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Who's who for axle shafts?

I’ll bump this since my question is somewhat relative to this thread and would rather not clutter up the Dana 44 thread about axle shafts.

So we are talking about high end shaft builders here. Dutchman, branik, RCV, etc.

Is 10 factory, nitro, USA standard all no go’s?

Is USA standard literally the same shit as Yukon with a crappier warranty?
 
The old Yukon shafts are a good bit thicker than my new ones in the yoke area. The old ones you used to have to flap the edges of the yoke to get through the knuckle where the new version are really thin there. Somewhere I have a picture of a pile of clearanced D60 shafts next to each other, I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: found the picture. Alloy USA Outer and inner, OG Yukons, New Yukon. You can see the Yukons are all a bit thinner than the Alloy USA yokes and the new Yukons are much thinner.
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Since this thread got bumped. Those Alloy USA shafts that're over a decade old got pulled cause the ears started stretching, they are now spares replaced by OG Yukons I had. Everything else in that picture is still going except... Yup the new Yukon on the end. It broke pretty easily before a Spicer life joint. The OG Yukon outer survived with the U-joint cross still in it.

I ordered a replacement from Branik after a local guy machined a Ten factory shaft for me and it barely turned 40* after and I missed a trip. Turn around from Branik was quick, e-mail response to my questions was the shops number with call to order. I placed my order online and it shipped a few days later, less than 2 weeks turn around. Sadly it's just a Yukon shaft but they way it's machined is a lot nicer and has a bunch more material where it needs it VS. the ones above and my old Branik cut shafts.

I own 1 Ten factory shaft it's a passenger inner for a GM60. It's got this cool little flange near the tube instead of a traditional yoke. It's necked way down to like 30 spline shaft diameter out by the yoke and the raised oil seal area is so far off it barely would have caught the seal. It was new in the package so I know it's the correct PN and I looked it up online and it looks the same. However I'm am not impressed and only was planning to run it to save my trip which didn't work anyways.
 
I’m hoping to not have issues with Yukon super joints and USA standard shafts. I’ll report back when I get them installed
 
I never had a problem with yukon shafts in my old 4 banger turbo buggy. they were bought in 2015 or 16 and used until late 2020 with no failures. I opted for Dutchman USA shafts in my LS buggy and they have been awesome. Quality is much higher than yukon and only minimal price difference in the grand scheme of things. I feel confident saying that a modern yukon shaft would of broke on me by now at least once if I had used them over dutchman for the last year. It seems like something has changed in yukons quality over the last 2-3 years as compared to 5-10 years ago because some buddies have broke them doing basically nothing in v8 buggies over the last year.
 
I've had one set of off the shelf Dutchman shafts in a wheeling rig (TJ on 40" sticky treps, full hydro, Ford 78/79 D60 front) and they never gave me a single problem and last I had heard the buyers of that rig never had issues either.

Additionally, I ordered a custom set of shafts for a front axle I built and I'd say it was the 2nd nicest vendor supplied component in my entire restored WW2 truck build; second only to how perfect Alcan made my rear springs.

As for the Dutchman shafts, they were D60 Domestic inners, custom cut lengths and hobbed to 30 spline GM 14 bolt. (Eaton HO72 steering, with 14B detroit and D60 outer stuff). I've not beat on these shafts but the seal polished surfaces were immaculate, the splines fit perfect, and the lengths were dead on perfect.

10/10 would order custom shafts from them again on another build. Everything about them was machined perfectly, and they assembled perfectly with the Spicer lifetime joints I used too. 35 Spline outers with broached Spicer OG lockouts.

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What's crazy is that dutchman is often barely more than the hyped up junk. Sometimes less.

I looked last night as I may be buying shafts soon, $875 for front USA shafts in any length and options for different splines also.

They will also make a pair of full float shafts in about any combo you want for $425. Which is cheaper than those gay cut to length shafts that some say are weaker than stock :laughing:
 
I got my USA shafts for a stupid deal under $500. So it was cheaper then mentioned but not normally….and in hindsight I’d go the Dutchman route.

The one axle shaft material that is intriguing with Dutchman is their “hy-tuf” material. It’s a version of 300m? I’m curious how it does
 
What's crazy is that dutchman is often barely more than the hyped up junk. Sometimes less.

I looked last night as I may be buying shafts soon, $875 for front USA shafts in any length and options for different splines also.

They will also make a pair of full float shafts in about any combo you want for $425. Which is cheaper than those gay cut to length shafts that some say are weaker than stock :laughing:

I've mentioned that a few times here and to friends in person having issues. Still I've watched a few break cut to fit junk and replace it with cut to fit junk:homer: Things don't even last as long as stock shafts:laughing:
 
I've mentioned that a few times here and to friends in person having issues. Still I've watched a few break cut to fit junk and replace it with cut to fit junk:homer: Things don't even last as long as stock shafts:laughing:

Lots of people think yukon is top of the line. My father in law was all shocked and butt hurt when he ordered gears, lockers and a bunch of other stuff for his jeep from yukon and it all said made in China all over it.

Their balls to the wall marketing really works.


One thing that would be sweet is if you could carry 1 shaft that would work for either side and then be able to cut it on the trail, but of course they didn't do that, at least for the 14b.
 
They will sponsor near anyone too it seems. The amount of Instagram famous people on team Yukon is insane.

I had a guy I know comment on me breaking a Yukon shaft on FB. Told me to stop running junk and just get Spidertrax shafts. Like a month later he's all proud Yukon is sponsoring their team for this season. Like I get it but shit dude.
 
Lots of people think yukon is top of the line. My father in law was all shocked and butt hurt when he ordered gears, lockers and a bunch of other stuff for his jeep from yukon and it all said made in China all over it.

Their balls to the wall marketing really works.


One thing that would be sweet is if you could carry 1 shaft that would work for either side and then be able to cut it on the trail, but of course they didn't do that, at least for the 14b.
Wasn’t it their warranty making their parts worth the price, and their parts were above the rest 10-20 years ago?
 
Wasn’t it their warranty making their parts worth the price, and their parts were above the rest 10-20 years ago?

I don't know, I've heard it's hit and miss.

A warranty doesn't do me any good when I'm in the middle of no where in 10 feet of snow anyway :laughing:

Last guy I talked to who tried using their warranty had a brand new grizzly that didn't work out of the box. Would do wierd shit like not spin the pass side. He was a dealer for them and they were still giving him a really hard time replacing it.
 
I’m curious if the additional “yes” warranty is really a no questions asked situation.
 
I bought it for one of my grizzly lockers, and realized I probably won’t be wheeling hard enough to break a locker. I was kind of upset they give you a set amount of time to buy the extra warranty after you buy the product, and I get it. People will screw them hard.
 
I bought it for one of my grizzly lockers, and realized I probably won’t be wheeling hard enough to break a locker. I was kind of upset they give you a set amount of time to buy the extra warranty after you buy the product, and I get it. People will screw them hard.

I warranted a Zip locker. It took long enough I bought a new one, installed it and had a few trips before it came in. It was awhile ago but it was several months till I had it back in my hands.
 
Hytuf is not 300m :laughing:

Hytuf is for applications where extreme toughness (Ductility + strength) is needed. The ductility is not all that helpful in axleshaft applications, and the higher strength of 300m makes is a superior material for axle shaft applications.

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I would argue the opposite. Toughness and ductility is exactly what is needed in axle shafts. The ability to twist and return keeps stuff from breaking. From that chart, hy-tuff looks to be right in the middle of 4340 and 300m for tensile strength. Im not saying hy-tuff is better than 300m but I would definitely run hy-tuff axles if the price was representative of the properties.

The one thing about Dutchman shafts is that they don't relieve the splines to min diameter. Possibly because they used to respline a lot of stock shafts and didn't want to remove all of the heat treated steel on a shaft that isn't through hardened? Can they profile shafts with relieved splines, I'm sure of it. Will they?
 
I would argue the opposite. Toughness and ductility is exactly what is needed in axle shafts. The ability to twist and return keeps stuff from breaking. From that chart, hy-tuff looks to be right in the middle of 4340 and 300m for tensile strength. Im not saying hy-tuff is better than 300m but I would definitely run hy-tuff axles if the price was representative of the properties.

The one thing about Dutchman shafts is that they don't relieve the splines to min diameter. Possibly because they used to respline a lot of stock shafts and didn't want to remove all of the heat treated steel on a shaft that isn't through hardened? Can they profile shafts with relieved splines, I'm sure of it. Will they?

I'm sure it just comes down to cost if you look at companies that are doing that the cost is substantially more. I still think most people are not breaking 35 spline chromoly anyways so I can see how they wouldn't want to make that a standard option with double the price. From what I've seen and heard they'll pretty much do whatever you want so it might be worth a call to see what the cost difference would be.
 
I would argue the opposite. Toughness and ductility is exactly what is needed in axle shafts. The ability to twist and return keeps stuff from breaking. From that chart, hy-tuff looks to be right in the middle of 4340 and 300m for tensile strength. Im not saying hy-tuff is better than 300m but I would definitely run hy-tuff axles if the price was representative of the properties.

That is not how material properties work.

All steels, regardless of heat treat and the specific alloy, have essentially the same modulus of elasticity (stiffness). Therefore, the steel with the higher yield strength (300M for the purpose of this discussion) will actually twist further before yielding and taking a set than the steel with a lower yield strength (Hytuf). This linear elastic regime is where you want your axles to live because if you start yielding them, you will have a low-cycle fatigue failure. Ideally you want to be stressing your axles well below the yield point to avoid high-cycle fatigue failures.

Ductility describes the elongation of the material in the plastic regime of the stress-strain curve. This is how much the material will deform after it has yielded before rupture. This only comes into play after that material has already yielded (permanently deformed).

Toughness is a factor of both the strength of the material and the ductility. Think of toughness as the area under the stress-strain curve, and it represents how much energy it would take to rupture the material. Both 300M and Hytuf have high toughness, but 300M is stronger, and Hytuf is more ductile. Hytuf will yield (think twisted splines) more easily than 300M, but they would break under comparable shock loads. In a steady-state high-torque situation like a rock buggy with a bound up tire, the hytuf shaft could break and the 300M shaft not even yield.

In an axleshaft, it has essentially failed once it starts to yield, so generally the material with the higher yield stress is going to be stronger. Ductile materials have a more favorable failure mode than brittle materials since they don't experience sudden catastrophic failure, and are more tolerant of over-load situations.
 
That is not how material properties work.

All steels, regardless of heat treat and the specific alloy, have essentially the same modulus of elasticity (stiffness). Therefore, the steel with the higher yield strength (300M for the purpose of this discussion) will actually twist further before yielding and taking a set than the steel with a lower yield strength (Hytuf). This linear elastic regime is where you want your axles to live because if you start yielding them, you will have a low-cycle fatigue failure. Ideally you want to be stressing your axles well below the yield point to avoid high-cycle fatigue failures.

Ductility describes the elongation of the material in the plastic regime of the stress-strain curve. This is how much the material will deform after it has yielded before rupture. This only comes into play after that material has already yielded (permanently deformed).

Toughness is a factor of both the strength of the material and the ductility. Think of toughness as the area under the stress-strain curve, and it represents how much energy it would take to rupture the material. Both 300M and Hytuf have high toughness, but 300M is stronger, and Hytuf is more ductile. Hytuf will yield (think twisted splines) more easily than 300M, but they would break under comparable shock loads. In a steady-state high-torque situation like a rock buggy with a bound up tire, the hytuf shaft could break and the 300M shaft not even yield.

In an axleshaft, it has essentially failed once it starts to yield, so generally the material with the higher yield stress is going to be stronger. Ductile materials have a more favorable failure mode than brittle materials since they don't experience sudden catastrophic failure, and are more tolerant of over-load situations.
Some of what you're saying is correct. 29,000,000 psi modulus for all steel, no differentiation. That is more like a constant used in engineering calculations of shapes and designs.

Has a torsion bar/sway bar failed the first time it's been twisted with articulation? Neither has an axle shaft on the first burn out in the rocks.

Is 300m better than hy-tuff for axle shafts...yeah, most likely.

Is hy-tuff a good material for axle shafts...yeah

Is hy-tuff better than 4340 for axle shafts...yeah, most likely

Does it matter? I don't know of any front axle shafts made from hy-tuff, so no it doesn't matter for front axles. I would most definitely use hy-tuff rear floater shafts if the price was right....
 
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I don't really care too much. It seemed like you're saying that hy-tuff is not a good material for axle shafts? I'm saying that it is and falls in the middle between 4340 and 300m.
 
When I needed axles for my new build I only had one phone call to make. I called Branik Motorsports just like anyone else would if you got the phone number off the internet. The owner himself Stan answered the phone and took my order. American made American sourced material. 6 week wait for custom length 300M.
 
When I needed axles for my new build I only had one phone call to make. I called Branik Motorsports just like anyone else would if you got the phone number off the internet. The owner himself Stan answered the phone and took my order. American made American sourced material. 6 week wait for custom length 300M.

What's your opinion on thier standard (non legacy) axle shafts vs dutchman? They're both very close in price for a set of front axle shafts.
 
Does anyone know how close to another machined feature (of larger diameter) these aftermarket guys can generally cut a spline?
 
What's your opinion on thier standard (non legacy) axle shafts vs dutchman? They're both very close in price for a set of front axle shafts.
I’ve never bought Dutchman shafts for some reason. But if you have something you need cut and re-splined Dutchman is awesome. They don’t (or didn’t used to) make a fuss about throwing new splines on an old shaft. Some companies don’t want to mess with it.
 
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