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ThePanzerFuhrer
The Rock Breaker God
Give them 24v and see what happens 
What’s the worse that can happen you turn a pos into a bigger pos l
I’m sure that’s how the factory did it they used a pwm to vary the pumps to achieve the speed you want.
What’s the worse that can happen you turn a pos into a bigger pos l
I’m sure that’s how the factory did it they used a pwm to vary the pumps to achieve the speed you want.
WaterH
Well-known member
Here’s a theory. The selinoid pin moves out. When it’s half way out, it allows hydro fluid to move the servo to change the angle of the swash. But when the selinoid pin is completely out, it “freezes” the servo/swashplate in whatever location it’s at. When you de-energize the selinoid, it moves the servo back to zero angle. If it worked like that and I gave it 24 volts constant, it would just move the swash a very little and freeze there. (Giving me the slow speed) Then, when and if I could make the pin stay halfway out longer before going the full extension, I would get more swash angle and speed.
I think this is way complicated, but I don’t like to doubt the ability of engineers to make things complicated.
ThePanzerFuhrer
The Rock Breaker God
Or how about the further it moves out the more it adjusts the wash plate in a linear relationship. More than likely 12v = 50% and 24v= 100%
Have you given it 24v yet and tried it?
Have you given it 24v yet and tried it?
WaterH
Well-known member
I have only givin it 24 volts. That is how I get it to move now. But it’s too slow.
ThePanzerFuhrer
The Rock Breaker God
Sounds like you need a flow meter to figure out what’s going on .
ThePanzerFuhrer
The Rock Breaker God
I haven’t seen how it’s all plumbed. How many wheel motors are there to turn all the wheels?
That is not how any of that works. 24v is full open and any less voltage equals less open. They do the PMW deal on solenoids like that to keep the coils from burning up with long term use.
Think of a swash plate like a waste gate on a turbo setup and that's basically how it works. The less you allow to bypass, the more flow/speed you get.
Not really
WaterH
Well-known member
Two, one for each side. A big chain ties them all together.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
I'll have to make a reply but 24v at the pump is max angle IF pilot/charge pressure is correct.
The motor is likely at max angle/displacement so slow but strong.
IMO you probably want to shit can all the valving on the motors and use a rabbit/hair valve to shift the motors.
You need to identify which ports on the motor move the swash plate actuator piston.
The motor is likely at max angle/displacement so slow but strong.
IMO you probably want to shit can all the valving on the motors and use a rabbit/hair valve to shift the motors.
You need to identify which ports on the motor move the swash plate actuator piston.
WaterH
Well-known member
Been working on some other stuff. The battery box was rusted to shit and I didn’t like the location.
So I cut it off and made a rack behind the bumper.
You notice they are lower than the top of the bumper. In the future, I plan to make a bed back there. The bed bottom will line up with the top of the bumper. I should be able to make a little trunk with that shelf there.
I found another hose that was leaking. I got a new one made. Replacing that hose was a total bitch. I removed it and put a couple caps on the fittings. When I got the new hose back, I thought I would just quickly pull the caps and put it on. But one end was tough to line up. Hydro fluid was pouring out. My hands were soaked in fluid, so everything was slippery. I havnt swore like that in years. After I finally got it on, I backed it out to clean the floor.
The next problem is all the hoses that hang down. That what shut this down in the first place. They ripped several hoses open.
The big angle on the floor will be welded up to support a skid plate under the front.
I also made a square to fill in the sky light in the roof. (Haven’t welded it in yet)
So I cut it off and made a rack behind the bumper.
You notice they are lower than the top of the bumper. In the future, I plan to make a bed back there. The bed bottom will line up with the top of the bumper. I should be able to make a little trunk with that shelf there.
I found another hose that was leaking. I got a new one made. Replacing that hose was a total bitch. I removed it and put a couple caps on the fittings. When I got the new hose back, I thought I would just quickly pull the caps and put it on. But one end was tough to line up. Hydro fluid was pouring out. My hands were soaked in fluid, so everything was slippery. I havnt swore like that in years. After I finally got it on, I backed it out to clean the floor.
The next problem is all the hoses that hang down. That what shut this down in the first place. They ripped several hoses open.
The big angle on the floor will be welded up to support a skid plate under the front.
I also made a square to fill in the sky light in the roof. (Haven’t welded it in yet)
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
Assuming this is some sort of auto "gear range" control that uses drive loop pressure to shift the swash plate but that's a reckless guess.Ok, here goes. I’m going to explain everything real basic. Not because you don’t understand, but because I want you to know that I understand. (Or maybe I don’t)
The motor has 6 ports on it.
The top center in the pic is a case drain about 1” hose. On the right you can see a large 1 1/2” hose that is part of the closed system. It can’t be seen here, but there is another large hose below the aluminum block just under the first large hose fitting. Then there are two banjo bolt ports at the lower right. The final port is covered by the aluminum block mentioned earlier.
I made a aluminum block to cover the port on the motor so I could remove the current one for examination.
I put an AN fitting there so I could test or cap this port. I installed a cut off valve on it. To make it easy.
The aluminum block is actually two blocks with holes in them that line up with each other. One block has a selinoid on the end.
I separated the blocks to figure out how this all worked. The top block folds over to mount on the lower block. You can see the hole on the left that doesn’t have an o-ring doesn’t have a corresponding hole in the bottom block. (Not used)
I tested all the holes to see how they connected. I drew a shitty diagram of the schematic.
I really screwed up the drawing, but maybe you can follow. I’ll give you some help.
All the holes with X’s on them are mount holes and have nothing to do with the flow.
Port “1” is an AN nipple on the back side of the top block. It goes through that block and lines up with the “1” hole on the lower block and joins the banjo bolt fitting on the left. It goes no where else and has nothing to do with the selinoid.
The “A” and “B” holes are joined at the selinoid end. If the selinoid is energized, they are separated. The “A” hole lines up with the hole in the motor and the “B” hole joins up with the other banjo bolt fitting.
The AN nipple on the top of the block has a “P” stamped next to it.
The motor has a “P” cast into the housing right next to the banjo bolt fitting that is directly connected through the blocks to this AN fitting. I assumed that giving it pilot pressure would do something. I figured the other banjo bolt fitting would be a return. It still could be. In my tests so far, I ran that return back to the resivour and blocked off the port on the side of the motor.
Today I put a pressure gauge on that port.
I ran the motor and even drove the machine a few feet and the pressure never moved. (Yes, I had the cut off open)
Not sure what my next step should be. I tested the selinoids. One works and one doesn’t. I guess I could hook the selinoid on one side and see what the effect is.
In reality the you need to put pressure to the swash plate actuator piston and relieve it to tank when you don't want it.
Unless I misunderstood this is a fuck around you at the moment, a working high/low speed should be sufficient.
WaterH
Well-known member
So I got a skid made. It’s actually more of a hose holder. Keeps them up out of the way.
The tube you see hanging down on the left is the exhaust flex pipe. That is temporary.
I’ve never had a seat in this thing. I had a rear seat from the Bronco that I built the HEMTT out of. It’s been sitting in my garage for 15 years. I kept meaning to take it to the scrap yard. Well, not only does it fit in the Vulcan, it fit great.
It’s cool because it mounts from the front and tilts forward. That’s good because I need access back there.
I can’t wait to drive it from the seat. The remote reaches, so good enough for the time being.
The tube you see hanging down on the left is the exhaust flex pipe. That is temporary.
I’ve never had a seat in this thing. I had a rear seat from the Bronco that I built the HEMTT out of. It’s been sitting in my garage for 15 years. I kept meaning to take it to the scrap yard. Well, not only does it fit in the Vulcan, it fit great.
It’s cool because it mounts from the front and tilts forward. That’s good because I need access back there.
I can’t wait to drive it from the seat. The remote reaches, so good enough for the time being.
Harold Biondo
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2024
- Member Number
- 8189
- Messages
- 5
I just found this thread, and I was almost overjoyed to find out the Excalibur survived. It was on my list of historic military vehicles destroyed in recent times; everything indicated that it went in 2016 along with the other vehicles scrapped when Parramore Surplus shut down. It sounds like Bonnie Parramore actually saved it, that's a miracle. From what I know this vehicle should be serial number 3, the last of the three Excalibur prototypes.
I'm glad someone bought it and even got it running again. I bet it will be really impressive to see it moving at 100%.
It worries me that the most recent update is you cutting the roof off. I sure hope that you saved the roof pieces so the vehicle can be restored when you're done with it. I can't tell you what to do with it of course. I can only ask from the bottom of my heart that you treat it as the piece of history that it is and don't mutilate it any futher. It's the last of its kind, it deserves to make it to a museum.
If I had any documentation for it I would give it to you, but since the Standard Manufacturing truck and the Excalibur were a private venture, which the Army never really wanted anyway, there's not going to be any technical documentation on the government side of things. I'm sure that when the company went out of business they threw away all of their files, that's the way it always goes. There may be a brochure and a manual in the US National Archives, but I've never come across it in all my time working there. It's too recent anyway, files from the 80s generally aren't available yet.
I'm glad someone bought it and even got it running again. I bet it will be really impressive to see it moving at 100%.
It worries me that the most recent update is you cutting the roof off. I sure hope that you saved the roof pieces so the vehicle can be restored when you're done with it. I can't tell you what to do with it of course. I can only ask from the bottom of my heart that you treat it as the piece of history that it is and don't mutilate it any futher. It's the last of its kind, it deserves to make it to a museum.
If I had any documentation for it I would give it to you, but since the Standard Manufacturing truck and the Excalibur were a private venture, which the Army never really wanted anyway, there's not going to be any technical documentation on the government side of things. I'm sure that when the company went out of business they threw away all of their files, that's the way it always goes. There may be a brochure and a manual in the US National Archives, but I've never come across it in all my time working there. It's too recent anyway, files from the 80s generally aren't available yet.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
Plot twist 
WaterH
Well-known member
Yes, Bonnie Parramore was the head teller at the bank where my wife and I did business. I don’t know if she saved it. She just hadn’t done anything with it after her husband died. I was the only person to enquirer about it.
On the front, there is a V, and then either a 3 or an 8. (Can’t really tell) there are pics of at least five of these in this thread. I was told by an engineer that worked on the project that there was 20 made all told. I know of one other in Alaska. That one is much better shape than mine.
I have kept most of the parts I took off of it, but I don’t really see anyone restoring it. Everything is in pretty bad shape that I took off. Only the running gear hard parts seemed to be really stout.
Anyways, thanks for posting. It’s nice to hear from someone that actually knows something about it.
Harold Biondo
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2024
- Member Number
- 8189
- Messages
- 5
I haven't read through the whole thread. You're right there's at least 4 gun carriers in that one picture, hm. I'm under the impression 20 vehicles meant 20 built by Standard Mfg in total, including the trucks, the Excaliburs, and the other test rigs.
The vehicle in Alaska, is it that truck that was in the video you linked, or do you mean another gun carrier like yours?
It may look rough, but it's in a hell of a lot better shape than most abandoned prototypes (picture of my one-off cargo tractor for comparison, you've got a much easier job when it comes to necessary body fabrication). The fact that you've got it most of the way running again is already a good start on a restoration. Most of what's missing looks to be the superstructure that accommodates the gun. I know of people who have M167 Vulcans, so they can be gotten, not that that's even necessary to have a vehicle worthy of displaying.
The vehicle in Alaska, is it that truck that was in the video you linked, or do you mean another gun carrier like yours?
It may look rough, but it's in a hell of a lot better shape than most abandoned prototypes (picture of my one-off cargo tractor for comparison, you've got a much easier job when it comes to necessary body fabrication). The fact that you've got it most of the way running again is already a good start on a restoration. Most of what's missing looks to be the superstructure that accommodates the gun. I know of people who have M167 Vulcans, so they can be gotten, not that that's even necessary to have a vehicle worthy of displaying.
Attachments
WaterH
Well-known member
I don’t know about the make up of the 20 trucks. Could be like you say. I didn’t realize they were specific. That cargo hauler you have is cool. I like these things as lawn ornaments. lol. That’s what I bought this for. I never dreamed I would get it running.
WaterH
Well-known member
So took it for another spin. A lot nicer with seats.
It doesn’t slow down when going up hill.
Of course I didn’t have seat beats, but I don’t think it could turn over on this hill.
I tested some different configurations of plumbing to the front motor. Still no control of it.
When I got back to the the shop, I noticed the air cleaner was gone. I had it sitting on the right fender. I found it out in the field. Of course, I ran over it.
I wanted to put it back on after I got it running good. Life sucks.
Maybe I can pound it back into shape. I was just thinking about cleaning it up and painting it the other day.
Next to his big brother.
For having much smaller tires, it has good ground clearance.
It doesn’t slow down when going up hill.
Of course I didn’t have seat beats, but I don’t think it could turn over on this hill.
I tested some different configurations of plumbing to the front motor. Still no control of it.
When I got back to the the shop, I noticed the air cleaner was gone. I had it sitting on the right fender. I found it out in the field. Of course, I ran over it.
I wanted to put it back on after I got it running good. Life sucks.
Maybe I can pound it back into shape. I was just thinking about cleaning it up and painting it the other day.
Next to his big brother.
For having much smaller tires, it has good ground clearance.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
You can fix that air cleaner, if you can build that HEMTT
WaterH
Well-known member
Ok, I little win today. I hooked the pilot pressure line direct to the motors instead of through the joy stick. Then I looped the second line around through a valve and into the motor housing. This basically gives me the same thing as what was there, but I have a manual valve instead of the selinoid valve.
I started the engine and I first cracked the pressure line at the motor. Once I had hydro fluid coming out, I tightened it. Now I put it in reverse and started backing up. After traveling maybe 50 feet, I closed the manual valve that I installed. Slight change in tone and the truck started turning. It wasn’t turning fast, but it was turning smooth. If I open the valve, it goes straight again, all very smoothly. I tried it going forward and it works the same. When I close that valve, that side is going a little faster.
I only have the setup on one side and I only have low range right now. But I suppose if I get both sides like that, the machine will speed up some when I close both valves. I can still steer by opening the side I want to turn to. Also when I have it in high range and both valves closed, maybe it will be doing a decent speed. The high range really sucked before because it was so jerky when I shut down the whole side to turn. Now that I can turn smooth, it will be a lot nicer.
I’m going to need fittings to get it all hooked up, so that test will have to wait. I still don’t see this thing going 45 mph as advertised. If I could do 20, I would be happy.
I started the engine and I first cracked the pressure line at the motor. Once I had hydro fluid coming out, I tightened it. Now I put it in reverse and started backing up. After traveling maybe 50 feet, I closed the manual valve that I installed. Slight change in tone and the truck started turning. It wasn’t turning fast, but it was turning smooth. If I open the valve, it goes straight again, all very smoothly. I tried it going forward and it works the same. When I close that valve, that side is going a little faster.
I only have the setup on one side and I only have low range right now. But I suppose if I get both sides like that, the machine will speed up some when I close both valves. I can still steer by opening the side I want to turn to. Also when I have it in high range and both valves closed, maybe it will be doing a decent speed. The high range really sucked before because it was so jerky when I shut down the whole side to turn. Now that I can turn smooth, it will be a lot nicer.
I’m going to need fittings to get it all hooked up, so that test will have to wait. I still don’t see this thing going 45 mph as advertised. If I could do 20, I would be happy.
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ThePanzerFuhrer
The Rock Breaker God
Solenoid man check your spelling please 
WaterH
Well-known member
Solenoid man check your spelling please
Potato, pototo, tomato, tomoto.
Will Scarlet
The universe is vast...
- Joined
- May 20, 2020
- Member Number
- 766
- Messages
- 1,660
WaterH
Well-known member
I rigged a throttle up on this thing along time ago when I was still trying to get the diesel running. Very crude bent aluminum bracket that could be set by hand when leaning over the engine.
I really wanted a throttle up in the cab for additional testing. I looked for a push pull cable at some hardware stores. All the lawn mower styles were too short. When I was building the HEMTT, I ordered custom made ones that were really nice. The only problem with them is you always order the wrong length and can’t return them. So I didn’t really feel like ordering one for this because I might want to change it again in the future.
Than it hit me, I had several “wrong” cables from the HEMTT up on my parts rack. Pulled one down and made some crude brackets again for the ends.
I put a boat type throttle in the cab, but I might be changing this to a pedal later.
I have a couple questions for those in the know. Does the 6.2 Detroit have a governor to protect it from over reving?
Also, does anyone know if this battery shut off is rated for starting current?
It came on the Vulcan, but I don’t remember if it was a “cut all power” kind of thing. The back side has some pretty beefy lugs.
It would be kind of nice to use it on this since there’s a place in the floor allready. The floor fits good also. Some extra holes, but I don’t got to make it again.
I really wanted a throttle up in the cab for additional testing. I looked for a push pull cable at some hardware stores. All the lawn mower styles were too short. When I was building the HEMTT, I ordered custom made ones that were really nice. The only problem with them is you always order the wrong length and can’t return them. So I didn’t really feel like ordering one for this because I might want to change it again in the future.
Than it hit me, I had several “wrong” cables from the HEMTT up on my parts rack. Pulled one down and made some crude brackets again for the ends.
I put a boat type throttle in the cab, but I might be changing this to a pedal later.
I have a couple questions for those in the know. Does the 6.2 Detroit have a governor to protect it from over reving?
Also, does anyone know if this battery shut off is rated for starting current?
It came on the Vulcan, but I don’t remember if it was a “cut all power” kind of thing. The back side has some pretty beefy lugs.
It would be kind of nice to use it on this since there’s a place in the floor allready. The floor fits good also. Some extra holes, but I don’t got to make it again.
WaterH
Well-known member
So I got a valve for the high range / low range. I couldn’t seem to get exactly what I wanted even though I thought it was very simple. I just want to have pressure on one side and return on the other. If I operate the valve, it would reverse. How hard could that be. The guy at surplus center said that’s some kind of special valve that they don’t have. Anyways I was able to make one of their standard valves do it. (With some extra plumbing)
Would you believe I ran out of copper tube on this and had to put an extra joint in there. Anyways it fits and works good. I just pull up and I have high range.
I took it for a drive and it was more fun going in high range with a seat. (Riding the fender is tough on the sudden stops)
I did some more investigation on the system and had somewhat of a victory. I couldn’t understand where the 2000 psi pressure for the wheel jacks was supposed to come from. I know I didn’t plug anything on the pumps, so it must be available on a hose. The only hose that had any pressure was the one coming from the third “pilot pump”. I had allready checked it with a pressure guage and it made about 500 psi if I reved the engine up.
I got to looking at that hose and realized that I had it hooked to a manifold when I checked it. I started thinking, maybe the manifold had higher pressure on it and was back feeding the pilot pump so everything was at 500 psi. I took the hose off and put the gauge on the manifold to see if there was any pressure.
Well, that wasn’t exactly the right thing to do. When I attempted to start the machine, the hose from the pilot pump burst. I was lucky the engine didn’t start. I got sprayed just cranking the engine. That hose was in bad shape, but it was fine for all my other testing when it was hooked to the manifold. I assume the manifold was an open path to the resivour through the case drains.
It was then I realized that the pilot pump might make more than 500 psi if it had any load on it. So I hooked the guage to it with a valve and line that went to the resivour. I started the engine with the valve wide open. It was pumping fluid like crazy through the 1/4” line. When I started to close the valve, the pressure quickly went up past a 1000 psi at idle and I wasn’t even closed completely. I was scared to close it with my stupid valve because it’s not rated for that.
Now I have some more parts coming to plumb this better. (And safer)
I may figure this out yet.
Would you believe I ran out of copper tube on this and had to put an extra joint in there. Anyways it fits and works good. I just pull up and I have high range.
I took it for a drive and it was more fun going in high range with a seat. (Riding the fender is tough on the sudden stops)
I did some more investigation on the system and had somewhat of a victory. I couldn’t understand where the 2000 psi pressure for the wheel jacks was supposed to come from. I know I didn’t plug anything on the pumps, so it must be available on a hose. The only hose that had any pressure was the one coming from the third “pilot pump”. I had allready checked it with a pressure guage and it made about 500 psi if I reved the engine up.
I got to looking at that hose and realized that I had it hooked to a manifold when I checked it. I started thinking, maybe the manifold had higher pressure on it and was back feeding the pilot pump so everything was at 500 psi. I took the hose off and put the gauge on the manifold to see if there was any pressure.
Well, that wasn’t exactly the right thing to do. When I attempted to start the machine, the hose from the pilot pump burst. I was lucky the engine didn’t start. I got sprayed just cranking the engine. That hose was in bad shape, but it was fine for all my other testing when it was hooked to the manifold. I assume the manifold was an open path to the resivour through the case drains.
It was then I realized that the pilot pump might make more than 500 psi if it had any load on it. So I hooked the guage to it with a valve and line that went to the resivour. I started the engine with the valve wide open. It was pumping fluid like crazy through the 1/4” line. When I started to close the valve, the pressure quickly went up past a 1000 psi at idle and I wasn’t even closed completely. I was scared to close it with my stupid valve because it’s not rated for that.
Now I have some more parts coming to plumb this better. (And safer)
I may figure this out yet.