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'05+ Ford Super Duty Dana 60 Axle Tech & Info

Where'd you source the drill bushings? McMaster or somewhere else?
eBay I believe. The jig isnt thick enough to keep the bushing retained. So I dimple the steel remove the busing while keeping everything clamped down. Just used a piece of all thread through the drill press table.
 
The factory tubes are 3.7400 +/- .002. That's what the Cs are machine for. Gonna have to buff the tube to get that thing to fit if you didn’t prep the retube.

I heat to 400⁰-500⁰ with a .002 press fit no issues so far.
Is that why you turned down the tubes on the 14B coming here?
 

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Is that why you turned down the tubes on the 14B coming here?
Yes sir. Makes the job go a whole lot easier when the tubes are turned for the Cs. Those ultimate Cs i sent will heat up just as easy as they have less mass then the factory Cs.
I believe dana centerless grinds the 05+ tubes to fit the center and Cs. As they share the same press size. Which in turn makes them look not turned on the ends for Cs.
 
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The factory tubes are 3.7400 +/- .002. That's what the Cs are machine for. Gonna have to buff the tube to get that thing to fit if you didn’t prep the retube.

I heat to 400⁰-500⁰ with a .002 press fit no issues so far.
the first time around, I didnt even take the mill scale off. So i did that for the second try. The new tube must be a few thou larger.
 
Yes sir. Makes the job go a whole lot easier when the tubes are turned for the Cs. Those ultimate Cs i sent will heat up just as easy as they have less mass then the factory Cs.
I believe dana centerless grinds the 05+ tubes to fit the center and Cs. As they share the same press size. Which in turn makes them look not turned on the ends for Cs.
The center section on my 06 has roughly half of the length that's pressed in turned down about 50 thou, the other half was tube size, minus the interference fit. The C end of the tube was tube size, no machining as far as I can tell. When i cut the long side down, the C shrunk right on with no issues. When i machined the new tube for the long side, i heater the center section to around 500 and the tube dropped in. It did set fast, making me think maybe the factory tube does have a few thou skimmed off the entire length. I was so concerned with measuring the inner bore of the center, i failed to measure anything else, i also didnt have much time.
 
Late to the party and maybe it’s discussed over 40 pages but is the 05 axle the same as the 2024 axle minus brakes changes? Did they go to factory 1550 u joints at some point for F250/350 or is it still just 450/550 that gets 1550?

Either way, that’s minor.

Like axle tubes, ball joints, unit bearings, etc. all the same for almost 20 years?
 
Late to the party and maybe it’s discussed over 40 pages but is the 05 axle the same as the 2024 axle minus brakes changes? Did they go to factory 1550 u joints at some point for F250/350 or is it still just 450/550 that gets 1550?

Either way, that’s minor.

Like axle tubes, ball joints, unit bearings, etc. all the same for almost 20 years?
2024 or 25 is being reported as different, I believe. Up to at least 23 is the same minus knuckle and brake changes

1550 in 250/350 started around 2011 from factory.

Tubes, ball joints, unit bearing are all the same from what I recall in this thread


You looking at changing it up on the h3?
 
2024 or 25 is being reported as different, I believe. Up to at least 23 is the same minus knuckle and brake changes

1550 in 250/350 started around 2011 from factory.

Tubes, ball joints, unit bearing are all the same from what I recall in this thread


You looking at changing it up on the h3?

Lots of bad info there.

The biggest change is the '17+ axles that have a different gear set and are sometimes called "short" pinion Dana 60s since the pinion shaft is shorter but much thicker. Also 28 spline vs. the 29 spline that is the same as legacy Dana 60s used from 2005-2016. As far as I can tell, 4.88 is the lowest you can go in a 2017+ axle much like the '11+ 37 spline pinion Sterlings..

1550 joints started in either 2015 with the first major upgrade to the 6.7L or in 2017 with the Alumiduty but I am not positive. It is somewhat immaterial though since the factory 1550 shafts cost less than $400 with joints brand new and are backwards compatible all the way to 2005.

Brakes got bigger in 2013 and have been roughly the same size since (~13.7" to ~14.3"). Not all 17" wheels will fit on the 2013+ axles.

Knuckles have changed slightly over the years, 2005-2007 are the beefiest, but none of them are particularly weak like old factory kingpin knuckles.

In 2023, Ford started putting M235 (9.25") centers in most of the trucks, although some configurations still get the 10" (256mm) Super 60 center. The outers are identical, so it is somewhat analogous to the D50 vs. D60 in the '99-'04 trucks; however, the M235 center should be stronger than the old Dana 50 center.
 
2024 or 25 is being reported as different, I believe. Up to at least 23 is the same minus knuckle and brake changes

1550 in 250/350 started around 2011 from factory.

Tubes, ball joints, unit bearing are all the same from what I recall in this thread


You looking at changing it up on the h3?
Nope, H3 axle is staying the same. If I ever changed it up I’d imagine I’d do fab axles.
Lots of bad info there.

The biggest change is the '17+ axles that have a different gear set and are sometimes called "short" pinion Dana 60s since the pinion shaft is shorter but much thicker. Also 28 spline vs. the 29 spline that is the same as legacy Dana 60s used from 2005-2016. As far as I can tell, 4.88 is the lowest you can go in a 2017+ axle much like the '11+ 37 spline pinion Sterlings..

1550 joints started in either 2015 with the first major upgrade to the 6.7L or in 2017 with the Alumiduty but I am not positive. It is somewhat immaterial though since the factory 1550 shafts cost less than $400 with joints brand new and are backwards compatible all the way to 2005.

Brakes got bigger in 2013 and have been roughly the same size since (~13.7" to ~14.3"). Not all 17" wheels will fit on the 2013+ axles.

Knuckles have changed slightly over the years, 2005-2007 are the beefiest, but none of them are particularly weak like old factory kingpin knuckles.

In 2023, Ford started putting M235 (9.25") centers in most of the trucks, although some configurations still get the 10" (256mm) Super 60 center. The outers are identical, so it is somewhat analogous to the D50 vs. D60 in the '99-'04 trucks; however, the M235 center should be stronger than the old Dana 50 center.
Thanks, I have seen different axle ratings over the years. In the 250/350 I figured it’s spring related. F550 I have seen as little as 6k and as much as 7500. I wasn’t sure if tube wall thickness or knuckles and crap changed. I’m not sold on the M235 metric crap yet.
 
Are the Warn hubs really worth twice the price of Mile Markers (or the factory Ford hubs)?

I realize most folks are going to run drive slugs with SD60s, but this particular project is street driven, so hubs are nice.
 
Are the Warn hubs really worth twice the price of Mile Markers (or the factory Ford hubs)?

I realize most folks are going to run drive slugs with SD60s, but this particular project is street driven, so hubs are nice.
The factory ones are junk. I break them with 285/70/17’s (wrapped in tire chains) on a stock work truck. I’ve broken so many I can’t even count so it’s not just one.
 
I must drive like a pussy. Stock 05+ hubs in my JK on 40" stickies. I feel like I've wedged that front tire in places that would have easily snapped a chromo D44 shaft (that's all I know), and it just climbed out. This is JV/Sand Hollow with a 3.8L minivan motor.
 
The factory ones are junk. I break them with 285/70/17’s (wrapped in tire chains) on a stock work truck. I’ve broken so many I can’t even count so it’s not just one.
Good to know...I was thinking I'd get away with the Ford ones.
 
Are the Warn hubs really worth twice the price of Mile Markers (or the factory Ford hubs)?

I realize most folks are going to run drive slugs with SD60s, but this particular project is street driven, so hubs are nice.
I’m running Warn Premiums and RCV hub gears in my 05+ because I put around 1,000 street miles a year on my crawler and I got tired of pulling my drive slugs and gave this a shot. I’m also using Branik legacy shafts and joints which I was recommended not spin at the higher speeds on the road, those Warn hubs have taken a beating with a sporty 6.0 and 42” sticky tires!
 
I must drive like a pussy. Stock 05+ hubs in my JK on 40" stickies. I feel like I've wedged that front tire in places that would have easily snapped a chromo D44 shaft (that's all I know), and it just climbed out. This is JV/Sand Hollow with a 3.8L minivan motor.
Mine'll be on a heavy 5.9L diesel....so I'm expecting to break them.
 
I’m running Warn Premiums and RCV hub gears in my 05+ because I put around 1,000 street miles a year on my crawler and I got tired of pulling my drive slugs and gave this a shot. I’m also using Branik legacy shafts and joints which I was recommended not spin at the higher speeds on the road, those Warn hubs have taken a beating with a sporty 6.0 and 42” sticky tires!
So RCV makes upgraded internals for the Warns? This is what I see on RCV's site:


...but it says it's for OEM hubs. Are the Warns the same design I gues??
 
Are the Warn hubs really worth twice the price of Mile Markers (or the factory Ford hubs)?

I realize most folks are going to run drive slugs with SD60s, but this particular project is street driven, so hubs are nice.
Never seen any Milemarker hubs worth a damn , so I would say yes for sure. I know on my buddies 99-04 axle he has broken 4 already in 4 trips this year. I run same axle, and same build basically but with yukon hubs with no issues. Yukon > Warn >Milemarker = Ford IMO, but the yukon hub part wont apply to 05 up obviosuly.
 
The factory ones are junk. I break them with 285/70/17’s (wrapped in tire chains) on a stock work truck. I’ve broken so many I can’t even count so it’s not just one.
You got pics of any breakage? I’ve had to replace a couple of mine because they got stuck (in or out) , but not really broke anything until I tour it apart.
 
Never seen any Milemarker hubs worth a damn , so I would say yes for sure. I know on my buddies 99-04 axle he has broken 4 already in 4 trips this year. I run same axle, and same build basically but with yukon hubs with no issues. Yukon > Warn >Milemarker = Ford IMO, but the yukon hub part wont apply to 05 up obviosuly.
Yeah, wish Yukon was making their "hardcore" hub for the 05+.
 
You got pics of any breakage? I’ve had to replace a couple of mine because they got stuck (in or out) , but not really broke anything until I tour it apart.
I don’t have pics at the moment but next time I’ll snap some. There is a plastic cage that guides the double splined metal part. When I break them, that whole inner plastic thing is crunched into bits and very hard to get apart. When that stupid plastic cage breaks it stops being able to be engaged. This pic, it’s the whole black think with the 8 guides.

IMG_6503.jpeg
 
I know the peck brothers on YouTube are breaking factory stub shafts pretty regularly with warn hubs and they’re surviving.

Someone on here stated Ecgs was coming out with 05-23 locking hubs. I haven’t seen anything on the website. They would be a hot seller.
 
I don’t have pics at the moment but next time I’ll snap some. There is a plastic cage that guides the double splined metal part. When I break them, that whole inner plastic thing is crunched into bits and very hard to get apart. When that stupid plastic cage breaks it stops being able to be engaged. This pic, it’s the whole black think with the 8 guides.

IMG_6503.jpeg
So it kind of sounds like what is happening to me. The hub won’t lock or unlock and when you take it apart, it breaks. Have you had it be locked and something broke and it won’t drive? That hasn’t happened to me. But you are a more serious wheeler than I. (I believe)

I will probably go Warn. If I carried a pair of slugs, I bet the Ford units would never fail.
 
So RCV makes upgraded internals for the Warns? This is what I see on RCV's site:


...but it says it's for OEM hubs. Are the Warns the same design I gues??
I found no way to use the RCV hub gears with oem hubs…you cut that plastic cage and the whole thing falls apart. I had to slightly modify the hub gear snap ring grove to work with Warn stuff but it was only widening it by like .010.

RCV has absolute shit for customer service or tech help..maybe if you spend $7K or are a U4 or bouncer big wheel you get treated decent but I sure didn’t. The guy who I spoke with at RCV had no clue how or if these worked with oem hubs and I reminded him of his product description on the website and he pretty much said …tough shit.

All the bitching aside RCV makes stout stuff and I tolerate their pisspoor tech.
 
So it kind of sounds like what is happening to me. The hub won’t lock or unlock and when you take it apart, it breaks. Have you had it be locked and something broke and it won’t drive? That hasn’t happened to me. But you are a more serious wheeler than I. (I believe)

I will probably go Warn. If I carried a pair of slugs, I bet the Ford units would never fail.
My hubs on that work truck live locked in. I need 4wd every single day I go to work so there’s no point in unlocking them. I know immediately when one is broken because the front end stops working. It rained today, I needed the front axle to pull this very day.

When the hub stops making a connection it is a mess of packed powder. The the 3 bolt face comes off on disassembly and leaves the springs and guts inside. There will be a mess of grease packed powder you have to dig out to get the back half of the cage and the guts out of there so you can replace the whole unit. I usually have hubs stashed in the field. I’ve changed one on the side of the road.

I broached the side gears in my 2019 so the axle shaft would spin inside the side gear. No broken hubs this day but most the time the hub fails first. I’ve also broken the Warn ones just FYI.





IMG_3423.jpeg
IMG_0536.jpeg
 
I found no way to use the RCV hub gears with oem hubs…you cut that plastic cage and the whole thing falls apart. I had to slightly modify the hub gear snap ring grove to work with Warn stuff but it was only widening it by like .010.

RCV has absolute shit for customer service or tech help..maybe if you spend $7K or are a U4 or bouncer big wheel you get treated decent but I sure didn’t. The guy who I spoke with at RCV had no clue how or if these worked with oem hubs and I reminded him of his product description on the website and he pretty much said …tough shit.

All the bitching aside RCV makes stout stuff and I tolerate their pisspoor tech.
They work with the Ford oem units it’s a little bit of a bitch but I’m running them.

Here is the video I watched to figure out how to get them apart
 
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I know the peck brothers on YouTube are breaking factory stub shafts pretty regularly with warn hubs and they’re surviving.

Someone on here stated Ecgs was coming out with 05-23 locking hubs. I haven’t seen anything on the website. They would be a hot seller.
Hmmm...just talked to Paul at ECGS today. He didn't mention anything about it. Guess I should quiz him tomorrow.
 
I found no way to use the RCV hub gears with oem hubs…you cut that plastic cage and the whole thing falls apart. I had to slightly modify the hub gear snap ring grove to work with Warn stuff but it was only widening it by like .010.

RCV has absolute shit for customer service or tech help..maybe if you spend $7K or are a U4 or bouncer big wheel you get treated decent but I sure didn’t. The guy who I spoke with at RCV had no clue how or if these worked with oem hubs and I reminded him of his product description on the website and he pretty much said …tough shit.

All the bitching aside RCV makes stout stuff and I tolerate their pisspoor tech.
Wow...this is ballooning into quite the expensive hub if you gotta buy $388 Warns coupled with $340 RCVs to go in them.

How many minutes a side do you guys think it would take with a 1/4" electric impact to pull the factory hubs and slap a set of ~$300 BKOR or TMR 35 spline drive slugs in? Might just make more sense for anything more than snowy/icy pavement.
 
What is all that mud doing in the desert?
Not your typical desert but a desert none the less. I think we have enough annual rain fall to have a green place to live. But the soil composition is such barren trash nothing but weeds and sagebrush can flourish in it. There is no fixing our soil into a nice farmland without literally just dumping real rich topsoil on top of our natural dirt. I go up and down thousands of feet in elevation change every day and it looks the same on top of the mountain or down in the valley except where people have paid mega bucks to bring in good black dirt.
 
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