Who's who for axle shafts?

[Wfoyota]

I'm pretty sure the yoke fails causing the break on the inner. I'm not sold on the inner shaft portion failing. I'll have to find time to talk to them. I've seen you beat down on your rig which is heavier and at least double the power before. I'm kinda like "well if they sre holding for him" lol

Sure does look like the yoke failed but hard to know I guess. Almost all d60 inners ive seen fail were close to the diff. Rarely ever has it been at the yoke unless rcv related or joint broke. Was that a pretty old shaft? Reason I ask is due to the round yoke

 

[94toytruck]

Sure does look like the yoke failed but hard to know I guess. Almost all d60 inners ive seen fail were close to the diff. Rarely ever has it been at the yoke unless rcv related or joint broke. Was that a pretty old shaft? Reason I ask is due to the round yoke

It was, it was my spare I put in when I found caps loose in a Alloy USA set I had in.
It had been run before for a short time before it was machined. However I broke one that was only a year old too.

Just occurred to me I put that Alloy USA shaft in with a old Spicer joint and went right back to where I broke and then wheeled all day lol

 

[Weasel]

Roughly strength numbers
normal alloys are in the 120ksi range
Better 4340 HT is in the 180ksi range
Best 4340HT is in the 220ksi range
300M is in the 260ksi range.

If $200 extra isnt an issue for you then yeah I'd do it.

 

[94toytruck]

Roughly strength numbers
normal alloys are in the 120ksi range
Better 4340 HT is in the 180ksi range
Best 4340HT is in the 220ksi range
300M is in the 260ksi range.

If $200 extra isnt an issue for you then yeah I'd do it.

$200 no problem on inners, outers are 1k a pop.

 

[TrailTamer]

I'm pretty sure the yoke fails causing the break on the inner.

I agree. Can you live without 50* steering? Or just go RCV?

I seriously think the machining for 50* steering killed your shafts. The ‘web’ between ears is thin and rather large. Flexing back forth, fatigued, cracking for a while before it snaps. And rough surfaces from corrosions, machining finish and casting/forging certainly don’t help in high stressed areas.

It may live longer if a portion of the ‘web’ removed.

 

[94toytruck]

I agree. Can you live without 50* steering? Or just go RCV?

No and no. RCVs cost as much in 300m as Legacy shafts. I'd have to redo my steering to run them. I've seen more broken RCVs than Legacy shafts. The clicking is insufferable. The only plus IMHO is the stub shaft is replaceable where a Legacy outer is 1 giant peice and the warranty. I always see that scene from Tommy boy when I think of a warranty.

 

[94toytruck]

I think the yoke design Branik and Spidertrax use is where the strength lies at least with lots of turning involved. There's no material in the center but lots around the ear and the base where the shaft sits.

 

[cdemart2]

if you're breaking mostly inners and it's only $200 more for 300m I think that's a good choice given the data here. stubs I don't think it's worth the cost to go 300m if staying 35 spline.

I agree the bell style yoke is much stronger it sucks the KP spindle design doesn't allow for them.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

if you're breaking mostly inners and it's only $200 more for 300m I think that's a good choice given the data here. stubs I don't think it's worth the cost to go 300m if staying 35 spline.

I agree the bell style yoke is much stronger it sucks the KP spindle design doesn't allow for them.

Doesn't make sense to me to have the inners way stronger than the outters. Even given the same material, the inners should have more twist and be stronger. Make the inners even stronger and I'd thing it just stresses the outters more and may even be a weaker over all setup.

For the amount of money mentioned, I'd think about rcv's or just build an 05+ front axle and sell the current one for stupid kp prices.

 

[94toytruck]

I didn't know this was the 05+ swap thread lol.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I didn't know this was the 05+ swap thread lol.

Well when you're talking about ~$4k? In axle shafts, I think all options should be discussed

 

[94toytruck]

Well when you're talking about ~$4k? In axle shafts, I think all options should be discussed

Well, I think your a parrot, but anyways.


4500 for 4340 shafts from Branik and 1550 joints for a 05+, plus gears/locker, steering, balljoint eliminators, new ram, tie rods, brakes, truss, bump pads, link mounts ect.... Certainly seems like a budget minded option. Oh and I have a PS LP that stuffs up high enough my pinion is next to my engine block. HP would be next to my head probably or at least close.

Even just swapping outers is a assload of money and I still can't do 40 spline inners. Or I can do $2500 for full 4340 or $3800 for full 300m for shafts designed to turn this far and likely never have a issue again and have a entire set of 4340 shafts still with good joints as spares still just incase.

 

[Weasel]

Doesn't make sense to me to have the inners way stronger than the outters. Even given the same material, the inners should have more twist and be stronger. Make the inners even stronger and I'd thing it just stresses the outters more and may even be a weaker over all setup.

For the amount of money mentioned, I'd think about rcv's or just build an 05+ front axle and sell the current one for stupid kp prices.

except strength doesn't equal less twist.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well, I think your a parrot, but anyways.

Cluck cluck

4500 for 4340 shafts from Branik and 1550 joints for a 05+, plus gears/locker, steering, balljoint eliminators, new ram, tie rods, brakes, truss, bump pads, link mounts ect.... Certainly seems like a budget minded option. Oh and I have a PS LP that stuffs up high enough my pinion is next to my engine block. HP would be next to my head probably or at least close.

Youre assuming that youll need high end shafts in 1550. Seems like the issue is that you want 50* from a cheap shaft. So you need to either give up money, give up angle, or give up time and also money

Serious question, is your current axle not worth a fair amount in your area? Because I'm used to a stock kp axle going for $2k and built ones going for $3500+ so of that was the case. You have a $7500 budget to build and install something else.

Even just swapping outers is a assload of money and I still can't do 40 spline inners. Or I can do $2500 for full 4340 or $3800 for full 300m for shafts designed to turn this far and likely never have a issue again and have a entire set of 4340 shafts still with good joints as spares still just incase.

What am I missing that you think 40 splines are needed when your problem is that you're splitting yokes?

except strength doesn't equal less twist.

Fair, but will a 300m inner twist more than a 4340 outter?

 

[Weasel]

Fair, but will a 300m inner twist more than a 4340 outter?

Yeah they could.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Yeah they could.

But will they twist before a 4340 stub breaks?

 

[94toytruck]

Cluck cluck

Parrots just repeat stuff they've heard lol

Youre assuming that youll need high end shafts in 1550. Seems like the issue is that you want 50* from a cheap shaft. So you need to either give up money, give up angle, or give up time and also money

No, I'm trying to figure out if moving to 300m is worth it. I know it's time to move up. If I went to a 1550 with a cheap shaft(yukon blanks everyone uses) it's very possible I'll have issues. The Indonesian polar bear doesn't have the greatest reputation. Do some digging and you'll find people are messing the yoke ends on those up too. I'm pretty sure the Spidertrax/Branik bell ends are leaps and bounds stronger in either flavor.

Serious question, is your current axle not worth a fair amount in your area? Because I'm used to a stock kp axle going for $2k and built ones going for $3500+ so of that was the case. You have a $7500 budget to build and install something else.

KP axle often go cheaper than SD60s here stock. My friend bought a GM 60 for $350 in spring for parts. They are both rusty and need work here. In my case mine is 65 wide has rotated knuckles specific link and bump mounts. It's not a desirable bolt in D60.

What am I missing that you think 40 splines are needed when your problem is that you're splitting yokes?

If you were going through the trouble to do all that work including gears, locker and narrow would you stay with 35spline or make the logical jump to 40 spline? That is the time to do it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Parrots just repeat stuff they've heard lol

Welcome to the internet

No, I'm trying to figure out if moving to 300m is worth it. I know it's time to move up. If I went to a 1550 with a cheap shaft(yukon blanks everyone uses) it's very possible I'll have issues. The Indonesian polar bear doesn't have the greatest reputation. Do some digging and you'll find people are messing the yoke ends on those up too. I'm pretty sure the Spidertrax/Branik bell ends are leaps and bounds stronger in either flavor.

I get that, what I'm saying is that I think your issue is the angles. 1550 should be much stronger at the same angle and I belive doesn't need machining to get there.

KP axle often go cheaper than SD60s here stock. My friend bought a GM 60 for $350 in spring for parts. They are both rusty and need work here. In my case mine is 65 wide has rotated knuckles specific link and bump mounts. It's not a desirable bolt in D60.

Ok, fair enough, then that would kill my idea.

If you were going through the trouble to do all that work including gears, locker and narrow would you stay with 35spline or make the logical jump to 40 spline? That is the time to do it.

Yes, that makes sense.

All I'm saying is that I'd be looking at every and all options before dropping that kind of money on shafts for an old KP axle. Seems like there has to be a solution for a 4cyl rig that's not $4k.

Have you looked into these? They look much higher quality than Yukon, made in USA, and under $1k for a full set.

Dana 60 | Front Inner Axle | 4340 Chromoly | Pair

Price may go up based on application, and whether a single or pair.

dutchmanaxles.com

 

[94toytruck]

All I'm saying is that I'd be looking at every and all options before dropping that kind of money on shafts for an old KP axle. Seems like there has to be a solution for a 4cyl rig that's not $4k.

2500 for Branik legacy 4340s, hence the is 4340 going to be enough?

 

[94toytruck]

what vehicle, weight, use, tire size is it going into ?
How retarded is the driver ?

Seems like you break 35sp chromo shafts already, right?

Reading back through and missed this. It's my buggy , 4200lbs ready to wheel, Toyota 3rz powered, manual, dual cases, 40 treps, I'm in the NE so wheel speed is often needed if it's greasy but try to crawl everything first.

 

[94toytruck]

Have you looked into these? They look much higher quality than Yukon, made in USA, and under $1k for a full set.

Dana 60 | Front Inner Axle | 4340 Chromoly | Pair

Price may go up based on application, and whether a single or pair.

dutchmanaxles.com

I swear, I didn't see this part early. I think I'm the one that told you they make those though.

Now add $400 for machining and shipping from Branik to me and they still have the standard yoke instead of the bell end. Wfoyota got about a year outta them IIRC amd he didn't have them machined. It's still a gamble and like a $1500 one.

This past break is nearly $800 between a joint rebuild and Yukon blanks. How many times would you do that before it got old? These shafts are not designed to turn this far. At least the bell end type are.

I wasted 4 shafts in the past year. Lets toss in 2 u-joint rebuilds cause they trash caps when they break. That's $1600 in a year in shafts not to mention I missed a trip cause of it. If I get 2 seasons outta 4340 outers and 300m inners it's a wash. I'm a cheap prick and waiting till I can talk to Branik but that seems pretty logical to me.

 

[Boomtacoma01]

I can see see your logic with the 300M in and 4340 outers. Seems like a good choice to me.

Currently running some budget chromos for my Chevy KP60 that I picked up from Ron's Machine years ago. No issues besides regular greasing.

When I build another set, I've been kicking round the Branik Legacy 4340 route with 1550 Joints with the Direct spline outers for a a set of 9" front/rear steer axles. It's pricey but hopefully worth it.. If I'm short on cash, I'll do the same with the 1480/35 spline outers. The 1550 Direct spline outers would eliminate the drive slugs which are 250 a set which would offset the cost of the outers as little.

 

[94toytruck]

I can see see your logic with the 300M in and 4340 outers. Seems like a good choice to me.

Currently running some budget chromos for my Chevy KP60 that I picked up from Ron's Machine years ago. No issues besides regular greasing.

When I build another set, I've been kicking round the Branik Legacy 4340 route with 1550 Joints with the Direct spline outers for a a set of 9" front/rear steer axles. It's pricey but hopefully worth it.. If I'm short on cash, I'll do the same with the 1480/35 spline outers. The 1550 Direct spline outers would eliminate the drive slugs which are 250 a set which would offset the cost of the outers as little.

I know my failures are mostly due to my turning. I had fairly good luck with stuff before I did that. I definitely push harder now though.

I priced out that exact setup and put a screen shot of the cost earlier. Direct drives, 1550 and 40 spline inners in 4340 Legacys. It's not cheap but I suspect it'll be real hard to break! Maybe one day bit not this axle and likely not this buggy.

 

[Boomtacoma01]

No judgement here. My current rig is staying as is cause it works for what I use it for. Awesome axles wont fix all the fuckery I currently have going on. I'm trying to monetarily justify building another from the ground up. May be eating Ramen and sandwiches for a bit lol..

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I swear, I didn't see this part early. I think I'm the one that told you they make those though.

Now add $400 for machining and shipping from Branik to me and they still have the standard yoke instead of the bell end. Wfoyota got about a year outta them IIRC amd he didn't have them machined. It's still a gamble and like a $1500 one.

Fair enough, I guess I assumed those would get "enough" angle

This past break is nearly $800 between a joint rebuild and Yukon blanks. How many times would you do that before it got old? These shafts are not designed to turn this far. At least the bell end type are.

I totally get where you're coming from. I guess I just figured some quality USA shafts would be plenty overkill.

I wasted 4 shafts in the past year. Lets toss in 2 u-joint rebuilds cause they trash caps when they break. That's $1600 in a year in shafts not to mention I missed a trip cause of it. If I get 2 seasons outta 4340 outers and 300m inners it's a wash. I'm a cheap prick and waiting till I can talk to Branik but that seems pretty logical to me.

What's typically taking them out? Like full throttle wheels in the air stuff or getting bound up while crawling? Both?

 

[94toytruck]

What's typically taking them out? Like full throttle wheels in the air stuff or getting bound up while crawling? Both?

First one I was parked nose down on a dirt road watching a friend. Hopped in my rig turned right and went to back up and it let loose right there. Not even full lock just turned a bit, no bind backed up a slight grade. I was just starting to get out again after breaking my leg so I wasn't pushing to hard. We figured it just was hurt previously and finally left loose. Spicer joint wasn't broken either but a few expressed thoughts it was the reason for failure. Actually this is the day it let loose.

2nd one was on a slimy hill climb, didn't even hear it break. 2nd gear in 4.7 case up the hill but not full tilt mobbin, it was the first trail of the day. Not sure if it broke straight or turned, just realized it stopped turning. Backed up and heard the pieces hit each other when the fell out. Had CTMs in this time.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

First one I was parked nose down on a dirt road watching a friend. Hopped in my rig turned right and went to back up and it let loose right there. Not even full lock just turned a bit, no bind backed up a slight grade. I was just starting to get out again after breaking my leg so I wasn't pushing to hard. We figured it just was hurt previously and finally left loose. Spicer joint wasn't broken either but a few expressed thoughts it was the reason for failure. Actually this is the day it let loose.

2nd one was on a slimy hill climb, didn't even hear it break. 2nd gear in 4.7 case up the hill but not full tilt mobbin, it was the first trail of the day. Not sure if it broke straight or turned, just realized it stopped turning. Backed up and heard the pieces hit each other when the fell out. Had CTMs in this time.

I wonder if the ears are flexing everytime you turn full lock, which fatigues them until they break?

 

[94toytruck]

Dunno, maybe. I drive with my ft open on anything easy too to take any stress off them.

 

[Bebop]

Get some 300M legacy and stop wasting time and money in broken shit.



My real opinion :
I'd go 40sp inners, you only need a cheap spool and seals to make the switch. Then you can stay 4340 inners and 300M 35sp outers.
IDK why you said you can't fit them.

 

[94toytruck]

Get some 300M legacy and stop wasting time and money in broken shit.



My real opinion :
I'd go 40sp inners, you only need a cheap spool and seals to make the switch. Then you can stay 4340 inners and 300M 35sp outers.
IDK why you said you can't fit them.

I'm trying to get a baseline on what I need. Obviously this isn't working. I did ok for awhile but I'm not continuing down this road.

I was under the assumption that you couldn't do 40 spline inner on a KP housing for some reason. Not sure I want to give up my selectable locker though.