which is part of typical industry standards?

WTF are you even talking about right now
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My point is the reasonable and customary safety standards apply to the gun. It doesn’t matter what industry your working in.

There are rules for working at certain heights that require a harness. It doesn’t matter if your climbing trees or oil platforms, they still apply.

Question, it seems I heard that the armorer claimed she didn’t give him a loaded weapon. Is this so? Because if it is, then someone is lying. You all are doing the same thing as the police, assuming that this is a mistake. Maybe the armorer was incompetent. But what if she’s telling the truth and AB slipped a round in the gun when no one was looking? This could be out and out murder. Not saying it is, but it dam sure should be investigated.

Ive handed a loaded gun to someone and had them point it at a man sized target 10 feet away. They missed. Amazing how AB could make a kill shot when he wasn’t even trying.
 
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I work at a gun range. We rent guns. All our guns are kept solidly locked such that the trigger can not be pulled or the weapon loaded. It is standard practice to clear the weapon before locking it up.

If I assume that the gun is clear before renting it out because it is supposed to be clear and it turns out to be loaded and someone gets hurt, I would not have much of a case to blame it on someone else.
 
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WaterH said:
My point is the reasonable and customary safety standards apply to the gun. It doesn’t matter what industry your working in.

There are rules for working at certain heights that require a harness. It doesn’t matter if your climbing trees or oil platforms, they still apply.
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Are reasonable gun safety standards applicable for police officers in the line of duty? They are pointing a loaded gun at someone, does it matter if they are on duty or off?

The "rules" are different for climbing a tree or platform if you are doing so as part of your job, what if you climb trees on your personal time? Does OSHA come fine you in your yard?

Do you see the difference? I'm shooting holes all in your strawman arguments
 
Sorry but no...

If you cause someones death at your home or your work you are just as liable.


Your argument is full of holes.

And at the same time you are shooting blanks.


Texas97 said:
Are reasonable gun safety standards applicable for police officers in the line of duty? They are pointing a loaded gun at someone, does it matter if they are on duty or off?

The "rules" are different for climbing a tree or platform if you are doing so as part of your job, what if you climb trees on your personal time? Does OSHA come fine you in your yard?

Do you see the difference? I'm shooting holes all in your strawman arguments
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PAE said:
Sorry but no...

If you cause someones death at your home or your work you are just as liable.


Your argument is full of holes.

And at the same time you are shooting blanks.
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You're liable or your employer's liable? Were you following company guidelines? Were you using company provided equipment they certified was safe?

What if you are involved in someone's death on a 3rd party's property using tools/equipment/recreational items that belonged to someone else? Are you responsible? The answer is, it depends.
 
plym49.2 said:
I work at a gun range. We rent guns. All our guns are kept solidly locked such that the trigger can not be pulled or the weapon loaded. It is standard practice to clear the weapon before locking it up.

If I assume that the gun is clear before renting it out because it is supposed to be clear and it turns out to be loaded and someone gets hurt, I would not have much of a case to blame it on someone else.
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Excellent scenario. Let's use this as a hypothetical.

You work there, your job is to make sure the guns are not loaded before locking them up. What if one is not, and you hand that gun to a customer telling them it's not loaded. Good common gun handling safety says you should have cleared the gun, and they should have cleared the gun as soon as it was handed to them. But neither did and the gun goes bang, ricochet hits and kills another employee.

Whose criminally responsible? The trained expert who works there or the dumb customer who was handed a loaded gun?

There's right, wrong and what's legal. Sometimes they overlap
 
So, why hasn't the person who handed the gun to Baldwin been charged yet? It can't be that difficult to investigate this. Seems to me they are just trying to let this slide until it's forgotten.
 
poncho62 said:
So, why hasn't the person who handed the gun to Baldwin been charged yet? It can't be that difficult to investigate this. Seems to me they are just trying to let this slide until it's forgotten.
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Pretty certain they already exclaimed the investigation was going to take months. Cuz they're human of course... or lame af.
 
trampas said:
Pretty certain they already exclaimed the investigation was going to take months. Cuz they're human of course... or lame af.
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There are IA safety bulletins that pertain to firearms on set, and SAG/Stunts have their own. Armorers have their own protocols, but these are all guidelines/rules, not laws. Then you have the fine print in everyones contracts. You have people who were involved with the firearms that quit shortly before this happened. Then you have production companies that are designed to be dissolved at the end of filming to limit any financial obligations. Then you have people who are probably not cooperating with the investigation. I have never been involved with any other business that embraces The Blame Game and passing the buck the way that the film business does, and ill bet that is driving the cops nuts. I have heard from reliable sources that several key things that have been reported are in dispute. I am not the least bit surprised that charges have not yet been filed.
Questions for you legal experts :eek:, how does breaking industry rules and standards effect criminal charges in a case like this in New Mexico? Is allowing a live round in the gun a criminal offense or just workplace negligence? Is handling a gun you are not supposed to touch and declaring it cold criminal or negligence? Is not taking any precautions to assure that a gun you were handed as cold by someone who was not authorized to make that statement negligence or criminal? In the larger context was the producers and 1st AD who were in charge of this debacle criminally liable?
 
ChiScouter said:
I have never been involved with any other business that embraces The Blame Game and passing the buck the way that the film business does, and ill bet that is driving the cops nuts.
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I'm not surprised one bit. Of all the businessmen i've met, and that's not a whole lot, the Hollywood types are a shifty greedy untrustworthy lot. Who happen to be Jewish.
 
WaterH said:
An obvious accident would be him shooting straight up and hitting someone as the bullet fell. He couldn’t have possibly known who it would hit. In this case he hit exactly who he aimed at.
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That would be negligent discharge of a firearm and you can catch a felony and 3+ yrs. But nice try..
 
Texas97 said:
Are reasonable gun safety standards applicable for police officers in the line of duty? They are pointing a loaded gun at someone, does it matter if they are on duty or off?

The "rules" are different for climbing a tree or platform if you are doing so as part of your job, what if you climb trees on your personal time? Does OSHA come fine you in your yard?

Do you see the difference? I'm shooting holes all in your strawman arguments
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Yes, safety standards do apply to officers at all times. They should not be pointing guns at people unless they deem them a threat. (Same as everyone else)

OSHA is only for work. But if you have a friend climb your tree without a harness to cut some limbs, and he gets hurt, you will be liable.

Texas97 said:
Excellent scenario. Let's use this as a hypothetical.

You work there, your job is to make sure the guns are not loaded before locking them up. What if one is not, and you hand that gun to a customer telling them it's not loaded. Good common gun handling safety says you should have cleared the gun, and they should have cleared the gun as soon as it was handed to them. But neither did and the gun goes bang, ricochet hits and kills another employee.

Whose criminally responsible? The trained expert who works there or the dumb customer who was handed a loaded gun?

There's right, wrong and what's legal. Sometimes they overlap
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If a ricochet kills someone, I would say that, all but, rules out murder. If that same scenario, but direct shot, it needs to be fully investigated. Do you understand how easy two people could conspire to kill someone like that? But if someone must go down for manslaughter, it’s not a very good plan.


TatonkaII said:
That would be negligent discharge of a firearm and you can catch a felony and 3+ yrs. But nice try..
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I think ND has to be “on purpose”, so if he claims he thought it was empty, probably accident. Either way, My point is I know that is not murder. It doesn’t need major investigation.
 
WaterH said:
I think ND has to be “on purpose”, so if he claims he thought it was empty, probably accident. Either way, My point is I know that is not murder. It doesn’t need major investigation.
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An ND is firing the gun irresponsibly in violation of one or more of the 4 basic safety rules. An AD is no longer used by most firearms instructors, as that is automatically an ND.

As far as the investigation goes, it's going to center on how live rounds made it on set and into the weapon. I dislike AB as much as anyone, and he's going through Hell with this whole thing, but unless he's tied to the live ammo somehow, it's going to be ruled an accident...I think.
 
Roc Doc said:
As far as the investigation goes, it's going to center on how live rounds made it on set and into the weapon. I dislike AB as much as anyone, and he's going through Hell with this whole thing, but unless he's tied to the live ammo somehow, it's going to be ruled an accident...I think.
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Get out of here with this common sense
 
Just so you know, it’s right wingers fault for all the negative coverage of him (I say karma and he don’t like eating crow after all the shit he did to other people)

It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling watching him squirm like a little bitch that he is.

He won’t turn over his cell phone even tho they have issued a warrant for it. He’s digging his own grave snd he’s too arrogant to see it

WATCH: Unhinged Alec Baldwin Says Only Way to "Honor" The Woman He Killed Is To "Find Out The Truth" - Blames "Right Wing Hate" and 1/6 For Negative Coverage
 
Landslide said:
Just so you know, it’s right wingers fault for all the negative coverage of him (I say karma and he don’t like eating crow after all the shit he did to other people)

It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling watching him squirm like a little bitch that he is.

He won’t turn over his cell phone even tho they have issued a warrant for it. He’s digging his own grave snd he’s too arrogant to see it

WATCH: Unhinged Alec Baldwin Says Only Way to "Honor" The Woman He Killed Is To "Find Out The Truth" - Blames "Right Wing Hate" and 1/6 For Negative Coverage
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He's guilty as fuck, we know it, the law knows it and he knows it, he will be judged at the pearly gates I guess :flipoff2:
 
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