TrikeKid
Junk Hoarder
Interested to see how the 6R80/Quick-6 performs, considering putting a 6R80 in my F-100 behind the 390.
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1972 F-250 2wd to 4wd build
- Thread starter rattle_snake
- Start date
reptillikus
ate lug
Yes that is the VSS that ships with DD dash kit. The 6R80 doesn't require a VSS signal, it generates the VSS and has an pulse output that can be used by the DD. I ran the 6R VSS wire to the DD so I can delete the dedicated sensor at some point. Yes I am using the quick 6, it has an input for low range and will compensate speed signal. ratios are programmable.
But the single input wire also does transbrake so likely use it for that. Can't wait to launch on nitrous with new setup
I knew you could program the Quick 6 for low range, but i didnt know the 6R80 has its own VSS?! Not having an electronic speed sensor in my bronco was my biggest hangup to putting one in. Clearly I need to read up on this more
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Its just time and money.....
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Continuing on the trans controller wiring. Not a lot of wires but a lot of work to do a high quality job. Must be robust to be reliable, trans is safety critical in my opinion. Controller needs TPS data to calculate load and line pressures so using existing one on the Sniper EFI. TPS signal is sensitive to offset (thinks accel pedal is no longer at rest position) so grounding is important, as that is the reference. EFI and trans controller grounds are connected as close to Sniper as possible, at connector. Had to do a deep dive into engine harness to rework.
Switched power (start+run) was on a light gauge wire to sniper, as it has internal power relay. Replaced that wire with larger 16 ga back to source connector, as the Quick6 draws a fair amount of current to drive the shift solenoids. I ran the TPS signal wire in engine harness with A/C clutch and distributor trigger. No pics, as it looks same as before.
I found a few solutions for tapping into the TPS itself. US shift has a harness with a TPS output filter built in $75. Can get an extension cable and cut that up to tap in. Both have bulky connectors, cost money and would take time to get. So being the frugal and impatient engineer I am, I modified the existing wiring for a clean and minimal solution.
TPS wire is short, about 3", and 2" of that in a sealed jacket I didn't want to disrupt. To work with the inch of exposed wire I de-pinned the one I needed, which also allows adhesive heat shrink to be slipped on to seal back up nicely. I cut off a small section of only the insulation, and wrapped & secured the tap wire to it mechanically. Then solder, and a good cleaning to remove all the flux. Typically I use crimps, as some fluxes (as they are an oxidizer) will corrode the shit out the wiring if not cleaned. Not a fan of no-clean type either.
To finish off I used a single pin weatherpack connector so the Sniper can be removed easily.
Switched power (start+run) was on a light gauge wire to sniper, as it has internal power relay. Replaced that wire with larger 16 ga back to source connector, as the Quick6 draws a fair amount of current to drive the shift solenoids. I ran the TPS signal wire in engine harness with A/C clutch and distributor trigger. No pics, as it looks same as before.
I found a few solutions for tapping into the TPS itself. US shift has a harness with a TPS output filter built in $75. Can get an extension cable and cut that up to tap in. Both have bulky connectors, cost money and would take time to get. So being the frugal and impatient engineer I am, I modified the existing wiring for a clean and minimal solution.
TPS wire is short, about 3", and 2" of that in a sealed jacket I didn't want to disrupt. To work with the inch of exposed wire I de-pinned the one I needed, which also allows adhesive heat shrink to be slipped on to seal back up nicely. I cut off a small section of only the insulation, and wrapped & secured the tap wire to it mechanically. Then solder, and a good cleaning to remove all the flux. Typically I use crimps, as some fluxes (as they are an oxidizer) will corrode the shit out the wiring if not cleaned. Not a fan of no-clean type either.
To finish off I used a single pin weatherpack connector so the Sniper can be removed easily.
Barkbeetle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2022
- Member Number
- 5856
- Messages
- 60
Just went through your entire build thread. Epic! Old Fords are my favorite. Keep up the awesome work.
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Thanks! Trying to finish up trans job so I can drive it....
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
6R80's have a very short dipstick that can only be accesses from beneath. I want firewall access to check and fill fluid dipstick provides, so had to dig deep in my pocket, $250. 💸
AN8 hose is a bit long, not going to change now so made a bracket using an existing bolt on firewall that prevented a trap in the hose. Hopefully a funnel will fit with hood on.
And these showed up 💸
AN8 hose is a bit long, not going to change now so made a bracket using an existing bolt on firewall that prevented a trap in the hose. Hopefully a funnel will fit with hood on.
And these showed up 💸
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Didn't want to continue to use a generic flex hose for upper radiator. It works OK, but just not up to standards.
Searched local Autozone and then O'Reilly's and found a suitable hose. Not perfect but trimmed it up, better than before.
Cross ref says 7.3 power stroke app.
Searched local Autozone and then O'Reilly's and found a suitable hose. Not perfect but trimmed it up, better than before.
Cross ref says 7.3 power stroke app.
Projectjunkie
Whatever
Specs on the rear leafs?
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Alcan built cheby 63s. 10 leaf, +7" arch and weight capacity same as 1972 F250 (whatever that is).
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Last step other than shift buttons was to fill all the fluids and see what leaks. Easy to get hundreds of dollars in just fluids and gaskets on a project like this.
Went synthetic in transfer case this time. Now that it is clocked up a bit the fluid capacity at fill hole is less. I don't think it is enough to worry about and over fill through speedo hole, but for those who clock 205s up all the way certainly do.
Trans is supposed to hold 13 qts of Mercon LV in the F150. I put 5 in and started engine to pump out pan into converter and so on. Then repeated with smaller amounts until I had 9 in.
Filling trans through the AN8 line was slow and doesn't allow air out at same time. Case vent can't keep up and flow slows, so let it burp every pint or so. Can't imagine trying to fill and check from underneath blocked by hot exhaust.
Shifted through gears and it actually moved!
Pulled it outside and let it run while adding a quart at a time until I had 13 in but still didn't read on stick. Drove it a short distance enough to get to shift. Hood is still sitting on bed rails so no evasive maneuvers. Was late so called it a victory.
Nothing leaking out which is a miracle for me. Seems the oil pan leak is resolved, which is a big deal.
Next step is to test drive and get trans up to ~140 to start shift learning process, then get it up to ~160 to get t-stat to open and fill cooler circuit. Then top off fluid, install hood and see what it can do.
Went synthetic in transfer case this time. Now that it is clocked up a bit the fluid capacity at fill hole is less. I don't think it is enough to worry about and over fill through speedo hole, but for those who clock 205s up all the way certainly do.
Trans is supposed to hold 13 qts of Mercon LV in the F150. I put 5 in and started engine to pump out pan into converter and so on. Then repeated with smaller amounts until I had 9 in.
Filling trans through the AN8 line was slow and doesn't allow air out at same time. Case vent can't keep up and flow slows, so let it burp every pint or so. Can't imagine trying to fill and check from underneath blocked by hot exhaust.
Shifted through gears and it actually moved!
Pulled it outside and let it run while adding a quart at a time until I had 13 in but still didn't read on stick. Drove it a short distance enough to get to shift. Hood is still sitting on bed rails so no evasive maneuvers. Was late so called it a victory.
Nothing leaking out which is a miracle for me. Seems the oil pan leak is resolved, which is a big deal.
Next step is to test drive and get trans up to ~140 to start shift learning process, then get it up to ~160 to get t-stat to open and fill cooler circuit. Then top off fluid, install hood and see what it can do.
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Thanks. The difficult part is figuring out what exactly to do and coughing up the dough to get started.
Compared to building the chassis and everything else, the trans swap was manageable. I spent more time fixing existing little things than the swap itself.
I did expect something to go catastrophically wrong. Horrible noises, fluid puking everywhere, flames. But so far it seems to be going ok.
Compared to building the chassis and everything else, the trans swap was manageable. I spent more time fixing existing little things than the swap itself.
I did expect something to go catastrophically wrong. Horrible noises, fluid puking everywhere, flames. But so far it seems to be going ok.
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Took truck out for first test drive with new trans on Friday. Very different experience than the 3 spd. 3-up gears shift at lower rpm and manutronic button didn't work. Got trans to 178* and cooler circuit should have opened. Hoses or cooler didn't feel hot so not sure if full of air still. Will cause fluid level to drop when it does. Could not read fluid level on remote dipstick. Used a razor to score a cross hatch pattern on the end, now I can read.
Installed shift software on PC, connected to controller and configured some items. Farted around with Shift RPM vs TPS tables. Can program how trans behaves with shift selector positions, shift RPM, firmness, and so on. WOT shift points are set at 5500 RPM, 40% TPS at 3000 RPM. Slick.
Test drove again, manual buttons work as expected in 'M' position. Tried progressively higher throttle application through the gears as learning was taking place. From a stop, moderate throttle will lift front end up and spin the tires. Feels like it hits a limit, probably the limit strap on left side. Didn't go WOT through the gears yet.
Still amazed it is not leaking anything. Don't know what to do will all the cardboard I had saved up. Might even clean up the stains on the shop floor.
Installed shift software on PC, connected to controller and configured some items. Farted around with Shift RPM vs TPS tables. Can program how trans behaves with shift selector positions, shift RPM, firmness, and so on. WOT shift points are set at 5500 RPM, 40% TPS at 3000 RPM. Slick.
Test drove again, manual buttons work as expected in 'M' position. Tried progressively higher throttle application through the gears as learning was taking place. From a stop, moderate throttle will lift front end up and spin the tires. Feels like it hits a limit, probably the limit strap on left side. Didn't go WOT through the gears yet.
Still amazed it is not leaking anything. Don't know what to do will all the cardboard I had saved up. Might even clean up the stains on the shop floor.
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rattle_snake
Fuckwits
With truck back on the road switched over to upgraded leaf spring project. I had found some purchasable cut-yourself designs for hangers and shackles from
www.diyoffroad.com
These are designed for a 2.5" width spring, which is what I changed to already (aka chevy 63"). So could use as-is. Made NC file for each piece and started to cut, even though I haven't really figure out best parameters for setup yet...
A few parts had wrong torch speed. My Miller 375 likes 20-25 i/m on 0.187 mild. Holes come out a bit small due to cut bevel. Square tab holes are ok on top but round on bottom, and some pieces needed to be flipped. Fitment is poor compared to waterjet. So some lessons learned, and some future things to mitigate.
It took a fair amount of time to process, cut and clean up all the pieces. Send-cut-send would be less work, but have to wait to ship, and no way to remake if wrong.
Then final fitment and weld-er up. At first I welded the internal seams before back plate. Then I realized that this design is meant to be welded only from the outside, and all of the outside to make it sealed. Torque box by design.
Back side has a sleeved recess for bolt and adds strength.
Then onto the shackle. Did all the NC files at desk with big monitor and mouse instead of little laptop. Then let machine cut while I prepped the pervious pieces, weld and done.
Paint and test fit
Changing from a compression to a tension style shackle setup.
DIY Offroad – Download. Cut. Shred.
Your source for Off Road fabrication CAD files. These files are ready to download and cut. It includes everything you need to build the part you wish to build. DXF are plasma and Laser ready.
www.diyoffroad.com
These are designed for a 2.5" width spring, which is what I changed to already (aka chevy 63"). So could use as-is. Made NC file for each piece and started to cut, even though I haven't really figure out best parameters for setup yet...
A few parts had wrong torch speed. My Miller 375 likes 20-25 i/m on 0.187 mild. Holes come out a bit small due to cut bevel. Square tab holes are ok on top but round on bottom, and some pieces needed to be flipped. Fitment is poor compared to waterjet. So some lessons learned, and some future things to mitigate.
It took a fair amount of time to process, cut and clean up all the pieces. Send-cut-send would be less work, but have to wait to ship, and no way to remake if wrong.
Then final fitment and weld-er up. At first I welded the internal seams before back plate. Then I realized that this design is meant to be welded only from the outside, and all of the outside to make it sealed. Torque box by design.
Back side has a sleeved recess for bolt and adds strength.
Then onto the shackle. Did all the NC files at desk with big monitor and mouse instead of little laptop. Then let machine cut while I prepped the pervious pieces, weld and done.
Paint and test fit
Changing from a compression to a tension style shackle setup.
Snowracer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2020
- Member Number
- 2176
- Messages
- 565
so how are you manually shifting the trans with the controller ? i know very little about the stand alone controller but looks like a great product and might have to look into is more as even a 4r100 would be nice swap from the c6
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
I haven't come up with a decent solution yet so I bought some cheap switches and mounted in a chunk of aluminum. Weatherpack connector for easy disconnect.
Just hanging out of dash.
Considering something on column shifter or transfer case knob.
Just hanging out of dash.
Considering something on column shifter or transfer case knob.
ZSK
Well-known member
I wonder if you could rework the cruise control buttons of a factory style wheel to be your shift buttons.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2021
- Member Number
- 4387
- Messages
- 3,600
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
I had considered that, my wheel is just a horn so clock spring is only a single circuit. Maybe a dent multi clockspring setup can be retrofitted into the bump column.
Edit:
Analyzed 79 schematic of cruise buttons. The steering wheel and clock spring wiper have only 2 contacts, one for horn and one for the 4 cruise buttons, and GND through center.
So how to get 4 functions out of one wire? Resistor and level decoding:
1) 12v (big voltage)
2) big resistor (medium voltage)
3) little resistor (low voltage)
4) GND (no voltage)
The cruise module decodes the voltage or current and decides what button was pressed.
I could program a microcontroller to do same, emulate a switch presses. Get 3 buttons out of the one contact. Embed two more switches in the horn pad at the ends.
Edit:
Analyzed 79 schematic of cruise buttons. The steering wheel and clock spring wiper have only 2 contacts, one for horn and one for the 4 cruise buttons, and GND through center.
So how to get 4 functions out of one wire? Resistor and level decoding:
1) 12v (big voltage)
2) big resistor (medium voltage)
3) little resistor (low voltage)
4) GND (no voltage)
The cruise module decodes the voltage or current and decides what button was pressed.
I could program a microcontroller to do same, emulate a switch presses. Get 3 buttons out of the one contact. Embed two more switches in the horn pad at the ends.
Last edited:
The Freeak
Pro-Crastinator
Are these shackles long enough to accommodate the spring growth under compression?With truck back on the road switched over to upgraded leaf spring project. I had found some purchasable cut-yourself designs for hangers and shackles
Then onto the shackle. Did all the NC files at desk with big monitor and mouse instead of little laptop. Then let machine cut while I prepped the pervious pieces, weld and done.
Paint and test fit
Changing from a compression to a tension style shackle setup.
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
According to the spring manufacturer (Alcan) a 4.5" shackle should be enough.
reptillikus
ate lug
That is basically how the cruise works in the 87-91 and the 92-97 columns. Resistors built into the cruise buttons. In the 92+ columns, the contacts are removable so if you need another contact maybe you could adapt them?I had considered that, my wheel is just a horn so clock spring is only a single circuit. Maybe a dent multi clockspring setup can be retrofitted into the bump column.
Edit:
Analyzed 79 schematic of cruise buttons. The steering wheel and clock spring wiper have only 2 contacts, one for horn and one for the 4 cruise buttons, and GND through center.
So how to get 4 functions out of one wire? Resistor and level decoding:
1) 12v (big voltage)
2) big resistor (medium voltage)
3) little resistor (low voltage)
4) GND (no voltage)
The cruise module decodes the voltage or current and decides what button was pressed.
I could program a microcontroller to do same, emulate a switch presses. Get 3 buttons out of the one contact. Embed two more switches in the horn pad at the ends.
Last edited:
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
The steering wheel has provisions for only one contact, and I like the original wheel for now.
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
On to the rear spring swap!
Starting point, rev 2.3. Old worn out 2500 4 leaf packs, tuned 12" Fox 2.0, large bump stop.
The problem: worn out flat springs, compression shackle. rear bottoms out on bump stops too easily.
The fix: +7 arch spring, 10 leaf, Mil wrap. new rear hanger and shackles for tension setup. Quite a different in free arch
Cut off the old hangers. No fun working right next to fuel tank with sparks and arcs.
Cut perches off axle tubes as they needed to be at a different angle. The traction bar maintained the pinion angle of 11*.
But how to mount the new shackle hanger? Rear of 72 2WD frame tapers down to 4" of height, and hangers are taller, maybe for '73+ F100. Started to fiddle with some type of extension/support. Was digging through my stash of flat stock and realized I have a plasma table so no constraints, hand cuts or holes to drill.
Created a 360 sketch and NC file in under 5 min, with provisions for 4 mounting locations 1" apart. This way I don't have to cut/weld to move shackle position next time. Extends frame down another 2.5, but will have to completely rework bumper mount, which has it's own problems.
Welded the extensions onto the radius of the frame. Plenty of adhesion although not pretty.
On to the other side.
Added some gussets on back side.
Mock-up and test fit. New springs have considerable more droop and now use all the down travel the 12" shock has. Probably got 2-3" more down travel. The pack separates some and shackle is resting on mount, may limit with a strap. See how things work first.
Set truck on the ground to see what ride height would be. Not enough but very close to estimation. I planned on needing a 1" block so I could adjust down if needed.
Went through my stash of blocks and found a 2". Popped it in, a bit high but springs will settle, so plan to test drive and tune from there. Bump stops will have to be revisited.
Starting point, rev 2.3. Old worn out 2500 4 leaf packs, tuned 12" Fox 2.0, large bump stop.
The problem: worn out flat springs, compression shackle. rear bottoms out on bump stops too easily.
The fix: +7 arch spring, 10 leaf, Mil wrap. new rear hanger and shackles for tension setup. Quite a different in free arch
Cut off the old hangers. No fun working right next to fuel tank with sparks and arcs.
Cut perches off axle tubes as they needed to be at a different angle. The traction bar maintained the pinion angle of 11*.
But how to mount the new shackle hanger? Rear of 72 2WD frame tapers down to 4" of height, and hangers are taller, maybe for '73+ F100. Started to fiddle with some type of extension/support. Was digging through my stash of flat stock and realized I have a plasma table so no constraints, hand cuts or holes to drill.
Created a 360 sketch and NC file in under 5 min, with provisions for 4 mounting locations 1" apart. This way I don't have to cut/weld to move shackle position next time. Extends frame down another 2.5, but will have to completely rework bumper mount, which has it's own problems.
Welded the extensions onto the radius of the frame. Plenty of adhesion although not pretty.
On to the other side.
Added some gussets on back side.
Mock-up and test fit. New springs have considerable more droop and now use all the down travel the 12" shock has. Probably got 2-3" more down travel. The pack separates some and shackle is resting on mount, may limit with a strap. See how things work first.
Set truck on the ground to see what ride height would be. Not enough but very close to estimation. I planned on needing a 1" block so I could adjust down if needed.
Went through my stash of blocks and found a 2". Popped it in, a bit high but springs will settle, so plan to test drive and tune from there. Bump stops will have to be revisited.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,555
Welded the extensions onto the radius of the frame. Plenty of adhesion although not pretty.
On to the other side.
You really should've laid another two passes on that before grinding it down flush.
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
That weld is under compression and already has a shit load of weld wire in the groove. More weld won't help except for looks. I only ground to make the plate sit flat. Now it is mostly covered by the hanger and bumper.
It did bother me for a bit until I considered all the other shit I need to do then it was good enough. Maybe I learned my lesson after filling so many stupid holes in the frame, just because.
I also didn't fully weld the back side, as it is unnecessary and only makes potential removal more difficult. adds weight, time, cost.
It did bother me for a bit until I considered all the other shit I need to do then it was good enough. Maybe I learned my lesson after filling so many stupid holes in the frame, just because.
I also didn't fully weld the back side, as it is unnecessary and only makes potential removal more difficult. adds weight, time, cost.
Last edited:
rattle_snake
Fuckwits
Continued to prep for test drive on new springs. Torqued the u bolts, it holds the pack together tighter and reduced the shackle angle. Pack still separates a bit but not too bad.
Access to hanger bolt constrained the frame extension, but ended up in same size as bumper bracket.
Started on bumper modifications so I can test drive. Shortened mounts to fit with shackle hangers, and removed the horizontal attachment points all together. Having bolts in 2 planes is not ideal for install/remove. Hard to line up, and have to be tightened in a certain order to get subsequent holes to line up. Now there will be 4 bolts per side in one plane, using one existing hole. I drilled most of the holes in the frame and then test fit bumper to center punch the hole locations to bumper. Like most things I have some more improvement for the bumper, but I just slapped it on with half the bolts to get it on the road.
Access to hanger bolt constrained the frame extension, but ended up in same size as bumper bracket.
Started on bumper modifications so I can test drive. Shortened mounts to fit with shackle hangers, and removed the horizontal attachment points all together. Having bolts in 2 planes is not ideal for install/remove. Hard to line up, and have to be tightened in a certain order to get subsequent holes to line up. Now there will be 4 bolts per side in one plane, using one existing hole. I drilled most of the holes in the frame and then test fit bumper to center punch the hole locations to bumper. Like most things I have some more improvement for the bumper, but I just slapped it on with half the bolts to get it on the road.
Projectjunkie
Whatever
What were the specs on your previous rear springs?